Comment by lolgab
10 hours ago
I installed it on my Amazon Kindle and I couldn't be happier. It shows once again that free software is superior to proprietary software. Free software grows slowly to make users happier and not to attract them with useless features to extract more value from them. Congratulations for this great piece of software.
I’m a heavy KOReader user and absolutely adore it, but I think it definitely trades user-friendliness for power and flexibility. The Kindle proprietary store has a far more user friendly UI imo, though it’s getting progressively worse (and the fact that kindles now default to showing you the store pisses me off to no end). KOReader plugins really close the gap though.
> I think it definitely trades user-friendliness for power and flexibility
A tale as old as time with OSS software from what I've seen. So far the only exception that I've seen of a FOSS piece of software with great UX is Blender[1]. With UX not being a first-class citizen on Linux, exposure to a solid universal tooling to create great UX also exacerbates things.
I think the issue of bad UX and OSS are comorbid because good UX needs an extremely opinionated mind at the helm and a culture of prioritizing features and saying "No, this is not important" which OSS generally lacks.
[1]: https://www.blender.org/
I don’t know about that.
I think Libreoffice is easier to navigate than ribbon-era Office.
I think especially Gnome, but also Kde has better settings than Windows, which is spread across a new and a classical view (or more?).
I also think MacOS finder is worse than Windows/KDE/Gnome equivalents. When you strip so much away that people have to remember strange key combinations to jump/navigate to specific directories you have really gone too far.
And mobile UX (android and iphone) seem to me worse than any desktop system. Nothing is consistent (sharing data between apps), nothing ever seems settled (settings move around in the central settings apps every few releases).
We could argue in depth. Let me head it off a bit - taste is absolutely a thing, but consistency across releases is evidently a good thing unless you are constantly in a situation where your existing userbase is dwarfed by the prospective one. There’s a reason we hang on to diskette icons, don’t change from desktop to metro to ios style desktops every release and so on.
Last point: OSS software can be misguided, but it never seeks to bamboozle the user to make some corporate goal succeed. It won’t nefariously stuff files on a cloud or actively make it hard to export data or be incentivized to NOT interoperate with devices or programs shipped by competitors.
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> So far the only exception that I've seen of a FOSS piece of software with great UX is Blender.
Most OSS software favors power users instead of total beginners. And even Blender is not a great exercise in discoverability. You need training to use it.
The stock software in Kobo and kindle can be used within minutes because they don't have a lot of features/options. And it's totally fine if that's what you need. Just like Windows 7's Notepad. But if you need more capabilities, your wish is notepad++/vim level (which does require more learning), which is what koreader is.
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> I think the issue of bad UX and OSS are comorbid because
I think UX is simply harder when you're not leading the user by the nose to your most profitable features, and removing or obscuring the others. Commercial UX is more akin to advertising than UX, so there's no wonder that it makes very clear the few affordances that it offers (and bizarre when it doesn't, like the "flat" period.)
The other problem with FOSS UX is that millions of dollars haven't been put into it (literally: 5 developers = 1 million dollars/year.) The wonderful benefit of FOSS UX is that you have plenty of time to learn it, because every feature is already there, no one is forcing you to upgrade, and no one is moving things around and deleting things because it is more profitable to them.
Commercial UX had better be good enough to learn basic functionality quickly, because it's going to be completely recycled every year. It also doesn't want you to learn anything too deeply, because then you might become a (gasp) "power user" and make unprofitable demands.
Imagine using the same type of software (e.g. an mp3 player) for a couple dozen years and thinking that it's a hassle to figure out how to learn it. Imagine being boiled like a frog to relearn how your mp3 player works every couple years for a couple dozen years, and dreaming you've saved some sort of time or effort. Imagine you've used mp3 players for a couple dozen years, you still don't know what an mp3 is, you don't know what a file is, and you don't know how to get your mp3s back after switching your mp3 player without rebuying them. Eventually you switch to streaming, give up making any decisions, and take whatever the marketers prefer.
This is "good" UX.
I jailbroke my Kindle and moved to KOReader last year, primarily to get away from the Amazon jail. Just the bare KOReader UX was pretty utilitarian. It lacked polish for sure. I'll have to agree that, as noted elsewhere, the KOReader menus can be difficult to get a grip on.
If you're working at just the most basic level of functionality, I don't think KOReader is necessarily worse than native Kindle. The latter is hampered by being very opinionated about how you should experience it, and that includes pushing their store above the user's own library, and this is a real annoyance.
As you start to demand more capabilities they diverge more. Organizing when you've got many books on the device is clunky on both platforms, but in different ways. The native Kindle options for grouping are simple, but not necessarily easy. They're very generic, and very cumbersome to work with. Bare KOReader's support for folders makes more sense to me, and it's easier to deal with bulk books than is Kindle's.
Getting books onto Kindle is super-easy if you get them from Amazon, but complexity ramps up for other sources. Your best bet is plugging it into USB and transferring via the file system. Native KOReader add to this an OPDS capability (if your book repository supports it), which works but is less than pleasant. If you use BookOrbit as your repository, there's a plugin that gives you the remote BookOrbit UI from the Kindle, which makes things a LOT better.
I experimented with Simply UI for a bit but could never get it to work quite right. About a month ago I found Bookshelf, and this makes the UX pretty wonderful. It has a very attractive and intuitive UI. And it simplifies the interactions needed for group management a bit.
Bottom line is that KOReader + Bookshelf are, for at least a power user, a potentially far superior experience compared to baseline Kindle.
I've tried hard to make Bookshelf work for me, but I find the UI confusing, going off in unexpected directions, and it's very unintuitive. I've got SimpleUI at the moment and it's comfortable, even though the library interface is lacking.
I don't know what the situation is like for Kindle, but there are atleast two open source alternatives for Kobo. KOReader is the Swiss Army knife, Plato is easier to use.
A few people are suggesting that KOReader is symptomatic if the issues with open source software. The reality is it targets a particular group of users.
I think the only proprietary software companies with any shot at longevity are Japanese companies. First Japan leads by far the ranking of oldest companies in the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies). Then we have actual software like Zelda Breath of the Wild which is a technical marvel comparable to the original Rollercoaster Tycoon considering how well it runs on the severely limited architecture of the Switch.
I think this boils down to profit not being the only driving force for these companies, but prestige and a sense of duty and responsibility towards something larger and less immediate.
I think you know nothing about Japanese software.
You're assuming long lasting soy sauce companies have anything to do with software development. Japan produces great video games despite how terrible otherwise the developer environment and culture is there and nearly all of the other software shows it.
Didn't say they are good quality, or the working environment is nice or anything, just that they have higher chances or living a long time. The reasons might not be any more or less commendable, but they are different than chasing the highest profit margin possible in the next quarter
Japanese software and software technology culture is amongst the worst in the world. They're famous for failing to adopt modern ways of working, tools and as an industry is seriously struggling. There's fantastic video in this from Asianometry: https://youtu.be/ky1nGQhHTso
This podcast about the history of zaibatsu, hardware, and software comes to mind. https://www.disruptingjapan.com/the-forgotten-mistake-that-k...
> Software was not viewed so much as a product, but more like a service, similar to integration, training, and ongoing support and maintenance. It was usually sold on a time-and-materials basis, and sometimes it was just thrown in for free to sweeten the deal. The real money was in the hardware.
> Software development was considered rather low-skill work. It didn’t pay well and was viewed as a kind of clerical work. The job was simply to write software that was close enough to whatever sales had promised the client while they were out drinking last week.
This sounds like the way software was viewed through at least the 1960s in the US.
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There is nothing inherently special about Japan or Japanese people. You can pull similar examples from many other countries.
I take it you've never been to Japan...
Wouldn't wanna live there permanently. Wouldn't want to have been born Japanese. But my god the products and services are head and shoulders above my baseline expectations; it's simply nicer.
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I agree. I didn't say it's special, only different. Can you say adult adoption is something common in the US?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_adult_adoption
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Bro has never played the thousands of shitty visual novels. Hell even from software games, which are beautifully well designed, are technically embarrassing
They are, but the central theme of the convo here isn't quality but longevity
this is complete nonsense. 『ローラーコースタータイクーン』はそもそも日本のゲームではありませんだよね笑
> Breath of the Wild which is a technical marvel comparable to the original Rollercoaster Tycoon considering how well it runs on the severely limited architecture of the Switch.
What? It can’t even maintain a stable 30fps on its own target hardware. That’s not an example is point to for something running “well.”
Yeah, it's genuinely my favorite game of all time but to compare it to Rollercoaster Tycoon as "a technical marvel" is doing a massive disservice to Chris Sawyer.
Software
Software Japan
I've been a Kindle user since way back in 2010 with a Kindle 3G. I had a pretty huge amount of money invested into a library of books on Kindle. I installed koreader on my paperwhite earlier this year and haven't looked back. Even if it weren't for the limitations put on the walled garden for books in the kindle ecosystem, just the software upgrade alone feels great. When you hit buttons in koreader it actually responds in less than a second. I hadn't even realized how frustrating the UX of the kindle OS was until I realized the hardware was capable of feeling snappy.
There's obviously a lot you need to provide yourself that Amazon gives "for free" with the Kindle ecosystem, but using koreader with OPDS and kosync for synchronizing progress across devices, I'm very happy to be just buying DRM-free books elsewhere and hosting a small OPDS+kosync server on my home server. Installing tailscale on my kindle makes it so I can even fetch books/sync progress when I'm away from home without needing to expose my book server to the internet.
What extra features has over regular kindle software? I find kindle features enough but I want to know if I’m missing something
As someone who thought the same (stock was enough for me) until I had some free time and switched, here are some things I'm really enjoying, in no particular order:
- Format support: EPUB, CBR/CBZ (comics, graphic novels), PDF
- Dark mode
- Fully programmable gestures and shortcuts
- Automatically syncs with my readeck instance (think readitlater/instapaper) to dowload the articles I save for example here on HN
- Calibre integration over wifi
- RSS/Atom
- Custom dictionaries
If you are into manga, there is an extension for directly downloading them on the device
I'm really happy I made the switch.
What's the point of Dark mode on an eink screen?
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Being able to put epubs bought elsewhere and reading them without needing to convert the files is a huge plus
Where do you buy your epubs from?
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Kindle already supports that, or at least my 5 years old vanilla Kindle can.
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Stuff which may be above the kindle stock features (as seen on Paperwhite 10):
- Allowing to highlight text across pages. Used to work in the past but no longer works
- Allowing exit to library from mobi files without a cold reboot of the device. Used to work, no longer works.
- Not deleting contents of my library on an update overnight? (files still on disk, metadata gone, no longer visible on Kindle)
- consistently working dictionary, offline, at least for English texts? (used to mostly work, with recent updates it is broken)
- Not getting worse on every update
- Better keyboard layout, maybe supporting smaller languages
- Not deleting purchased books remotely
- better bookmarks and navigation support. I find Kindle useless for the technical reading and learning materials, as navigation and cross-referencing is slow clunky and useless, I need paper books for that, or a computer.
- Better image display? Also hinders proper use for digesting technical content.
- Text Search?
- EPUB support.
- Better and faster UI. I always thought the Kindle was just slow, nope, it's just really bad software
- Customise any/everything. Font size, line spacing, paragraph spacing, margins, header/footer content, the list goes on
- Ability to use things like BookOrbit (or alternatives) to manage your books and sync your progress/stats.
- LLM-integration through plugins like KOAssistant, highlight a word/phrase/passage to get it explained to you. This was invaluable for me when reading through a series from the 1950's about the late 1700's, lots of phrases I'd never heard. Many I could grasp the meaning from context but it was way more fun to hear the "why" behind the phrase. Same with historical events that I am less knowledgeable about than I wish. Let's me stay "in the book" instead of picking up my phone.
- Full control, some people don't care/need this but I love being able to SSH into my Kindle and do whatever I want. I love having my entire book reading experience end-to-end be fully open source and self-hosted.
Ability to use things like BookOrbit (or alternatives) to manage your books and sync your progress/stats
I discovered BookOrbit about two months ago. I think that it, together with the KOReader plugin that exposes the remote BO UI, may turn out to be a game changer in how I organize and access my ebook repository.
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Thanks for the BookOrbit hint. Seems very interesting.
I see it supports audiobooks and ebooks. Do you know if there is any way for keeping sync between an audiobook and ebook?
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IMO the most important one is more options for PDF rendering, often allowing you to read PDFs without squinting.
Well tbh the reason I like it has to do more with calibre (free software)
Never updating if you don't want an update. I see no reason for my e-reader to have updates. I have a Kobo and after I updated it once about 5 years ago I haven't since because it already does everything I need it to.
Not only is it the superior piece of software, the freedom it offers by dissociating the choice of hardware from the choice of software is another example why free software and interoperability is something we should strive for.
Funnily koreader comes with a lot of features that are useless to me, but I love that I can just disable the respective plugins.
I like the Readwise integration via plugin and the EPUB support, but for the first few days with it, I was busy understanding the menu hierarchy and trying to figure out how to match the styling and spacing of my native Kindle books. The out-of-the-box experience is unfortunately just "tasteless," and I needed some time to warm up to it.
Yeah and like the majority of open source software, the UI is garbage and unintuitive.
It shows reading stats that I absolutely love!!