Comment by kuschku
5 hours ago
Being an administrator is being root. That's the entire point. That whatever restrictions an app has set, I can override it if I need to.
> You can build and sign the OS with your own keys, without undermining the security of your device, and adding whatever functionality you want with the principle of least privilege.
Building a version of the OS and flashing that removes everything currently on the device.
So if I ever need to overrule a restriction an app has set, I must have already granted myself the power to do so ahead of time.
Which means there are only two viable paths forward:
1. If I assume that software is perfect, and I will never need to overrule a restriction software sets, I can use stock Android or Graphene OS
2. If I assume that at some point in the future I might someday need to overrule any restriction, I must grant myself root permissions from the start.
Also, I don't need to grant root permissions to random apps.
All that's needed is for the adb and the native file manager to be able to enter sudo mode and read any file, so that in worst case I can always pull all data off the device, and flash a version of the OS with my changes instead.
If we want to go one step further, and want to apply the practical definition of the FSF rights of free software, you should also be able to replace any file using the builtin file manager in sudo mode.
You dont have the ability to guarantee you have overridden anything. The integrity of the OS cannot be verified and anything with root can lie to you that it was revoked. It does not put power in your hands.
Installing your own build does wipe the device when you unlock the bootloader, yes, but updating it with a locked bootloader does not. It would be a one time transfer if you have official images already installed.
Your paths forward are a false dichotomy. These are not the only 2 options. You can simply update your build with the changes you want.
The randomness of an app is irrelevant and apps need to jump through significantly less loops to obtain root access without your input. And even if they didnt do that, and you permitted root instead, the app can lie about you revoking it later in either case.
This is blind ideology over safety and real ownership. Root is a hacky shortcut for proper functionality, and is not a prerequisite to ownership in the slightest.
> Your paths forward are a false dichotomy. These are not the only 2 options. You can simply update your build with the changes you want.
Okay, so once I install grapheneOS, how do I update it with my own custom build while keeping my data intact?
> You dont have the ability to guarantee you have overridden anything. The integrity of the OS cannot be verified and anything with root can lie to you that it was revoked. It does not put power in your hands.
You haven't read anything of what I've written, it's incredible.
You're continuing to use the term "root" to mean granting full power to random apps.
I'm using the term "root" in Linux terminology.
It's not advisable to run random software as root, no matter what platform you are on.
But the OS' native file explorer and shell, in this case com.android.documentsui/com.android.files and adb, should allow the user to authorize themselves as root and read/write to any file.
You would install your own build of GrapheneOS. Not the official images.
Its not advisable to run anything as root, at all. Or expose access to it in any form.
You can make userdebug builds to access a form of root that doesnt undermine the entire security model, in ADB. Afaik this lets you access apps internal directories but is not recommended for production devices.
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