Comment by Aurornis
8 hours ago
The hardware description languages (HDL) used in chip development are like programming languages. The existing models understand them and can do a lot with them. You don’t need to have separate, specialty models designed for this work to use LLMs in chip design workflows.
Design verification also involves a lot of traditional programming which benefits from LLMs.
So it’s not meaningless at all. You could download some of the open source chip design software today and the LLMs could even help you get started on your own tiny chip if you are so interested.
I tried making a button using Claude entirely (including the 3D printed enclosure) and it effed up pretty hard with the traces and the header spacing. The project was a big red arcade button that plays the "ah-my-groin.mp3" when pushed (from Simpsons). It did cool work on saving battery life, and the 3d enclosure was awesome, but yeah, I'm convinced I'd have to do another version or two of the custom chip until it came back right. I used a Blender MCP for the 3d modeling. I used a KiCAD MCP server for the chip design/validation.
I think we're not there yet. I've been meaning to look at this flux.ai to see if it has the prompts/workflow worked out better than what I was able to cobble together in a few hours. Maybe Alteryx's MCP server would have been better. I'll try that this weekend for another board I've got.
> I tried making a button using Claude entirely (including the 3D printed enclosure) and it effed up pretty hard with the traces and the header spacing.
PCB design and 3D CAD design are different topics.
Hardware Description Languages are closer to programming languages than CAD. Look at some Verilog to get an idea - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verilog
Right. KiCAD for PCB design. Blender for 3D CAD. Oh, are you saying I should have used something other than the KiCAD MCP server for better results?
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PCB layout is an art, and doesn't seem to map well to LLMs (I tried for shits and giggles recently). Claude in general, kind of like code, does a lot of redundant belt and suspenders stuff in the schematics it generates (if it can generate them at all). It's one of those things that's really not there yet outside of the simplest designs.
DeepPCB has an AI autorouter [1] that uses reinforcment learning and works really well. Recently they also released an AI agent that analyzes your board, proposes plans and can route your board for you [2]. They have a KiCad plugin [3] and you can try it for free.
[1] https://deeppcb.ai/reinforcement-learning-pcb-routing-explai... [2] https://deeppcb.ai/cooper/ [3] https://deeppcb.ai/deeppcb-kicad-plugin-ai-pcb-routing/
Disclaimer: I work at InstaDeep, the company behind DeepPCB, but I don't work on this product.
The question isn’t whether or not they employed a particular tool, the question is how big of an impact did it have.
Most HDL code is locked up behind corporate firewalls and not available as training data. While LLMs can handle it to an extent there's a lot of room for improvement. I'll bet that OpenAI and their competitors are racing to license this IP from major hardware vendors in order to compete in the chip design vertical.
Does it work better when using compiler based ecosystem (e.g. https://github.com/llvm/circt)
There is quite a lot of Verilog/SystemVerilog and VHDL code in the wild. And hardware description language code is very simple and straightforward relative to programming code.
And the two things that take up VAST amounts of time in ASIC design are testbenches and timing closure.
A LOT of hardware design is testbenches to verify things. AI is REALLY GOOD at generating things like testbenches. And nobody really cares if the quality of your testbench code sucks as long as it validates what it claims to.
I don't know how good AI is at timing closure, but I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if it is pretty good at it up to the physical point. That's lots of textual output which you can put a constraint on.
Everything involving physical design, though, tends to be a disaster waiting to happen if you let AI loose on it.
This reminds me of the dude on youtube building a chip fab in his shed.
One day we can design our own pcb with chips, hardware and other io. Companies will accept these as files and you can collect your pcb the same day. I think in China they are doing this already
hasn't pcbway been doing this for years?
> The existing models understand them and can do a lot with them.
In my experience they are not especially good at SystemVerilog. There's a lot of knowledge about it that is locked behind paywalls and it's very niche.
My guess is the "from scratch" here is quite the exaggeration. Otherwise why did they need Broadcom?
Doesn’t Broadcom bring a lot more to bear here than just Verilog? Including relationships with the actual fabricators.
Not having a free toolchain that can actually handle the real language has probably been pretty bad on the downstream public knowledgebase. Hopefully Verilator can eventually close that hole, and there can be more high-quality designs and codebases incorporated into future models. Claude is at least good enough to write SV that triggered a compiler crash or two. :)