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Comment by eli

8 days ago

Seems only fair that if LLMs can use copyrighted data for training then they should be able to use cannot-be-copyrighted output of other LLMs.

But barring the terms of service from forbidding distillation seems like a tough sell. OpenAI shouldn't be allowed to decide what types of customers it wants and doesn't want?

16 comments

eli

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mediaman  8 days ago

This happens all the time. The government can decide legislatively that certain commercial terms are simply unenforceable. Making distillation clauses unenforceable in tort law would be straightforward. They can decide what customers they want to have, but they do not have unfettered rights as to the enforceability of terms governing the relationships between the parties.

  • eli  7 days ago

    I'm not doubting it's possible to pass such a law, I'm doubting that's it's a practical or worthwhile goal.

    The terms of service don't even necessarily matter here. OpenAI could cancel your account for almost any reason, or for no reason at all. They don't particularly need to cite a ToS violation just as a store owner doesn't need to point to a written policy to kick you out of their store.

    If the underlying issue is that LLMs should be regulated as a public good, then lets have that discussion. If it's that the major AI companies are becoming too powerful and anti-competitive, let's talk serious anti-trust enforcement. Micro-managing business policies isn't going to work very well.

    • hnfong  7 days ago

      You two are talking about different things.

      You are pointing out that OpenAI can cancel user's accounts for almost any reason, and nobody can really force them to serve customers that they suspect are distilling their models.

      That's one thing.

      The GP is saying the government can make laws to make terms against distillation unenforceable. Without such laws, if you signed an agreement with OpenAI pinky swearing you won't distill, but turns out you did, you are liable in tort and OpenAI can sue you. (It seems nobody really cares about contract and agreements any more, but still...)

      This is the other thing.

      And I think you are both right.

      3 replies →

Terr_  8 days ago

> Seems only fair

"You're trying to kidnap what I've rightfully stolen!" -- Vizzini

paxys  8 days ago

It's pretty common to have such laws. OpenAI can put whatever they want in their ToS, but they cannot go back and sue someone for violating those terms if the government has ruled that clause to be unenforceable.

matheusmoreira  7 days ago

> OpenAI shouldn't be allowed to decide what types of customers it wants and doesn't want?

Correct. It shouldn't be allowed to do that.