Comment by culi
7 days ago
A third the cost, open source, and won't refuse every other request because of some vague possible connection to cybersecurity concerns.
7 days ago
A third the cost, open source, and won't refuse every other request because of some vague possible connection to cybersecurity concerns.
There is too much business risk in running on an American company. They can pull the model back or lobotimize it. No Alex Karp fan, but he was right: companies are worried about hyperscalers stealing their alpha. The lack of guardrails, data security and control really give these open models the edge. If you factor in that they appear to cost less, the hyperscalers are in big trouble. I don't see how this works out. Software was always supposed to be deflationary and collapse down to 0 marginal cost but this isn't remotely the case. It's truly amazing to see the state of open weight models
My questions about strawberries got blocked as too dangerous! I’m not joking
Strawberries are a well known weakness of LLMs, as they have a hard time to count the numbers of "r"s in them. Maybe that's why, because they fear that weakness could be exploited somehow.
I always thought this should be easier by telling it to write each letter one a new line, then count, any token separator ought to suffice, so much so you'd think they'd have trained in this strategy given tokens make individual letters opaque
Strawberries aren't the weakness, the weakness is the tokenization of a prompt. Any word with multiple duplicate characters is going to be troublesome for LLMs.
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Probably need to be taught by someone of Latino origin. Learning to roll them "r"s could help.
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My God! You're practically a terrorist and should be on a watchlist! Who knows what you'll ask next? "Who is the surgeon to the boy?"
I asked about Tiananmen Square and it said it knew nothing about it. A real life “Doesn’t look like anything to me” moment.
Or biology or chemistry.
Or weapons manufacturing. It can refuse to answer on a lot of topics.
From the blog post moonshot refers to it as open source but only mentions releasing the weights.
So far all the Kimi models have open sourced their code, their weights, and published technical reports explaining their training methodology. I expect the Kimi K3 Technical Report will come out July 27 and they usually publish the code and the weights alongside that.
The weights are the "source" of a model.
If weights are the source for models then ELF binaries are the source for software.
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I want to caution against this line of thinking. NSA's fast16 program silently altered data during nuclear simulations, and that is also possible within open weight models. There is no reason to think there is anything like that currently, it also cannot be dismissed. Open source would include the training data so you could create a similarly capable model.
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The weights are the output artifact, the training corpus and system are the source.
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Interestingly the reality of the open source release is they are opening up to full distillation by the closed source model providers at a deeper and more fundamental level. If anything the open sourcing will help Anthropic and open ai ladder up faster. Open source has always been about mutual cooperation towards a goal and has never closed the door to commercial success. All the hand wringing about open weight models putting closed providers at a disadvantage doesn’t get what working in the open actually does for commercial interests - it is like science in the open - it enables and lifts all boats. Likewise commercial success doesn’t close the opportunity for competition or more open source work - it’s the economy of activity and competition that matters overall. When things stagnate is when closer concerns turtle up and collude on not competing for each others turf.
The future is good and better for everyone the more work is in the open and the more work is in the commercial space. It’s good all around.
The closed labs don't really benefit unless the open model has something extra they don't have though. Meanwhile the open model dilutes their customer base and seriously cheapens their offering (which is a heck of a good though IMO).
Because the open model might have been distilled from outputs of the closed model doesn’t mean they are architecturally equivalent. There is almost certainly innovations in architecture present in the open models that the closed labs didn’t think of. It also is almost certainly true that they aren’t completely built out of a distilled corpus, that reinforcement is equivalent, etc. Therefore closed labs will also benefit from being able to inspect in totality the architecture, activations, weights, and be able to train against it at scale in an ensemble of other models and their internal work.
The only way there is no benefit would be is if the open models are literal copies of the closed model, which unless there was direct theft, is highly improbable.
I'm happy that Kimi K3 is indeed SotA and its open weights are due to be released soon.
It's also true that Moonshot and other labs distill from Claude. This has been reported on extensively. I don't think there's any alpha for Anthropic distilling from this model. I do not mean to discount the tremendous amount of innovation regarding MoE and quantization that Moonshot has accomplished. But its training with synthetic data is in large part from distillation from frontier labs.
When I say distill I also mean mine it architecturally for insights but I doubt seriously the model training is entirely distillation of Claude, it’s almost certainly a mixture of both original corpus and reinforcement as well as distillation. I think it’s a little condescending to imply that these new open models are cheap ripoffs with nothing original to them. These teams and labs are top tier as well, working under unreasonable constraints imposed by the USG. That’s a powerful combination for creativity.
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For regular chat users it's $19 while Claude is $20...
$20 users don't get access to Fable. It's $100+ tier only.
What to do with $20 on Fable? One prompt or two ?
I'm a $20 user and was given $100 extra usage credit today, "for Fable" (I'll be sticking to Sonnet and sometimes Opus TYVM).
True. However, I believe most non-programmers don't need access to the fanciest model, but just want to use a good LLM without constant nagging about usage limits. Then 19 vs. 20 is true?
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hmm almost like the exact race-to-the-bottom + arms-race dynamic all the doomers have been warning about
One man's offensive penetration tool is another mans defensive tool. In the recent HuggingFace/OpenAI incident the safety controls stood in the way of the defenders, not the attackers:
https://www.thestack.technology/hugging-face-hacked-turned-t...
You're presenting further evidence of lack of effective control over these systems as... a mitigating factor...?
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Race to the bottom for the investors, utility for the rest of us. The future is already here, it’s just not evenly distributed yet (Gibson).
Doom for whom?
Well considering it was just a few months ago that OpenAI had the brilliant idea of connecting these systems to autonomously run an actual protein synthesis wetlab, very possibly all of us.
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