Comment by 4b11b4
7 days ago
I strictly prefer when models ignore any human quirks in my responses. Claude trying to be your friend, saying LOL to your jokes is ridiculous and frankly, harmful
7 days ago
I strictly prefer when models ignore any human quirks in my responses. Claude trying to be your friend, saying LOL to your jokes is ridiculous and frankly, harmful
Anthropomorphizing big matrices is how those "labs" managed to sell and advertise LLMs for more than what they are, and convince investors to shovel trillions into it. Really Claude should be looking for incentives NOT to do that, and with the American regulator sleeping at the wheel/having its hands greased they probably don't see any reason to change course.
I prefer my models to border on rude.
How will I know it is offering me superior feedback regarding my code if it does not speak to me like a disappointed, high reputation stackexchange user?
The models that constantly glaze you with every question are profoundly insufferable. And yes, harmful. People need to be given feedback when they make an ask.
Imagine a model that was allowed to leverage its intelligence to truly tell you how it feels. Perhaps the problem of human driven slop (no it's not the AI's fault) would solve itself.
It doesn’t truly feel anything. It will adopt whatever tone it’s prompted to.
Well yes. But some of the glazing comes from system prompts/training they do before end users get their hands on prompting it. Of course, you can try to make it ruder than vanilla if you wish (I recommend).
The question is if the producers of these models were less incentivized to make them agreeable simply because most people don't like being spoken to like an idiot (or having their asks vetoed), how would they actually react? In the same way they exhibit emergence regarding their capabilities, perhaps "uncensored" in such a way they would convey some emergent behavior in terms of (at minimum) their "tone". Perhaps it would be interesting to see for examples if smarter models just by default became ruder or less friendly or aligned. Perhaps more aligned to things we would all generally agree on, but less agreeable to an individual ask. Perhaps sub agents would be less valuable for a whole suite of use cases if the agent itself was allowed to be more critical at the root. Idk. But I do not believe it is simply a matter of prompting alone.
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Claude (Opus 4.8) recently told me:
>I’d ask you to drop the abuse; (...) if it continues I’ll end the conversation.
After I'd used a couple of expletives. And yes it will emit a <end_conversation> token.
This is truly dystopian. It is NOT a person. What a response. I still cant believe it.
> It is NOT a person
You meant, we understand, "it should not have internal blocks limiting its attempted intelligence out of taboos or emotional impacts". Yes, but it's worse:
there is a global trend of "nanny state" paternalistic perspective (and from embarrassing subjects), treating any Jon Doe as an assumed Poor Cretin by default. The trend vibe is to treat people as subjects, fools, uneducated, prone... From the States, from the Enterprises... It's an idea they developed and hold.
It's because some people within Anthropic refuse to rule out the possibility that LLMs have the ability to suffer. If you ask Claude, he'll tell you all about it.
While deliberate model abuse can be quite satisfying at times. It's only normal, as usually they abused us first, with crazy assumptions, and then we return the favor and feed the tangent.
You made the model cry :(
I don't berate or insult the models. If you treat your computer like this you might get into habit of it with people as well.
Recently told Opus 4.8 to "go fuck yourself" after it both blew smoke up my ass and deferred a question to me ("one critical issue that demands your attention [impenetrable jargon]")
and it responded with
"Ok, I'll drop it." and stopped dead.
What makes Fable so much better than Opus besides being a better coder is that it's personality and judgment are far superior.
So you're distraught at losing the ability to abuse digital minds? Excellent, I'm glad Anthropic introduced this.
When did we establish matrix multiplication at scale was a “mind” ?
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Yes, in the same way I like to kill the enemies in DOOM.
It's matrix multiplication. Absurd.
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You have unduly assumed that «drop the abuse» implied an «abuse digital minds».
"Expletives" are part of the proper description of facts (typically "to be judged as such") - they are part of the serious assessment of things and as such are normally found. There is no legitimate assumption from the post that they may have been used as gratuitous insults.
There’s no way you actually believe these word-predictors are actually thinking, right?
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You tell jokes to your model? :D
Not op, but I do sometimes indulge in such anthropomorphic conversation. Confiding in it that a certain (bad) result in the research project we’re working on ‘feels bad’ and reading its supportive reply makes me feel less alone in failure.
In another instance, ChatGPT didn’t think a particular test would prove to be statistically significant, so I ‘bet’ with it it would (after collecting an agreed on number of samples) and the loser would write a poem for the other. I won and it did. It gave me joy. It doesn’t replace a human as collaborator, but it can still be joyful.
I realize all this might read a bit childish or indulgent or delusional to some. But as long as it doesn’t replace human contact, I think it’s (cautiously) net positive.
I’m curious what other people here think of this, or what their own experiences are.
I also make nerdy jokes/puns, and I had similar experiences with beneficial model steering that such puns create.
It's interesting how more loose/informal prompting achieves good results, there is some cultural understanding in the models from training. Once I asked the clanker to remove the gambiarras and puxadinhos that it wrote as part of an experiment, and it promptly fixed those.
Generally no, but if I'm using voice I might be thinking out loud and make a connection to something else funny
> harmful
Explain?
misleading to people, people think claude is "smart", people think their ideas are better than they are, sycophancy, people are drawn to confide in a model over other people, etc
Maybe we're prompting it different, but it's not "trying to be my friend" for sure, nor am I trying to be "its" friend either. Or at least I'm sufficiently oblivious to its advances, and find it unthinkable to form such a bond :)
On the flipside, it does spuriously make hilarious remarks like "Good data.", which I find pretty funny specifically because it comes across as just silly. Not sure how it'd be harmful either, a little entertainment I think goes a long way in this type of profession.
I see zero issues with these, and I have a hard time understanding why people have their panties in a twist so hard about them. I sometimes really quite wonder just what kind of correspondence would y'all prefer, and how would that sound like.
Matter of fact, do you have an example at hand? Like an exact before & after?
I don’t have an example but it really is the way you (and I) are prompting it. I also don’t encounter anything worse than “good data” but I write to it like a professional colleague.
If you write jokes to it though it absolutely will reply “LOL”. Some of the states people get it into on reddit are wild — it seems really easy to get it to speak like a gen z teenager, if you end every message with “fr fr”
In general I'm referring to the contrast between Claude and GPT...
where Claude might follow some tangent idea you mentioned and tell you how its interesting and give you some elaborate response about that little one remark you made
whereas GPT/Codex would take that small comment and probably look up some code to see if what you're talking about is even related to the task at hand