Comment by Telaneo
11 hours ago
> but then says he can't have me disrespecting and being a smart-ass to his cops
Maybe it's just me, but I am of the exact opposite opinion. Cops have enormous power, and any misuse of it should be pushed back on hard. Cops that misuse their power should not be respected. An informed citizenry is a wonderful asset in making that power imbalance less of a problem.
There's a difference between polite pushback and being straight up disrespectful. It shouldn't matter as the cops shouldn't abuse their power and shouldn't attack people, but we live in the real world. The judge probably didn't want to have to deal with the potential future mess if op didn't learn their lesson and got beat up by a cop.
"Straight up disrespectful" can be made up to mean anything, but in general should refer to things that shouldn't bother police officers doing their job. They can get pissed off about it in their own time.
And then people are surprised and saddened when LEO start acting like robots and default to treating you as threat to be mitigated as much as legally allowed in context.
The parent described a story from a different reality - one where people are people, where communities have basic expectations of conduct, and authority is respected on all sides. The cop was angered and snapped (bad), but was stopped by their partner (good, and it's one of the reasons cops have partners!). The parent was a kid who behaved like an asshole in a moment, by their own admission. Plenty of teenagers act like that, it's an age-old more. The judge did not act as a proxy for the angry cop to retaliate, but instead reacted correctly by both praising the civic attitude (to the chagrin and I imagine further embarrassment of that cop), and addressing the behavior that is not welcome in a civilized community.
You can't have it both ways. You can either have civilization of people, or violent hellhole of laywers and robots. Pick one.
(And if you pick wrong, then don't complain, and by $deity, don't export these attitudes overseas, please.)
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There is a general understanding that police officers deserve implicit respect while on duty, more so than random citizens, as they are representatives of the law. Swearing at a random passerby is rude but legal, swearing at a police officer is against this need for respect and is a misdemeanor in many places around the world.
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> The judge probably didn't want to have to deal with the potential future mess if op didn't learn their lesson and got beat up by a cop.
A judge solving their own problems in this way is clearly abuse of power as well
> disrespectful
To paraphrase a useful distinction I saw once...
Some people talk about mutual respect, but it's not mutual at all because they use a different definition on each side. They demand you "respect" the power of their position or uniform, or else they won't "respect" you as being human.
Respect is earned, not given. Police in some communities are (generally) respected, but they are also (generally) professional.
When trust breaks down, it’s up to those who hold power to restore it, not those subject to power. Too often authority demands submission as a substitute for trust, and the results are predictable.
Sure, I agree that we should be polite and respectful to random people, cops included, but that judge decided that it was illegal to be disrespectful to a cop, which is pretty fucked up.
If a cop demands your ID when you have no obligation to give it, your answer should be something to the effect of "I hope you get hit by the next passing 18-wheeler".
Malignant authority needs to be treated with maximal hostility. The 'lesson' you want here is completely backwards.
That answer would mean that you’re are on drugs. And your being on drugs means that the cop can request your id.
America is a free country. Everyone can ask you for everything. I can ask you for money. A cop can ask you for an id. No need to rush and provide what you were asked for. But that 18 wheeler thing is extremely counterproductive.
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It's not respect unless it goes both ways.
> There's a difference between polite pushback and being straight up disrespectful.
That's a distinction without a difference. Cops see any form of noncompliance as disrespectful ("contempt of cop"). You not only legally can, but absolutely should be able to tell a cop "Get fucked" to their face and walk away if they have no legal basis to detain you. The fact that in reality you will have your life ruined is a problem far worse than any "disrespect".
Yeah, but go tell that to the judge who’s just about to slap you with a sentence.
Unless you want to fight that all the way up the judicial food chain
Absolutely. It's not worth it unless you're more principled than anyone I know at least. Instead you're left with a minor punishment and most of your faith in the justice system left behind.
There's a huge difference between misusing their power and not having perfect understanding of what they're allowed and not allowed to do.
I'm sure there are scenarios where the cop can confiscate the surfboard and the car. The distinction is probably somewhat vague even for highly educated lawyers, and cops cannot expected to be that.
He should have stood up for his rights, sure, but laughing in the cop's face and telling them they're full of shit is disrespectful, and at least where I live is a misdemeanor even if the original case is wrong.
As a citizen, when I have an incomplete understanding of what I'm allowed and not allowed to do I have every incentive to stay on the side of things I'm sure I am allowed to do. Just threatening to do things that you are not allowed to do has the annoying tendency of being a crime
I'm not sure how this suddenly flips for cops