Meanwhile in place of power, cable, and phone lines there is a related 18 mile translucent line hung in order to turn the entire city into one big happy home called a *eruv* -- following the law of the highest of high courts to the letter. [0]
AFAIK the eruvim are not dictated by “high courts” (there is no “high court” at all), but are instead constructed and maintained by various Orthodox groups. Not all Orthodox groups agree about their propriety either, so the presence of an eruv doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s recognized.
(Also pedantic, but it’s not the entire city: there’s a Manhattan eruv that covers a large part of Manhattan, while Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx have separate smaller eruvim.)
I live in nyc, when I first heard of the eruv couldn’t believe they would come up with such elaborate hacks just to ‘technically’ still be following their religious laws! Now if I remember I try and spot it when out.
Somebody posted on HN before about an eruv index, that’s how I found my city had one as well[0]. I assume they got sort of popular around Jewish neighborhoods.
Like a lot of the rules are very fuzzy in their origin. The whole kosher business comes from a passage about "Not boiling a kid in it's mothers milk". I think most people would interpret that much more literally and you couldn't kill a child goat (kid) and boil it in it's mothers milk; and probably also extend it to other animals like cows. But I'd still think that killing a kid and putting a slice on cheese on the meat would be fine.
So if somebody is going to be obtuse with what you can do it seems like it'd be good fun to figure out all the ways around it.
Jews have a very different relationship to religious laws than Christians. In his own time, Jesus was combating the predominant interpretation of the Jewish law in favor of his own interpretation, which is based more about the meaning and purpose of the law rather than the precise letter of the law. Sin isn't simply non-adherence to the law, it is an intrinsic part of human nature that needs to be redeemed, and all will fall short of the law. The important thing to remember in this is that in historically Christian cultures, we have inherited Jesus's view of the law that was directly and explicitly opposed to the version of Judaism that eventually became the default.
Jews think of the law differently. The law came directly from God- therefore, it is free from errors. If there are loopholes you can find in the law, God put them there for a reason and won't be mad if you use them. Some people even think that God put the loopholes in there as a reward for careful study of the law. Jews also don't think that there is eternal damnation in Hell facing anyone who defies the law, so I suppose the stakes are lower than for Christians so they can afford to be stricter.
Religious infighting with 2 fundamentalist sects that somehow boiled down to some people digging a tunnel connecting 2 buildings because of... reasons? Like it seems like they thought that if they built the tunnel that'd magically lead to everyone deciding "You know what, this expansion project is a good thing!"
Very bizarre.
Regardless, I'm glad it got shut down before a collapse killed someone.
> Religious infighting with 2 fundamentalist sects that somehow boiled down to some people digging a tunnel connecting 2 buildings because of... reasons?
The very short version is that both groups claim ownership of that building, and one of them wants to expand it significantly. Neither group is allowed to modify the building because of a court order, so the one that wants to modify it did it surreptitiously in an attempt to create facts on the ground that would modify the status quo.
(Obviously none of this is sensible, but the actual reasons are pretty quotidian.)
You can find the defendant names in this article (from the wikipedia link) [1] and then look up some basic case info by name: google "new york WebCriminal Defendant Search" and then search by defendant name + Kings Supreme Criminal Court. You'll see information like case number and next court date. You can also find similar info with "nyscef case search".
When I was clicking around, the website sometimes had language about not linking to it directly without permission so that's why no link... even though it seems a bit silly.
An illegal tunnel in a densely populated city like that is a bold move.
This was unexpected though:
> stills taken from videos of the synagogue's interior as well as the room leading to the tunnel, which showed a stained mattress and high chair, respectively, fueled antisemitic conspiracy theories
> A USA Today fact-check stated that the stained mattress seen in viral videos had been removed from behind wood paneling of the synagogue rather than from the tunnel itself, undermining online speculation that the mattresses were in the tunnel
> An illegal tunnel in a densely populated city like that is a bold move.
I'd say it was an utterly braindead move and pretty much everyone involved is lucky to be alive.
There's just so, so much dangerous stuff you can hit below ground - high voltage cables that really, really do not like it if you even nick them, high current cables giving off nasty electromagnetic fields, ordinary low voltage cables whose isolation is already degraded, old water, gas, steam and sewer mains that may or may not burst simply because the only thing holding together the rust is the pressure from the soil, other, maybe long forgotten tunnels...
And that's before even getting into the issue of potentially getting caved in, creating a sinkhole or an ingress avenue for stormwater.
> Huebner downplayed the seriousness of the charges and said the defendants are all Israelis studying to be rabbis ... Two of the men have dual U.S.-Israeli citizenship and none are married.
> The 13 people, all young men, pleaded not guilty in State Supreme Court in Brooklyn ... Another four defendants were absent because they were in Israel, according to their lawyer, Levi Huebner.
> Justice Adam Perlmutter ordered the defendants ... to turn over their passports.
Meanwhile in place of power, cable, and phone lines there is a related 18 mile translucent line hung in order to turn the entire city into one big happy home called a *eruv* -- following the law of the highest of high courts to the letter. [0]
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSldb9IMDVU
AFAIK the eruvim are not dictated by “high courts” (there is no “high court” at all), but are instead constructed and maintained by various Orthodox groups. Not all Orthodox groups agree about their propriety either, so the presence of an eruv doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s recognized.
(Also pedantic, but it’s not the entire city: there’s a Manhattan eruv that covers a large part of Manhattan, while Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx have separate smaller eruvim.)
> Not all Orthodox groups agree about their propriety either, so the presence of an eruv doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s recognized.
There have been some big fights about the topic: https://traditiononline.org/unpacking-the-iggerot/
Although from what I understand, Moshe Feinstein wasn’t opposed to eruvim in principle, he just viewed them as an inappropriate for a city like NYC
There's a lot one could say about
> following the law of the highest of high courts to the letter.
but I don't think that "there is no 'high court' at all" is one, for believers.
6 replies →
I live in nyc, when I first heard of the eruv couldn’t believe they would come up with such elaborate hacks just to ‘technically’ still be following their religious laws! Now if I remember I try and spot it when out.
It also has a status page! https://eruv.nyc/
Somebody posted on HN before about an eruv index, that’s how I found my city had one as well[0]. I assume they got sort of popular around Jewish neighborhoods.
[0]https://eruv-columbus.com/
1 reply →
Idk it makes sense to me.
Like a lot of the rules are very fuzzy in their origin. The whole kosher business comes from a passage about "Not boiling a kid in it's mothers milk". I think most people would interpret that much more literally and you couldn't kill a child goat (kid) and boil it in it's mothers milk; and probably also extend it to other animals like cows. But I'd still think that killing a kid and putting a slice on cheese on the meat would be fine.
So if somebody is going to be obtuse with what you can do it seems like it'd be good fun to figure out all the ways around it.
3 replies →
Jews have a very different relationship to religious laws than Christians. In his own time, Jesus was combating the predominant interpretation of the Jewish law in favor of his own interpretation, which is based more about the meaning and purpose of the law rather than the precise letter of the law. Sin isn't simply non-adherence to the law, it is an intrinsic part of human nature that needs to be redeemed, and all will fall short of the law. The important thing to remember in this is that in historically Christian cultures, we have inherited Jesus's view of the law that was directly and explicitly opposed to the version of Judaism that eventually became the default.
Jews think of the law differently. The law came directly from God- therefore, it is free from errors. If there are loopholes you can find in the law, God put them there for a reason and won't be mad if you use them. Some people even think that God put the loopholes in there as a reward for careful study of the law. Jews also don't think that there is eternal damnation in Hell facing anyone who defies the law, so I suppose the stakes are lower than for Christians so they can afford to be stricter.
This is a very weird story.
Religious infighting with 2 fundamentalist sects that somehow boiled down to some people digging a tunnel connecting 2 buildings because of... reasons? Like it seems like they thought that if they built the tunnel that'd magically lead to everyone deciding "You know what, this expansion project is a good thing!"
Very bizarre.
Regardless, I'm glad it got shut down before a collapse killed someone.
> Religious infighting with 2 fundamentalist sects that somehow boiled down to some people digging a tunnel connecting 2 buildings because of... reasons?
The very short version is that both groups claim ownership of that building, and one of them wants to expand it significantly. Neither group is allowed to modify the building because of a court order, so the one that wants to modify it did it surreptitiously in an attempt to create facts on the ground that would modify the status quo.
(Obviously none of this is sensible, but the actual reasons are pretty quotidian.)
It's quite frustrating. The story ends with:
> four defendants refused to accept a plea deal and were set to be tried in April 2025
I can find loads of stories reporting those facts, but I can't find an account of what happened next. Did they change their pleas? Were they tried?
Looks like the cases are still ongoing.
You can find the defendant names in this article (from the wikipedia link) [1] and then look up some basic case info by name: google "new york WebCriminal Defendant Search" and then search by defendant name + Kings Supreme Criminal Court. You'll see information like case number and next court date. You can also find similar info with "nyscef case search".
When I was clicking around, the website sometimes had language about not linking to it directly without permission so that's why no link... even though it seems a bit silly.
[1] https://www.nbcnewyork.com/brooklyn/men-charged-brooklyn-syn...
Any mention of NYC underground is an opportunity for the antisemites to come crawling out of the woodwork.
An illegal tunnel in a densely populated city like that is a bold move.
This was unexpected though:
> stills taken from videos of the synagogue's interior as well as the room leading to the tunnel, which showed a stained mattress and high chair, respectively, fueled antisemitic conspiracy theories
> A USA Today fact-check stated that the stained mattress seen in viral videos had been removed from behind wood paneling of the synagogue rather than from the tunnel itself, undermining online speculation that the mattresses were in the tunnel
Here's a video in which a Rabbi who is a member of the sect clarifies the story:
https://xcancel.com/Truthtellerftm/status/197901264211193488...
This is a clip from a comedy podcast called 9/11 is Gay.
> An illegal tunnel in a densely populated city like that is a bold move.
I'd say it was an utterly braindead move and pretty much everyone involved is lucky to be alive.
There's just so, so much dangerous stuff you can hit below ground - high voltage cables that really, really do not like it if you even nick them, high current cables giving off nasty electromagnetic fields, ordinary low voltage cables whose isolation is already degraded, old water, gas, steam and sewer mains that may or may not burst simply because the only thing holding together the rust is the pressure from the soil, other, maybe long forgotten tunnels...
And that's before even getting into the issue of potentially getting caved in, creating a sinkhole or an ingress avenue for stormwater.
> Huebner downplayed the seriousness of the charges and said the defendants are all Israelis studying to be rabbis ... Two of the men have dual U.S.-Israeli citizenship and none are married.
> The 13 people, all young men, pleaded not guilty in State Supreme Court in Brooklyn ... Another four defendants were absent because they were in Israel, according to their lawyer, Levi Huebner.
> Justice Adam Perlmutter ordered the defendants ... to turn over their passports.