The EPA first issued health advisories around PFASs in 2009. Why didn’t these folks file this petition sometime during the 12 years since then where it likely would’ve gotten a more favorable reception?
> Why didn’t these folks file this petition sometime during the 12 years since then where it likely would’ve gotten a more favorable reception?
Because then The Uniparty would look bad.
Instead, we can prop up the illusion of democracy and point fingers at "the other side" of good cop / bad cop while elites poison everybody more. We wouldn't want people living too far beyond their working years, after all.
Ya, everything is a conspiracy. It couldn't be that the FDA has been working on PFAS related issues for 6 years now and this petition was more to speed things along in a way that would force progress.
Edit: This also helps others who are in accidents, car wrecks, have Cancer, etc. Yes, we pass on the PFAS to others, but the immediate need for blood is more urgent than the potential long term impacts of PFAS.
Another issue is that sewage sludge and "biosolids", unknowingly containing PFAS, is/was being used as farm fertilizer, causing some farms to have to be written off for food production. I would expect many more farms in the future to be found with PFAS soil levels exceeding what is safe to produce food with. The only way to find out is to test.
I have no issue repurposing biological waste as fertilizer, that’s fine. But sewage is not just biological waste. It’s got all sorts of other shit in it that’s not suitable for reentry into the food chain. This isn’t a practice that should be allowed anywhere. It’s not like they can’t grow crops without it, they’re just gaming costs.
I can't believe that we are still using sewage sludge as fertilizer. People dump anything down the drain. I remember this being an issue 30-40 years ago with PCBs.
It was always a farce that only incredibly stupid people fell for. I mean, even their most "well meaning" gestures were promoting saturated fat, unpasteurized milk and tallow. Those already are just spectacularly ignorant, destructive recommendations going against every bit of science.
Now add that they've basically abolished the EPA (want to power your new data center with a phalanx of smog spewing generators running on bunker oil? Eh, go nuts!) and legalized some highly cancerous pesticides to be used on food crops.
Trump a few days ago pardoned some people who he claims were "fixing their cars": They were actually running a commercial operation removing emissions systems on diesel heavy equipment (a so-called "delete"), and the impact of "rolling coal" is overwhelming and hugely negative, making a single vehicle pollute more than hundreds. But hey, what's the harm in particulate and NOx, besides lung damage, worker health and reduced lifespans?
This vile, corrupt administration hates Americans and wants to see you all die. There is no other possible interpretation. It is simply astonishing that there is some subset of profoundly gullible and/or unintelligent clowns who still support this busted kleptocracy. What a disgrace.
Obviously you're right, but none of this stuff matters to the dudes who worship him. As long as he keeps making the people they hate angry they'll support him, even at their own expense
Fresh new account demanding that people do "deeper research".
The EPA is slow-walking this to avoid taking any action, and the article is completely accurate. It sounds like you got "tricked" by some grifters and imbeciles who are enriching themselves and making everything much stupider and more dangerous.
This is not isolated. Just a few months ago this admin cancelled Biden restrictions on PFAS in drinking water, fully removing four contaminants from having any limits at all, and giving another two years for drinking water to hit massively relaxed rules for two more.
Trying to find ways to apologize for this kind of hits a point of comedy at some point.
Not surprising at all. What are "action levels" supposed to do? It's basically a helpful suggestion to take action, but you don't have to. FDA obviously doesn't care about the well-being of anyone.
The article fails to mention risk and the amounts that create those. In typical journalist fashion it just emphasizes the word “chemical” and other scary framings.
True. The risk is heavily downplayed, since the health effects manifest in decades and can be blamed on lifestyle factors, while the amounts causing health issues are in the order of parts per trillion.
Yes. But of course "healthier" is describing the health of brain worms. On the bright side, this probably indicates that the reactionaries' pushes to lower the intelligence of the population are reaching a point of diminishing returns, as they've now had to turn to parasites to continue the trend.
> The Guardian, which is already at the limits of reliability
Based on what, exactly? Disagreeing with a publication does not make them unreliable. The Guardian's journalism is consistently award-winning and rates highly on credibility. The Guardian's opinion section is openly centre-left, though I suppose Americans would consider this to be some sort of comically ultra-left-wing communist point-of-view given the state of politics in the country.
Simple PFAS regulations have been put in place in Europe[0] and the FDA has access to the same studies and information as the EU bodies. The science has been performed. The lawsuit was to push for regulation because the FDA has been dragging their feet for years[1] and refusing to act.
Edit: Also, note that this account was created today and has made 3 comments, 2 of which are taking potshots at The Guardian. This sort of astroturfing has no place on HN.
Please actually respond to the comment instead of whatever this is. It looks reasonable enough to me and I trust the FDA more than The Guardian or the "Tucson Environmental Justice Task Force".
No Tylenol for y'all, but I'll shout the whole bar another round of PFAS!
> They have been linked to cancer, birth defects, decreased immunity, high cholesterol, kidney disease and a range of other serious health problems. They are dubbed “forever chemicals” because they can persist for thousands of years in the environment, and are designed to be indestructible.
But _not_ autism! Autism is the great evil we have chosen as our individual health enemy. I don't see autism listed, you may pass.
I think you mean PFOS and not PFAS, the relationship of cancers and health risks is linked to PFOS, but not PFAS in general at this time.
PFOS in consumer-facing products were also majority phased out back in 2015.
>The agency said it plans to set less non-binding “action levels” that do not require contaminated food to be removed from shelves. “Tolerance levels”, or limits, make it illegal to sell food contaminated beyond a set threshold.
From the FDA
>Action levels and tolerances represent limits at or above which FDA will take legal action to remove products from the market.
Typical junk tier rage bait journalism you can expect from the guardian.
Your comment does not give a correct impression of FDA's position here.
Action levels are correctly described by the article and not by whatever FDA quote you provided, which seems to imply the FDA is required to take action to remove products. Surpassing action levels do not require FDA to remove products from the market.
The EPA first issued health advisories around PFASs in 2009. Why didn’t these folks file this petition sometime during the 12 years since then where it likely would’ve gotten a more favorable reception?
Because the majority of Americans are too stupid and too lazy; they won't bother until the threat is literally killing them.
I feel like most people hadn’t heard about them until a couple of years ago.
The timeline is wild. It took Patagonia like a decade to actually make PFAS free stuff.
> Why didn’t these folks file this petition sometime during the 12 years since then where it likely would’ve gotten a more favorable reception?
Because then The Uniparty would look bad.
Instead, we can prop up the illusion of democracy and point fingers at "the other side" of good cop / bad cop while elites poison everybody more. We wouldn't want people living too far beyond their working years, after all.
Ya, everything is a conspiracy. It couldn't be that the FDA has been working on PFAS related issues for 6 years now and this petition was more to speed things along in a way that would force progress.
But no, everything is a big conspiracy.
Doing whole blood donations seems to significantly reduce PFAS in the blood. Here's one paper:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...
Edit: This also helps others who are in accidents, car wrecks, have Cancer, etc. Yes, we pass on the PFAS to others, but the immediate need for blood is more urgent than the potential long term impacts of PFAS.
Bloodletting making a comeback? And having actual benefits this time?
There's kinda a significant difference between bloodletting and blood donation.
For starters, you're not supposed to donate blood when you're sick.
The other being the quantity. A donation is 1-2 pints. Wikipedia lists bloodletting as easily 3 pints [1].
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodletting#Use_in_the_1600s_...
me to the plague doctors: we are SO back
My girlfriend accidentally told the donation center she went to Mexico, and they banned her from donating for four years.
Apparently you'd only go to Mexico to eat brain tacos and share needles with cows. Surely there's a better way to filter out risky blood.
Yes... travel, tattoos, drug use and sexual behavior can and should disqualify a person from donating blood.
12 replies →
I was banned roughly the same time for being in the US. I guess its mostly so they don't need to check for unexpected things.
1 reply →
Sounds like a wild party.
Aren’t we just donating the PFAS to potentially sicker patients?
Do blook banks have a way of filtering out PFAS? Or are we giving each other forever chemicals through blood donations?
A life saving blood transfusion or avoid forever chemicals likely already in my body, hmmm what to choose...
1 reply →
Not without filtering other things we need.
EPA already set a Maximum Contaminant Level of 4.0 ppt. That's why they moved most PFAS production to China.
In drinking water, yes. And the EPA coordinated a "voluntary" phase-out of PFAS in packaging, but it is not enforced.
Is there a limit in food, which is what this petition was about?
Another issue is that sewage sludge and "biosolids", unknowingly containing PFAS, is/was being used as farm fertilizer, causing some farms to have to be written off for food production. I would expect many more farms in the future to be found with PFAS soil levels exceeding what is safe to produce food with. The only way to find out is to test.
Maine listened to farmers and confronted the PFAS crisis - > The practice of spreading sludge as a soil amendment has been a common practice in Maine and across the nation for decades. Land application of sludge material occurred long before there was knowledge that it may contain PFAS or the health implications of PFAS.
EPA Fact Sheet: Draft Sewage Sludge Risk Assessment for PFOA and PFOS: Information for Farmers - https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2025-01/fact-shee... - January 2025
EPA Basic Information about Biosolids:appplication
32 minutes ago
SoftTalker
33 minutes ago
I have no issue repurposing biological waste as fertilizer, that’s fine. But sewage is not just biological waste. It’s got all sorts of other shit in it that’s not suitable for reentry into the food chain. This isn’t a practice that should be allowed anywhere. It’s not like they can’t grow crops without it, they’re just gaming costs.
1 reply →
I can't believe that we are still using sewage sludge as fertilizer. People dump anything down the drain. I remember this being an issue 30-40 years ago with PCBs.
3 replies →
What happened to MAHA?
The mobility scooter industry donated a gold plated fork lift truck to the president and its back to business as usual.
Must be rendered immobile by all that beef tallow.
rendered... i see what you did there ;)
It was always a farce that only incredibly stupid people fell for. I mean, even their most "well meaning" gestures were promoting saturated fat, unpasteurized milk and tallow. Those already are just spectacularly ignorant, destructive recommendations going against every bit of science.
Now add that they've basically abolished the EPA (want to power your new data center with a phalanx of smog spewing generators running on bunker oil? Eh, go nuts!) and legalized some highly cancerous pesticides to be used on food crops.
Trump a few days ago pardoned some people who he claims were "fixing their cars": They were actually running a commercial operation removing emissions systems on diesel heavy equipment (a so-called "delete"), and the impact of "rolling coal" is overwhelming and hugely negative, making a single vehicle pollute more than hundreds. But hey, what's the harm in particulate and NOx, besides lung damage, worker health and reduced lifespans?
This vile, corrupt administration hates Americans and wants to see you all die. There is no other possible interpretation. It is simply astonishing that there is some subset of profoundly gullible and/or unintelligent clowns who still support this busted kleptocracy. What a disgrace.
Obviously you're right, but none of this stuff matters to the dudes who worship him. As long as he keeps making the people they hate angry they'll support him, even at their own expense
What's wrong with unpasteurized milk and beef tallow?
1 reply →
Based on his push ups and chinups, i hoped there would be a national mandate of exercise for children aka recess and gym class.
I'm not usually classified as "incredibly stupid" so your comment is off tone and not aligned with HN's standards of conversation.
[flagged]
Fresh new account demanding that people do "deeper research".
The EPA is slow-walking this to avoid taking any action, and the article is completely accurate. It sounds like you got "tricked" by some grifters and imbeciles who are enriching themselves and making everything much stupider and more dangerous.
This is not isolated. Just a few months ago this admin cancelled Biden restrictions on PFAS in drinking water, fully removing four contaminants from having any limits at all, and giving another two years for drinking water to hit massively relaxed rules for two more.
Trying to find ways to apologize for this kind of hits a point of comedy at some point.
1 reply →
Not surprising at all. What are "action levels" supposed to do? It's basically a helpful suggestion to take action, but you don't have to. FDA obviously doesn't care about the well-being of anyone.
The article fails to mention risk and the amounts that create those. In typical journalist fashion it just emphasizes the word “chemical” and other scary framings.
True. The risk is heavily downplayed, since the health effects manifest in decades and can be blamed on lifestyle factors, while the amounts causing health issues are in the order of parts per trillion.
if a request doesn't come with a minimum $2 Million check attached or crypto transfer, nothing will get done this decade
it's going to be a health and science dark ages for US
I mean what did we expect? This admin’s entire MO has been dismantle or de-fang what little regulatory framework we have left.
Did they really think RFK Jr. was ushering in a healthier, “more natural” America?
Yes. But of course "healthier" is describing the health of brain worms. On the bright side, this probably indicates that the reactionaries' pushes to lower the intelligence of the population are reaching a point of diminishing returns, as they've now had to turn to parasites to continue the trend.
Turns out it's easier to make conspiracies than effective policy. Who knew?
[flagged]
I don't see any forward looking timelines on the page, is this the right link?
> The Guardian, which is already at the limits of reliability
Based on what, exactly? Disagreeing with a publication does not make them unreliable. The Guardian's journalism is consistently award-winning and rates highly on credibility. The Guardian's opinion section is openly centre-left, though I suppose Americans would consider this to be some sort of comically ultra-left-wing communist point-of-view given the state of politics in the country.
Simple PFAS regulations have been put in place in Europe[0] and the FDA has access to the same studies and information as the EU bodies. The science has been performed. The lawsuit was to push for regulation because the FDA has been dragging their feet for years[1] and refusing to act.
[0] https://environment.ec.europa.eu/topics/chemicals/pfas-pollu...
[1] https://www.eenews.net/articles/inside-fdas-forever-chemical...
Edit: Also, note that this account was created today and has made 3 comments, 2 of which are taking potshots at The Guardian. This sort of astroturfing has no place on HN.
+1 couldn't agree more. It's concerning this account is on the top.
[dead]
>The Guardian, which is already at the limits of reliability
Not enough right wing denial of reality for your tastes?
You sound bought. I hope they paid you well.
The FDA were of course were well paid.
Please actually respond to the comment instead of whatever this is. It looks reasonable enough to me and I trust the FDA more than The Guardian or the "Tucson Environmental Justice Task Force".
1 reply →
No Tylenol for y'all, but I'll shout the whole bar another round of PFAS!
> They have been linked to cancer, birth defects, decreased immunity, high cholesterol, kidney disease and a range of other serious health problems. They are dubbed “forever chemicals” because they can persist for thousands of years in the environment, and are designed to be indestructible.
But _not_ autism! Autism is the great evil we have chosen as our individual health enemy. I don't see autism listed, you may pass.
I think you mean PFOS and not PFAS, the relationship of cancers and health risks is linked to PFOS, but not PFAS in general at this time. PFOS in consumer-facing products were also majority phased out back in 2015.
From the article:
>The agency said it plans to set less non-binding “action levels” that do not require contaminated food to be removed from shelves. “Tolerance levels”, or limits, make it illegal to sell food contaminated beyond a set threshold.
From the FDA
>Action levels and tolerances represent limits at or above which FDA will take legal action to remove products from the market.
Typical junk tier rage bait journalism you can expect from the guardian.
You can read the FDA letter itself: https://www.regulations.gov/document/FDA-2023-P-4826-0015
Your comment does not give a correct impression of FDA's position here.
Action levels are correctly described by the article and not by whatever FDA quote you provided, which seems to imply the FDA is required to take action to remove products. Surpassing action levels do not require FDA to remove products from the market.
Here is the FDA document I got the quote from
https://www.regulations.gov/document/FDA-2020-D-1956-0001
This is correct. So much misinformation being spouted here on the spurious grounds that The Guardian is an inaccurate news source.
I can not find it in the FDA list. Is there a newer source?