Comment by jonathanlydall
10 hours ago
You could say the same about teen pregnancy being a practically solved problem, except there is still the problem of teen pregnancy. Or even something more mundane as driving consistently safely all the time to solve the problem of accidents.
If everyone was disciplined all the time in regard to everything, many problems in the world would simply not exist. But we live in reality where for whatever reason, people don't know to do something, or they do know and they're just not disciplined, or they make a mistake due to extenuating circumstances. And I would expect that the vast majority of people would oppose any idea of somehow punitively "dealing with" people who get some things wrong.
So I would say that it's very evidently not a practically solved problem, because if it were we wouldn't be looking to solve it still.
Within this reality, a vaccine is a great additional tool at solving the problem of preventing the spread of HIV.
> You could say the same about teen pregnancy being a practically solved problem, except there is still the problem of teen pregnancy. Or even something more mundane as driving consistently safely all the time to solve the problem of accidents.
At the risk of derailing this conversation from the original topic, those two things are not remotely equivalent. There's no organized political movement trying to tell people that seat belts and speed limits are immoral, and you should only drive when you're willing to accept the responsibility that comes with the risks.
Where I am from, organised political movements are not a factor of teen pregnancy and were not the least bit in my mind when I made my statement.
And my two examples are completely arbitrary because my point applies to pretty much any problem which would be solved by people being “more careful”.
So, political/religious elements aside, teen pregnancy and road safety are the same in terms of “if people were just more disciplined, there would not be these problems” (i.e. if teens who have easy access to contraceptives planned ahead before giving into impulsiveness; if drivers were more attentive to their behaviour), which I then pointed out is naive because the reality is that people aren’t perfect, they aren’t always disciplined, we’re all only human.
Hence, we need other solutions to help with problems which don’t require ignoring that people are only human and lack perfect discipline.
I agree that some organised movements can be a problem in that they can make other problems worse.
My point is that teen pregnancy very much does have a solution that has empirically worked quite well at preventing it when it's actually practiced (i.e. high quality sex education and ample access to contraceptives), and pushing abstinence as a solution has demonstrably caused teen pregnancy rates in increase whenever it's used as a replacement for that; the only actual impetus for abstinence as a "solution" is ideological. I think teen pregnancy literally would be a solved problem (with instances being essentially a rounding error) in a society embracing what we actually have proven works well at preventing it; I've never seen any similarly successful mechanism at preventing injuries or deaths in automobile accidents be rejected by a society for ideological reasons.
Trying to handwave away the things we know work to prevent teen pregnancy as "just be careful" feels overly reductive, because it's way easier to do correctly than managing to drive without ever having an accident.
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derailing further, it's no organized political movement, and they don't call it immoral but in Caucasus region some men avoid using seat belts as "unmanly", and that's a very social thing. Small plugs into a seatbelt socket to shut up the car audible warning are very common, including taxis.
Well, they do have a point on the “unmanly” aspect as there is a reason that men are statistically more likely to die before old age than women.
Also, I’ve found that when asked about the risk of something, most people believe that bad things only happen to other people (who also believed that, until it happened to them).
Teen pregnancy (or unwanted pregnancy at all) has been extremely low in several countries, and the factors are not discipline but was of access, focus on health instead of morality, and public service campaign. If it is high in an otherwise rich country, it’s likely not a lack of discipline from teenagers but a lack of free and easy access to contraception and abortive means, social pressure and morality campaigns, lack of sex education (often by design sometimes by negligence after some period of activity)
" likely not a lack of discipline from teenagers"
You two might be using "discipline" pretty different. Your definition of discipline would encompass constant casual sex as long as contraceptives were used and any abortions were prompt, right?
FYI teen pregnancy in the US is the lowest it’s ever been in the history of the country.
Right, but we know that HIV/AIDS essentially is a solved problem in rich countries, that the mentioned interventions are readily available in rich countries, and the only reason HIV transmission is high in poor countries is because, well, they're poor. We (humanity as a whole) have plenty of money, we could fund these things, we simply choose not to.
I would caution against making an allusion to self control. It would be very cruel to act as if people who get a disease through no fault of their own could have avoided it, and most people who contract HIV could not. You may not have intended to make that allusion, but you did.
> So I would say that it's very evidently not a practically solved problem, because if it were we wouldn't be looking to solve it still.
This is obviously not what is meant by "practically solved problem". Everybody knows it is not actually solved.
I recently read "Everything is Tuberculosis". It describes a similar issue with the rich / poor country divide.
It's quite sad and difficult to read at times.
Tuberculosis is different, in a very dark, utilitarian way. 4% of new TB cases are multi-drug resistant (19% of recurrences).
Once it’s multi-drug resistant, if you’re poor then you get an incredibly depressing choice. Rich countries pay for expensive drug resistance testing.
Poor countries have to answer an impossible question. You either do nothing and see if they live, or you try to guess what drugs will work and give them those. However, if you’re wrong and the treatment doesn’t work then the risk that you’ve just made the strain immune to one or more of the drugs in that cocktail skyrockets.
They get asked to either do nothing, or do the best they can today knowing it will make tomorrow worse.
TB is also shockingly infectious, which is sad. You can at least take steps to dramatically reduce HIV risk, it’s much much harder to avoid TB.
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"the only reason HIV transmission is high in poor countries is because, well, they're poor."
This is factually untrue.
Being poor does not equal a HIV transmission rate. There is no 1:1 correlation.
A single protected (condom) sexual act between a male and female averages somewhere around 0.1-0.5% chance of pregnancy, and during the fertile window it could still be around 1% or more even with a condom.
Chance of HIV from one act of unprotected vaginal sex with an HIV-positive partner: ~0.08% male-to-female.
The high HIV transmission rates are NOT correlated with wealth, but social behavior. Unprotected anal sex with many partners? High risk. Now, Africa - the practice of dry sex contributes a ton to HIV transmission. Cultural belief that a dry vagina increases pleasure, hence woman use sand, chalk or bleach to dry out their vaginas, massively increasing HIV risk. Needle sharing of drug users? High HIV risk.
Not a class issue, no reason to punch down on poor people. Poor people have agency and many do not infect themselves with HIV in the first place.
I don't think the original assertion is "punching down" on poor people. While you're correct that poverty isn't the "only reason" for high HIV transmission, poverty certainly contributes to it, via lack of access to health care and lack of access to education. How is it less "punching down" to attribute it to social behavior and culture? Isn't needle sharing associated with poverty, or would you also call that "culture"?
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Dry sex in SSA may be one of the contributing factors, but it’s never been truly proven out as a key contributor in any study I have read; they always address it but say more needs to be done to be certain.
Your comment makes it seem like a key factor when it’s not.
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I’ve never heard that before. That explains a lot.
No, there will always be the threat of teen pregnancy. Conversely, we could wipe out HIV permanently if enough public will across the world was directed toward it.
I fully believe that HIV wouldn’t exist if PrEP had come out in the 80s when public hysteria was at an all-time high and the will to eradicate it was present.
We haven’t even managed to wipe out polio, and that is a cheap, lifelong vaccine.
not only that, people are explicitly trying to bring back measles, and succeeding at it
If we gave every living human on the planet the polio vaccine as soon as they were able to receive it, it would still exist in the wild somewhere.
If new generations are not also given the vaccine, it will eventually return.
Probably the same with HIV, although I could see it being somewhat more difficult for that to make a resurgence. If we inoculated the entire human race against it, it could possibly eradicate HIV for several generations, if not permanently.
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>if PrEP had come out in the 80s when public hysteria was at an all-time high
You mean the time the US admin was intentionally neglecting the epidemic because "it's a gay disease"? Why do you think Reagan would have done anything to ensure such a medication was easily available?
> And I would expect that the vast majority of people would oppose any idea of somehow punitively "dealing with" people who get some things wrong.
Of course, and for good reason. The ones who know for a fact they are right, might in fact be wrong or malicious.
I thought the current panic was that young people (not necessarily teens) weren't having enough kids?
Which is in fact panic that teens are not having enough children, because that's where we have seen big drops...
This whole "panic" seemed weird from the start, but once it becomes clear that it's from the lack of teen pregnancies it takes on an even creepier Epstein-like oddness.
It is entirely possible to believe multiple things at once:
1. The drop is fertility is bad for society
2. The drop in teen pregnancy is good, despite it's contributions to 1
3. We should try to fix 1. without undoing 2.
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No, it's from the cost of living being so high that people are delaying having kids.
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Taking teen pregnancy as an example: we have the tools to avoid it. We have condoms, we have birth control, we have the morning after pill, we have abortion. We have all the tools -- are more tools really going to help? The fact that teen pregnancy is still an issue is not because we lack the tools to solve it.
HIV prevention is similar. We already have the tools. We have condoms. We have PrEP. Sure, a vaccine would be nice, but if someone is unwilling to go on PrEP, why would they suddenly be willing to get a vaccine?
Another tool isn't going to hurt, obviously. But it also isn't the #1 highest leverage place to be spending our time if the goal is to reduce HIV transmission. (It is, however, a great use of time to develop a vaccine if you're profit-motivated. HIV prevention is a massive business. 1 year of PrEP in the US costs $20-30k, although luckily ACA mandates $0 copay. I could imagine a $50k HIV vaccine being a blockbuster drug especially if ACA also mandates $0 copay - tons of money to be made! Ugh)
Edit: To be clear, I'm excited there's a promising vaccine. However, I am not getting my hopes up that a vaccine will magically cure all of the social/political issues getting in the way of a vaccine actually being widely distributed and administered.
> but if someone is unwilling to go on PrEP, why would they suddenly be willing to get a vaccine?
Because PrEP at even its best and most modern version requires an update every six months for life. If you're well-off and in SF or NYC or London that might be easy, but there's so many externalities such as:
- People who misjudge the risk they're at, so don't go on the meds in the first place
- People who live in regions where getting to a doctor even every six months is a challenge
- The six-month injection is extraordinarily expensive and a life-time treatment, for a disease you don't even have yet.
If instead it becomes a once-in-a-lifetime series of shot, like many other vaccines are already, we can start considering a path to extinguishing the disease, not just teaching people to live with it.
Then there's the financial savings of a series of three shots once vs a lifetime of them.
That's absolutely not correct. Truvada has had the same formulation since it was introduced in 2012. Descovy hasn't changed since it was approved in 2019.
You may be thinking of STD tests and bloodwork that is done every 3-6 months depending on your risk level to ensure that you're still HIV negative and that your kidneys are functioning normally, as kidney issues is a rare but serious side effect, especially for Truvada.
Now, what I believe is correct is that most people on PrEP would love to have a vaccine instead of needing a daily pill or even 2-6 injections per year as long as they remain sexually active.
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That's like asking "if someone is unwilling to practice abstinence, why would they be willing to wear a condom, or to flip a magic 'not fertile right at this moment' lightswitch?"
A vaccine is something you do once and PrEP is something you have to continue to do over time and get overcharged out the ass for the entire time and worry about if it will remain available in the future.
It's still killing people like crazy (and spreading) in undeveloped nations. The new drugs are un-cheap.
Also, I believe that we just DOGEd our only vehicle for distributing these to underdeveloped nations.
We did, Musk has sentenced hundreds of thousands, if not millions, to death by dismantling USAID.
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All the tools we have against teen pregnancy need teens making right decisions, or taking corrective actions.
If there were a pill that'd block pregnancy for X years, given at the age of Y, then parents could enforce it and teen pregnancy would be solved (also it'd be very cruel but I'm just trying to make a point so bear with me).
Going back to our topic: People could also forget PrEP, be drunk and forget to wear a condom and so on. If this vaccine (or vaccine series) creates a somewhat permanent protection, it'd make a huge difference.
The US state of Colorado provided young women free IUDs (which are reversible and can last up to eight years) with private funds, and it was wildly successful. I argue teen pregnancy is solved assuming systems remain in place for women to have robust access to contraceptives and reproductive healthcare (which is a systems problem that is never solved completely, but reliant on defending the subject system constantly in perpetuity). The current US administration is rolling back teen pregnancy prevention programs to increase fertility rates in these age cohorts, so there is clearly work ahead to maintain the progress we've made.
If you're sure you don't want kids, or more kids, a bisalp, or bilateral salpingectomy (permanent birth control, removal of both fallopian tubes), is covered by Medicaid or ACA compliant private insurance in the US at 100% with no patient cost sharing as part of the Affordable Care Act federal statute. Doesn't apply to teens imho, but provides protection for 20-39 prime reproductive age cohort for those seeking it. It also decreases the risk of ovarian cancer by 42–77% (https://doi.org/10.5468/ogs.2018.61.5.542).
HIV PrEP in the short term is solved with a twice a year injectable (lenacapavir) until improved options become available (rapid deployment and robust availability of a vaccine given to as many at risk people as possible, as soon as possible). It can be provided for as little as $40/person (HN Search: lenacapavir - https://hn.algolia.com/?q=lenacapavir).
US Government Overhauls Teen Pregnancy Program to Focus on Marriage and Starting Families - https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/22/us/politics/teen-pregnanc... | https://archive.today/ - July 22nd, 2026
Teen birth rates hit another historical low in 2025, CDC says - https://www.npr.org/2026/04/09/nx-s1-5777587/teen-birth-rate... - April 9th, 2026
Private Money Saves Colorado IUD Program As Fight Continues For Public Funding - https://kffhealthnews.org/health-industry/private-money-save... - August 27th, 2015
(with all of that context shared, all vaccines and medical protocols that improve quality of life, as well as defend and empower the human, are welcome and needed, as quickly as reasonable)
I'm not following the points in the above thread.
- people need to make the right decisions to take oral or injectable reverse transcriptase inhibitors
- people need to make the right decisions to take HIV vaccines
We are comparing two tools, not tools versus discipline.
In some ways these reverse transcriptase inhibitors are like a vaccine, in that they can be taken by people who don't have HIV, for protection.
They are inconvenient, requiring regular injections every few months or timing protocols for the oral versions.
An effective vaccine that lasts years would be much more convenient.
Without a HIV vaccine, the toolkit has a gaping lack; another tool is needed!
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Unfortunately HIV is not a solved problem.
Condoms? They break. More frequently than you might think.
Truvada and Descovy are great and make a big difference, but they require either high adherence to taking pills daily or being able to plan ahead for 2-1-1 (for same-sex relations - it's effectiveness for heterosexual intercourse hasn't been determined).
Apretude and Lenacapavir obviously require getting to a doctor or someone who can give you the injection either every other month or twice a year, is expensive, and can be very painful for some days afterward. And, of course, they're expensive.
A vaccine is the only real option for dealing with HIV for good.
The hardest problems to solve that actually matter are in humanities.
All your arguments are sound, and I'm still missing your point. Pharma is interested in doing pharma, indeed. But who's interested in your solution, assuming you have one? A significant part of the current electorate (internationally, even) seems to abhor sex ed, condoms, abortions and all that. So tell me again please how you suggest we address teen pregnancy - in THIS world.
The person I was responding to says "HIV is not a solved problem" and "we need a new tool to solve it, a vaccine!"
My argument is simply that new tools are great, but it's not what's going to solve the HIV problem. Distribution, cost, access, stigma, etc are the larger problems to deal with. (We need to solve all the reasons why people aren't using the existing tools)
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