Comment by beej71
1 day ago
This all reminds me about how RealID was vital to secure us from terrorism, and it took 20 years to get it in place... with no significant terrorist actions in that timeframe.
IMHO this level of tracking ain't worth the safety gained. Seems like safety gain is just the excuse at this point.
A national ID system (standard in effectively all European countries) is table stakes for state capacity. I find the RealID opposition baffling.
The major European exception being the UK, which doesn't issue identity cards and somehow manages. (Apparently Andorra doesn't either.)
You might consider it part of the Anglosphere mentality as Canada, the US, Australia, the Bahamas, and New Zealand don't have national ID.
I've never understood the problem that RealID is supposed to solve.
How is it TSA can accept a Veteran Health Identification Card or photo identification card issued by a federally recognized tribe, and the passports from every country in the world, but not a state-issued ID which is not REAL ID-compliant?
> The major European exception being the UK, which doesn't issue identity cards and somehow manages.
You have to bring in loads of other random documents to get a passport, for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44408872
To reliably prove your age (e.g. in a store or a concert venue), you have to get a provisional driving license. If you are not qualified (maybe still disqualified to drive, or eyesight problems), tough luck, I'm not aware of any other government-issued photo ID in the UK. Foreigners previously had BRPs, but they are not issued since 2025, everything is electronic now.
There is also the "PASS" scheme where private providers (like banks) can issue plastic cards with photos, but I've heard they are regularly rejected by various venues as proof of age and/or identity, there is no legal requirement to accept them, just a recommendation. And I can imagine non-UK entities care about these about as much as they do about ISIC. TSA was definitely unhappy when I tried using ISIC about ten years ago for a US domestic flight.
>How is it TSA can accept a Veteran Health Identification Card or photo identification card issued by a federally recognized tribe, and the passports from every country in the world, but not a state-issued ID which is not REAL ID-compliant?
They can only accept them before IDs are implemented of course, as a poor substitute. After national id documents are standardised, it's just them, nothing else counts.
In the US, we like to reduce state capacity. Helps limit the damage bad actors can do when they are in power.
And how's that been working out for you?
Not asking whether "reducing state capacity" helps with that. Asking how's that "reducing" going.
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Except such a federal ID already exists: the Passport Card. Make it free to obtain and mandatory to use.
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This seems deeply delusional at this point.
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Not to mention that to get around RealID with flights, you just have to pay $45 and you're good to go. Since we all know that bad actors don't have access to that sort of money...
Can you expand on this? How can you board a flight without realID for $45?
Have you been to an airport yet since it became mandatory? They actually have signs around stating it. I had similar thoughts as the GP about that.
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It is called "TSA ConfirmID". https://www.tsa.gov/tsaconfirm-id
"If you are unable to provide the required acceptable ID, such as a passport or REAL ID, you can pay a $45 fee to use TSA ConfirmID. TSA will then attempt to verify your identity so you can go through security; however, there is no guarantee TSA can do so."
From https://thepointsguy.com/news/tsa-security-with-confirmid/ :
"TSA agents pull you aside for secondary screenings and to verify your identity. ... After looking me up in his system, [the supervisor] asked me a series of questions only I could answer (previous addresses and that sort of thing)."
And also according to the DHS is apparently now insufficient to prove citizenship to vote, i.e. goal posts moved.
Is your RealID different? I’ve had one for ages and am not a US citizen. I can’t see how it could be proof of citizenship if I, a non-citizen, has one.
Edit: sorry, I misunderstood the post.
I think a better way of describing it would be, someone broke into your house. The police said they'd patrol it, but it would take 20 years to set up. In those 20 years, no-one broke into your house. You might suspect they had other reasons for wanting to patrol outside your house.
The parent post is saying that the officer didn't show up for 20 years, with no burglaries in your neighborhood in between.
Unmentioned is the effect of having officers watch your home the entire time. Which is the tradeoff not worth the hassle for everyone.