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Comment by sciencejerk

5 days ago

I had to Google "man-o-sphere". Is it particularly more dangerous or toxic than other identity-based activist communities? Genuinely curious to know

32 comments

sciencejerk

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grey-area  5 days ago

Yes, a lot of it involves denigrating women and an entitled and very rigid attitude towards the male place in society (alphas etc).

This is incredibly toxic for young men growing up and the women they interact with.

Some of the more prominent proponents are actual pimps (the Tate brothers).

  • elcritch  5 days ago

    How is that different than pervasive pornography though? Many young boys now think it’s normal to ask girls for sexual acts before having ever kissed a girl.

    • tsimionescu  4 days ago

      It is, as pornography is about sexual acts, while the manosphere is discussing the role they believe men and women should play in all aspects of life, not just sex and romance. They believe and teach that women shouldn't be managers, knowledge workers, professors, politicians, shouldn't have a right to vote (at least not differently from the man who essentially owns them) etc.

      Pornography may give some people some wrong ideas about sex and romantic relationships, might even instill some level of implicit misoginy in certain straight men, but I'm pretty sure you won't get the idea that women should be allowed in Parliament from watching too much porn.

    • squidbeak  4 days ago

      > Many young boys now think it’s normal to ask girls for sexual acts before having ever kissed a girl.

      This is a common media talking point, but are there any hard figures for this 'many'? The type you're describing existed when I was young, long before the internet. My impression of boys and young men today is that they are generally just as decent, cautious, respectful and idealistic as they ever were - but that a small crude and unpleasant minority taints the reputation of the whole generation.

      3 replies →

    • scott_w  4 days ago

      Huge gap between producing material that depicts (presumably) consensual sexual activities between adults and telling young boys to commit rape.

      4 replies →

    • aussieguy1234  4 days ago

      The Manosphere is going to convince the impressionable young boys and men they are entitled to be treated in the same way as the men in the porn videos, consent be dammed. This is the main problem.

  • AlexandrB  4 days ago

    [flagged]

    • Tadpole9181  4 days ago

      I want to be excruciatingly clear: Andrew Tate is a sex trafficker that tells millions of impressionable boys they are owed sex and that women should not be permitted to vote or hold positions of influence, and that they cannot have platonic relationships with women.

      The word incel, on the other hand, describes men who are disgustingly behaved and as a result are unable to have romantic relationships.

      These are not, in any way, the same thing. This is NOT an example of horseshoe theory.

ACCount37  5 days ago

Maybe? "Identity-based activist communities" are incredibly toxic as a rule.

Maybe there's lasting harm from engaging in them early. Or maybe it's better to get exposed to them early in your life, so that you have time to figure out why you don't want anything to do with them.

Either way, it seems pretty clear that preventing children and teens from engaging them is a nonstarter. You can't get anywhere close to consensus on "this is harmful and should be banned" because, guess what, someone's entire identity is going to be built around such communities.

  • doginasuit  5 days ago

    I think it is safe to rule out early engagement as a positive factor.

    • tsimionescu  4 days ago

      Early engagement maybe, but early exposure, especially to communities that you happen to not be attracted to, may be a net positive.

doginasuit  5 days ago

I would say what sets it apart is the undercurrent of anger and grievance combined with the self destructive beliefs that are prevalent in the community. It's men and boys who struggle to find acceptance and belonging, maybe even for reasons that are initially sympathetic. But instead of healthy self-reflection and feedback, they find a distorted understanding of themselves and masculinity that only reinforces their isolation.

  • philipallstar  4 days ago

    This is just a caricature. It's like saying all women's spaces are bad because some female influencers tell their massive followings that men should pay for expensive shopping trips on the first date. This mischaracterisation through cherry picking is destructive.

jrm4  4 days ago

"Identity based activist communities" feels like a hilariously ham-fisted attempt to connect together extremely different groups.