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Comment by Matl

10 days ago

> It's hardly a declaration of fealty

As a European, the way I see it, Europe declared fealty to the US and relinquished its sovereignty a long time ago, sadly.

Also, the way these agreements tend to work is that you agree that you won't source from the 'enemy side' i.e. China. It works this way for NATO and it will work the same way here.

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Matl

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fauigerzigerk  10 days ago

>As a European, the way I see it, Europe declared fealty to the US and relinquished its sovereignty a long time ago, sadly.

No such declaration was ever made. Europe has just failed to compete.

  • Matl  10 days ago

    > No such declaration was ever made

    Of course not, there's no need for a 'declaration' that would be a hard sell to the European public. Actions is all that matters.

  • gunsle  9 days ago

    Facts, but the Europeans, tankies, and America haters here will never admit it. Europe sold out its industries for social programs. Not our fault you guys chose social safety nets over industry.

    • dadoum  9 days ago

      I don't think this narrative stands, industry and social programs coexisted for a very long time. I actually believe the opposite. It sacrificed its industry for intra-EU fairness and integration. A lot of industries were very reliant on gov grants and other state social programs that have got scarcer as EU gained power.

      > Facts, but the Europeans, tankies, and America haters here will never admit it.

      When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

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    • Matl  9 days ago

      I think Americans like yourself greatly underestimate what advantages having a unified language, legal system etc. brings. It may seem to many Americans that the EU is unified but it's much less so than you'd expect.

      Social programs have little to do with it. You can have both industry and social programs if you just choose not to start random wars of aggression in the US too, something for which you need $1.5T apparently.

      China has both more industry and plenty of social programs as an example.

      1 reply →

  • joe_mamba  10 days ago

    EU didn't fail because it never even tried.

    Nobody in EU ever tried to build a domestic CPU that was even remotely comparable to what Intel and AMD, for them to have had the opportunity to fail.(No, ARM is IP not a builder)

    Nobody in EU ever tried to build a domestic GPU that was even remotely comparable to Nvidia, ATI or 3Dfx for them to have failed.

    We just let the US companies fight it out, see who could build the best products, and become forever customers to them and then 20 year later wonder how come their economy grew 2x as much.

    • fauigerzigerk  10 days ago

      >EU didn't fail because it never even tried.

      Of course the EU tries to compete with the US and in some industries it has done so successfully (e.g pharma or aviation). EU companies have also tried to compete in information technology - with some limited or temporary success.

      ARM was founded in the EU. DeepMind was founded in the EU. Olivetti and Siemens had CPU designs and made computers. Nokia once dominated mobile. Ericsson was/is a leading telecom equipment maker. Skype used to be one of the most successful messaging apps. Spotify is a success. ASML is a success.

      A certain Finnish university student started the operating system that now dominates the cloud, but for some reason I really do not understand, EU cloud providers like OVHCloud have failed to compete with the likes of AWS, Azure and GCP. And now the AI wave has completely washed over Europe.

      The cloud situation is a mystery to me. Nothing stops EU companies like OVHCloud from competing there. Any anticompetitive behaviour is a very weak excuse. Europe can't even compete with something as mediocre as Palantir. Now everyone is calling for protectionism. Ridiculous.

      AI is easier to understand. It requires huge capital investments. The US has far superior capital markets and far healthier attitudes towards risk taking. Europe's failure here was easy to predict but the consequences could be dire.

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