Comment by Havoc
2 days ago
> Two, I actually don't have any personal criticisms of Jarred
That’s quite a statement to make at the end of a post that seems to contain little else…all just thinly veiled.
Saying someone has „beginner energy“ but reframing it as a faux positive (this person fails and thus learns)
Or saying the grapevine says someone is a „stinky manager“? Basically I’m not saying this person is bad it’s just that I need to bring up on this blog that everyone agrees this person is bad.
All seems to be in very poor taste even if true…
I'm quite confused by this. Is calling someone a "stinky manager" a personal attack? It's funny that we can't differentiate the person from his "job". I work with some shitty managers, but I don't hold it against them on a personal level...
Is calling someone a "stinky manager" a personal attack?
yes!
Stinky manager != stinky person
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It may be hard to separate the work and non-work personas of Jarred in particular. I watched an interview with Jarred where the interviewer asked what he liked to do for fun, what were his hobbies outside of work, and so on. His answer was that he liked working on Bun, and that's all he did. I felt a bit sad for him about it: even Linus T. has hobbies (like diving) and has raised a family.
That said, it isn't necessarily the case that workaholics are bad managers, or that they insist on workaholism in their subordinates. We, generally, don't have access to Andrew's rumornet, we can only go off what Jarred's said publicly.
Inappropriate comparison. Did Linus raise a family by age 30?
How do these statements read to you:
You’re a shitty programmer!
Vs “your code is bad”.
Who is the subject of these sentences?
Or "this code (which you happened to write) is bad" vs "you are a shitty programmer".
Lol. Imagine you were called a stinky employee, and you thinking that's not a personal attack. Would be very noble of you.
You do your job for hours every week, it is undoubtedly part of you. Calling somebody that is very personal and rude. I'm shocked that there are this many people who don't find issue with it. It removes any kindness from the post and turns it all up to 11. I's deeply personal.
Do some of you really talk to others like this and find no issue with it? It's hard to say words like that and not end up with deep schisms and hatred.
Word-engineer hat on:
> The grapevine was (...), and all those grapes contained the juice of the same message: Jarred was a stinky manager.
Per exact words these two are different:
i.e. I might myself not share the sentinment, or not know anything about it, or simply not engage - relay is not an opinion in itself.
You got it wrong.
- I think someone is stinky at this one particular thing
- I spoke with people who said he was stinky at this one particular thing
Those are different than personal attacks
Don’t think there is a clear line to draw as to where the person stops and the professional performance starts when it comes to management because on soft skill it is inherently driven by personal attributes. It’s a bit like a good salesman exudes likeability - it’s integral to the performance of the job and part of the person.
He may well be a shit manager. I have no idea. Either way it’s not something you casually throw out there in a blog like this
> "Oven is going to be a grind, especially the first nine months or so. If work-life balance means a lot of time spent not working, it's probably not a good fit."
Stinky manager is charitable.
Man these are some impressive mental gymnastics... yes its an insult, made very public. It, and the rest of the insults, are very disrespectful and reflects very poorly on andrew and paints him as petty and childish
Are you serious? If I told you to your face "you are shitty at your job" you don't see that as a personal attack?
It depends on what job you're talking about. I've definitely been shitty at several that I've had in my life, if you're talking about those I would simply agree with you.
Sure, but getting a bad perf review then, is that necessarily a personal attack?
Andrew and Jarred and I are all peers in this situation. You get reviews from your peers.
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People who love me have told me many times that I'm "shitty" at something. Guess it dependes where you're coming from.
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> If I told you to your face
That's not even the extent of it. Saying something in private face to face at least keeps it between 2 people. He posted it publicly for the world to see, so it's a massively bigger "attack".
Beginner energy is faux? I relish my beginner energy in all my side projects - I fail and learn. This is completely normal when done safely and without people depending on you. Unlike management.
I didn’t read the beginner energy comment as faux positive at all. In fact Andrew has commented about his own beginner energy just recently and shared some embarrassing forum post he made as a teenager.
Stinky manager.. I could see, but even if his wording was more polite he’d still be criticised just as much, people would just say the personal criticism is “thinly veiled”.
We could argue a lot about how he should have worded himself, but in the end he wanted to (and had all right) to talk about how Jarreds coding and management style affected their professional relationship. According to commenters here on hacker news it seems like he simply is not allowed to talk about that. Even if he goes as far as possible in making it explicit that it’s not personal.
Glad someone noticed this.
And that is the crux of the whole issue here, as explained in https://sipping-delicious-tea.pages.dev/
>I actually accept Jarred for who he is, and actually perceive him as successful by his own standards
This was my favourite part. Nerd drama is entertaining.
It’s an inconsistent statement to make when the rest of the article contains ad hominem attacks like these:
> The grapevine was large and healthy and full of juicy grapes, and all those grapes contained the juice of the same message: Jarred was a stinky manager.
> Jarred was already writing slop well before he had access to LLMs.
This is a weirdly childish post. I enjoy a good post where someone speaks their mind without running it through the corporate speak filter first, but it also gives you insights into how a person thinks and operates. With good leadership you can strip away the corporate filter and the result is still professional, but this article reveals something much less than professional
I think its worthwhile to hear how some self promoting person is actually a piece of crap.