The world is full of nuance. Just like whataboutism and "both sides" can be convenient rhetorical devices for people lying to themselves or others, accusing someone of either can be a convenient figleaf for avoiding thinking about the flaws of one's own side.
The fact that Trump won in 2016 obviously overshadowed many things about that election. I didn't vote for him but I can still remember acutely the disappointment I felt during the primaries when the presumptive frontrunners were another Clinton and another Bush. Like out of 300 million people, these will be the choices presented to me? Whataboutism is bad mkay, but two things can also be true at the same time. Nuance.
I'm anything but a fan of Trump, but I think these typical slurs don't really make any sense. Were Trump corrupt and pliable then he wouldn't be doing half the things he's doing. There's tremendous money and influence in opposition to things he's doing that he could easily cash in on if he wanted. By contrast there's basically no 'Let's go invade Iran' lobby outside of Israel, and even 'Israel' misstates that since it's mostly that nut and yahoo they have for a leader.
The one nuance I'd add is that greed and corruption are distinct. Like most politicians Trump is certainly excessively greedy. But I think corruption is when an external power gets somebody to act in a way that they would not otherwise, in exchange for sort of personal benefit. And I think what we have on display here is very much the 'real' Trump. If anything, the half-wit would-be assassins seem to have given him a savior complex, thinking that he's God's chosen or whatever.
So for instance Rubio is 100% corrupt. That only political position he has is regurgitating whoever else's position happens to be politically expedient at the moment. And I got very similar vibes from Kamala with things like claiming she'd do nothing different than Biden did, taking on the obviously poisonous role of 'border czar' under Biden, and so on.
He did do the "can't sell GPUs to Poland*" move when he was on his way out though.
Separating countries into "tier 1" and "tier 2" was a pretty bad look, especially when a bunch of European countries that seemed to have good relations with the US ended up in tier 2. Looked suspiciously similar to the iron curtain.
That doesn't describe the candidates on offer though.
Look, I just want good rational, wise, humane low touch governance without excessive political ideology nonsense. I'm sick of the wars, sick of the lies, sick of the economic yo yo of boom/bust, sick of progressivism and "woke", sick of religion being injected into the conversation, sick of idiot candidates put there by the wealthy. And no, I'm not going to pretend that Joe Biden administration or Kamala was acceptable. Nor am I going to pretend that socialism is really gonna work this time, it's not and will leave most people worse off over the long term.
I realize this might be too much to ask, for but a boy can dream.
That would only be because you chose not to distinguish it. The words differ because the sentiment differs. Both sides are not "the same" manifestly. This does not mean both candidates were not morons.
The fact that you're likening a sparing few narrowly targeted tarrifs to capriciously applied illegal global tarrifs suggests you're not quite looking at things fairly.
> "Both sides are the same" is the last bastion of denial.
This is hyperpartisan bullshit that you obviously wouldn't say if someone were choosing between a red shirt and a blue shirt. If you support some political candidate, defend them on the merits of their positions and capabilities, not by repeating content-free jingles.
Or even worse, based on unexplored counterfactuals: "X" did this, don't you wish you picked "Y"? As if the fact that the red shirt turned out to be flammable means that the blue shirt wouldn't have been. Then when somebody points out that the labels are the same, "whataboutism!"
Even "the last bastion" is just a cynical flourish to associate this sentiment with a saying that has value to people on its own merits.
> cope
And this is twitter/online addiction. With an opposition like this, Trump will be president until the heart attack kills him. Addicted to self-regard.
>This is hyperpartisan bullshit that you obviously wouldn't say if someone were choosing between a red shirt and a blue shirt.
I voted for Dean Phillips in the primary. I'm extremely angry at the DNC. I thought they treated Mitt Romney and John McCain like garbage for absolutely no reason. I would have happily voted for Romney over both Clinton and Trump in 2016. I'm not some partisan hack. That said, it wasn't a difficult choice last election.
Donald Trump is an exceptionally corrupt, delusional, moronic President. He pretends that doing it out in the open makes it okay.
He's literally flying around in a Qatari bribe. This level of corruption and self-dealing is exceptional.
I'd say if I have to chose between a moron and a corrupt moron, I'd say let the whole thing collapse. The "world burning" because one of the two parties can't get elected is a bunch of bs. The whole thing is a sham and trying to get people to vote because the other party is worse just shows how bad you are.
I'm not equating them, I'm literally saying to ignore these parts (most left-wing part of Dems - DSA, most right-wing part of Reps - fascist part of MAGA) of the two parties when comparing. I support DSA, it's the only alternative there is in the USA.
It's a race to the bottom and I understand everyone who does not vote (for one of the 2 major parties) on the condition that they don't give up hope but start to learn and organize for real change.
The world is full of nuance. Just like whataboutism and "both sides" can be convenient rhetorical devices for people lying to themselves or others, accusing someone of either can be a convenient figleaf for avoiding thinking about the flaws of one's own side.
The fact that Trump won in 2016 obviously overshadowed many things about that election. I didn't vote for him but I can still remember acutely the disappointment I felt during the primaries when the presumptive frontrunners were another Clinton and another Bush. Like out of 300 million people, these will be the choices presented to me? Whataboutism is bad mkay, but two things can also be true at the same time. Nuance.
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I'm anything but a fan of Trump, but I think these typical slurs don't really make any sense. Were Trump corrupt and pliable then he wouldn't be doing half the things he's doing. There's tremendous money and influence in opposition to things he's doing that he could easily cash in on if he wanted. By contrast there's basically no 'Let's go invade Iran' lobby outside of Israel, and even 'Israel' misstates that since it's mostly that nut and yahoo they have for a leader.
The one nuance I'd add is that greed and corruption are distinct. Like most politicians Trump is certainly excessively greedy. But I think corruption is when an external power gets somebody to act in a way that they would not otherwise, in exchange for sort of personal benefit. And I think what we have on display here is very much the 'real' Trump. If anything, the half-wit would-be assassins seem to have given him a savior complex, thinking that he's God's chosen or whatever.
So for instance Rubio is 100% corrupt. That only political position he has is regurgitating whoever else's position happens to be politically expedient at the moment. And I got very similar vibes from Kamala with things like claiming she'd do nothing different than Biden did, taking on the obviously poisonous role of 'border czar' under Biden, and so on.
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I didn't say "Both sides are the same". I said both candidates were morons.
As far as terms, I don't like really like either side we have on the menu right now.
Biden may have been a senile fool in 2025, but he was smart enough to listen to people who knew their ass from their elbow.
And to also not burn down the furniture to 'own' his political enemies.
He did do the "can't sell GPUs to Poland*" move when he was on his way out though.
Separating countries into "tier 1" and "tier 2" was a pretty bad look, especially when a bunch of European countries that seemed to have good relations with the US ended up in tier 2. Looked suspiciously similar to the iron curtain.
https://www.euractiv.com/news/biden-divides-eu-with-new-ai-c...
* It wasn't that they couldn't sell GPUs at all, but they put caps on the amount.
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That doesn't describe the candidates on offer though.
Look, I just want good rational, wise, humane low touch governance without excessive political ideology nonsense. I'm sick of the wars, sick of the lies, sick of the economic yo yo of boom/bust, sick of progressivism and "woke", sick of religion being injected into the conversation, sick of idiot candidates put there by the wealthy. And no, I'm not going to pretend that Joe Biden administration or Kamala was acceptable. Nor am I going to pretend that socialism is really gonna work this time, it's not and will leave most people worse off over the long term.
I realize this might be too much to ask, for but a boy can dream.
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Potato, potahto. Your comment is indistinguishable from a "both sides are the same" argument.
That would only be because you chose not to distinguish it. The words differ because the sentiment differs. Both sides are not "the same" manifestly. This does not mean both candidates were not morons.
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I mean, both sides do implement protectionist laws.
Did we already forget about Biden raising tariffs on Chinese EVs to protect the auto industry & unions?
I’m not sure you’re looking at things quite fairly.
The fact that you're likening a sparing few narrowly targeted tarrifs to capriciously applied illegal global tarrifs suggests you're not quite looking at things fairly.
What? What are you talking about?
I’m clearly likening it to the subject of this thread: using government to create protectionist policies.
100% tariffs on Chinese EVs is a protectionist policy by Biden. Banning Chinese AI would be a protectionist policy from Trump.
Where did you get confused?
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> "Both sides are the same" is the last bastion of denial.
This is hyperpartisan bullshit that you obviously wouldn't say if someone were choosing between a red shirt and a blue shirt. If you support some political candidate, defend them on the merits of their positions and capabilities, not by repeating content-free jingles.
Or even worse, based on unexplored counterfactuals: "X" did this, don't you wish you picked "Y"? As if the fact that the red shirt turned out to be flammable means that the blue shirt wouldn't have been. Then when somebody points out that the labels are the same, "whataboutism!"
Even "the last bastion" is just a cynical flourish to associate this sentiment with a saying that has value to people on its own merits.
> cope
And this is twitter/online addiction. With an opposition like this, Trump will be president until the heart attack kills him. Addicted to self-regard.
Why do you think the red and blue shirt are identical except their color?
>This is hyperpartisan bullshit that you obviously wouldn't say if someone were choosing between a red shirt and a blue shirt.
I voted for Dean Phillips in the primary. I'm extremely angry at the DNC. I thought they treated Mitt Romney and John McCain like garbage for absolutely no reason. I would have happily voted for Romney over both Clinton and Trump in 2016. I'm not some partisan hack. That said, it wasn't a difficult choice last election.
Donald Trump is an exceptionally corrupt, delusional, moronic President. He pretends that doing it out in the open makes it okay.
He's literally flying around in a Qatari bribe. This level of corruption and self-dealing is exceptional.
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I'd say if I have to chose between a moron and a corrupt moron, I'd say let the whole thing collapse. The "world burning" because one of the two parties can't get elected is a bunch of bs. The whole thing is a sham and trying to get people to vote because the other party is worse just shows how bad you are.
Both sides support genocide, under Biden even more Black people died in america.
Both truly are the same (ignoring DSA and extreme MAGA, but the centrists of both are doing the same politics)
Trying to equate the DSA with MAGA is like trying to equate Black power with “white power”
I'm not equating them, I'm literally saying to ignore these parts (most left-wing part of Dems - DSA, most right-wing part of Reps - fascist part of MAGA) of the two parties when comparing. I support DSA, it's the only alternative there is in the USA.
One candidate supports two genocides, the other supports seven.
It's a race to the bottom and I understand everyone who does not vote (for one of the 2 major parties) on the condition that they don't give up hope but start to learn and organize for real change.
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