UEFA and its national associations will not participate in FIFA competitions

2 hours ago (uefa.com)

Infantino clearly wants to see FIFA making billions so he and many others can pocket millions legally. But the only way for this to happen in a non-corrupt way, given that FIFA is non-profit and therefore requires a lot of questionable operations, is to turn FIFA into a business like NFL / MLS.

The problem with that is that it then it is no longer a sport, rather a... business.

UEFA letter is spot on.

This is so highly unusual even sports-allergic HN wants to discuss it. It's like a religious schism in some sense.

About time

Hard to think of a modern institution as corrupt as fifa. That may not bother too many people because it’s not their government, but I just think it stinks

  • FIFA has been monstrously corrupt since at least as far back as the 1970s (Havelange).

    I backslid this year, but did completely boycott watching in 2018 and 2022. Russia is a pariah state and should never have been allowed to host, and Qatar was manifestly unsuitable.

    The only difference this year is that the bribery and political favors were out in the open.

    • There are levels to it. Sepp Blatter was notoriously corrupt, but Infantino makes his "envelope full of cash under the table" style of corruption look amateurish.

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  • > Hard to think of a modern institution as corrupt as fifa

    IOC is about the only organisation that comes close to it I think.

    • Interestingly, both FIFA and IOC are headquartered in Switzerland, a country that is ranked by Transparency International as one least corrupt countries in the world… Draw you own conclusions.

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Why only now? UEFA should boycott the world cup, period. It should have been enough even before the Balogun nonsense. They have the best league and the best teams, they have the know how and could easily host the UEFA World Cup.

They could host a tournament without the pay-to-win arbitrary overruling of red cards and the clownish half time entertainment. Nobody would care about the FIFA World Cup.

Fork it!

I'm so happy to see they care enough to take a stand. The last World Cup was a sh-t show. I expect the LA olympics to be no better.

  • How was it a shit show? I’m genuinely curious. I attended 5 games (Atlanta, LA and Dallas) and was a fantastic experience minus the process to get tickets.

    • Not OP, but I would guess: "hydration breaks" to inject commercials, half-time shows that felt alien to much of the core audience, and various rule-bending shenanigans (Ronaldo, Balogun).

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    • The Iranian team’s treatment is a prime example. The Somalian ref being denied entrance is another. And the Balogun red card is a double example (it shouldn’t have been a red card in the first place, but the precedent that the President of the host country can get a call overturned is even worse).

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    • The ticket prices and scalping (sorry, authorized re-selling to find the market clearing price) were robbery.

    • The football itself wasn't bad, it was all the other stuff - prices, unfair treatment for Iran, hydration breaks, the whole Balogun thing, the pre-game and half-time shows at the final, Trump photo-bombing the Spanish celebration, etc. Every WC has its own problems and some of these things will be forgotten about soon, but it definitely seemed more ruthlessly commercialised than ever before.

    • Maybe the way that Infantino nakedly advanced political favors for Trump (the f×××ing peace prize, Folarin f×××ing Balogun) and now wants a fat slice of payback?

It's only a matter of time before there are sponsors on the Yellow and Red cards...

  • “Looks like this is a card. He already has a yellow (sponsored by Qatar Airwaves), and may be looking at his second. YES! he is receiving is second yellow, this time sponsored by Universal Studio, and here is the red card. Sponsored by Red Bull. He is leaving this game and his team mates one down.”

    Second commentator: “It is true, Red Bull gives you wings. In this case, the wings only take you to the shower room.”

  • I follow a local team and don’t really follow the larger picture, but injuries are sponsored, i always thought that would produce a perverse incentive.

    EDIT: not sure why i’m getting downvoted, they post up the injured player on the screens with a private medical company prominently displayed.

Why is this out of the gate bad? Note that this is not taking FIFA to private equity, but creating an investors owned subsidiary to run events and commercial operations where the non profit arm will still own 80% of it. With the right protections it could help FIFA make more money and reinvest in the sport, particularly women’s football. FIFA currently makes 40% of what the NHL makes, not the NFL, not NBA. Soccer is by far the most popular sport on the planet, the fact that it makes a lot less money than hockey is insane.

  • Why is it bad to sell 20% of the biggest tournament in the world to a private company lead by people involved with the most corrupt administration in the history of the US? The model has been working fine for decades, why does it matter that it makes less than american sports?

    • The most beloved, most watched sport in the world making less than the American/Canadian hockey league is a commercial failure. Non profits are generally inefficient at running businesses. With the right guardrails a private arm that knows how to run a business could help FIFA make a ton of money. And yes a lot of rich guys will become even richer too, so what?

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  • > FIFA currently makes 40% of what the NHL makes, not the NFL, not NBA.

    FIFA holds one significant money-making tournament for a month every 4 years (all due respect to the Women's World Cup in terms of prestige, but its revenue is a small fraction of the Men's World Cup). The NHL runs 6 months a year annually.

    • That’s part of their poor commercial vision. Even the World Cup brings less revenue than one season of the NBA. Doesn’t even make sense to compare it with the NFL.

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  • NHL/NFL/NBA are national leagues, the FIFA world cup a tournament that takes place every four years. You’re comparing apples and pears.

  • > Soccer is by far the most popular sport on the planet, the fact that it makes a lot less money than hockey is insane.

    The NFL makes much less money than nVidia The world has gone mad! That's just insane.

  • don't be naive. Never in the history of humanity did corrupt billionaire pedophiles do anything help the sport/fans/women/..... They want a piece to get the foot in the door. 10 years from now, we wont even recognise football anymore.

    I don't care what american billionaires make with nhl/nfl/..., hands fucking off of football.

  • > Soccer is by far the most popular sport on the planet, the fact that it makes a lot less money than hockey is insane.

    Maybe fans would prefer that it stayed that way.. making just enough money to keep the sport going, without the profit motive.

I think the mandatory ad break introduced by FIFA at the World Cup was also too much for most football people, not just fans. Changed too much, broke the dynamics, basically the sport became a game of 4 quarters instead of 2 halves. These two things combined together are just over the top and unacceptable (UEFA already said they won't use these mandatory ad breaks anywhere)

This is the closest where I can see a future where we have a rugby union / rugby league like schism.

Oh and guess who is behind the investment group: https://apnews.com/article/world-cup-fifa-investors-kushner-...

  • I agree completely with your assessment of the water breaks, but the games were extremely entertaining and I watched as much as I could.

  • Of all the things wrong with the World Cup, the most inconsequential ones - hydration breaks and the final half-time show - have attracted the most griping.

    • Changing the pauses of the game alters the momentum and, as consequence, the results. How is that “inconsequential”? There have been cases of corrupted referees before, but violating the Laws of the Game in plain sight is an unprecedented attack on the sport.

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    • I don't mean to be disrespectful but this is a dumb statement. Do you think splitting each half in 2 quarters doesn't have an impact on how the game is played?

    • > the most inconsequential ones

      This is like saying “customers aren’t worried enough about the corporate process - they only care about the end product!”

    • the mandatory ad breaks were usa-level bullshit that never happened before, not even when they were playing in the fucking desert (and that world cup should have been boycotted too, but for different reasons.)

      a few years ago when the momentum was moving towards tennis, some european clubs proposed a "super league" comprising of only the elite teams, the purpose was again to maximize ad profits (and i should go back to check who actually proposed it, who they were affiliated with). That time they were suggested not to proceed, or else they would be boycotted from all other events, the players too. That was also a good decision.

      football (not handegg) it already corrupt enough as it is, and too much money is flowing into it, it's incredible and heart warming that there is still some dignity left in the associations.

  • Why would non-fans even care? It was a 3 minute break, non-fans would not have any idea that you were going for 2 halves to 4 "quarters". I think this is the kind of thing purists care about but most people don't, most don't even know it is new.

    • I'm most certainly not a football fan, but I definitely know that a match consists of two 45 minute (and then some) halves. It's pretty much equivalent to a non motor enthusiast knowing that there are usually four wheels on a car.

      I'd say this is very, very common knowledge in huge parts of the world. It's not something only enthusiasts and purists know.

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    • > non-fans would not have any idea that you were going for 2 halves to 4 "quarters"

      … By non-fans do you mean people who have literally never heard of football, or something? I’m very far from a fan, no interest at all. But, I mean, I know there are two halves. Everybody knows that.

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I secretly hope that Infantino goes ahead with it anyway. UEFA and others will form something new. Something that replaces the incredibly broken and corrupted FIFA with a de-facto and de-jure non-profit governing body.

  • Then you would have two corrupt organizing bodies.

    Something similar happened with FIDE (chess) in the Kasparov years. I believe FIDE is still headquartered in a dodgy dictatorship in Central-asia-stan.

    And I've lost count how many global boxing organizations there are, seemingly in competition with each other to minimize sporting legitimacy and financial transparency.

The same UEFA that added redundant matches and teams to the Champions League for money, and that came up with the Nations League because they wanted to extract more money from the national teams?

  • And attempted to hive off the best teams into a super league, even though this would have destroyed national leagues across the continent.

It's crazy that as despicable an organization as UEFA is, they're still far better than FIFA.

Infantino has been a disgrace, I hope they manage to get rid of him, but I have very little hope.

  • I don't follow any sport, but I actually don't understand why UEFA and FIFA are non-profits when all the American leagues (MLB, NBA, NFL) are for-profit corporations. It seems to work well in America.

    • > It seems to work well in America.

      Does it? Who does it work out well for? Franchises continuously extort tax-payer funds for stadia,some team switches host cities every few years, and the for-profit corporations are legal cartels that decides who gets to own a team. The number of ad-breaks is horrendous to anyone who's watched sports elsewhere.

    • MLB & NFL only changed to for-profit organisations somewhat recently (2007, 2015). afaict NBA has always been for-profit.

      Internationally the standard is non-profits. Most sports have both their international organisations and highest standard of play organisations as non-profits - football, tennis, golf, cricket. The international components of baseball, american football, and basketball are all non-profits (though they are lower standards of play than the US internal leagues).

    • American sports leagues are also non-profit organizations. Profits go to the individual teams. So no, FIFA should not be run by private equity firms.

    • Because they were designed to be decentralised federations, atop the footballing body in each country. More generally, the US is the most capitalist country, whereas the rest of the world does automatically see capitalism as justified, superior or inevitable.

      Lastly, football is a grassroots participation sport that is seen by its fans as more of a religion than a conventional act of entertainment. Of course, religion in the US is also often for-profit, but hopefully you get the point.

    • Are they? Their revenues are limited and they can’t really extend their influence outside USA. Meanwhile European games are watched globally

Football/soccer is one place where Europe can easily flex their muscles against American capitalism and corruption. Good on them for saying it loud and clear.

  • I'm not convinced. There's already plenty of large clubs in Europe owned by foreign capital and those clubs have already tried to push a pan-European league for themselves. I can see the FIFA using those teams as leverage to gain a foothold in Europe without UEFA.

    * e.g. Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Paris SG, AC Milan and Inter Milan -- in Spain, individual clubs can't be owned by private equity but the La Liga corporation is)

  • This is a joke, right? I can’t think of any league as blatantly corrupt as FIFA on any level.

    • What are you on about? FIFA is not a league and certainly not in charge of european football

Yes, but isn't football already overly commercialised? Why is advertising for sports betting or alcohol any better than the FIFA issue? UEFA should take a look at itself, too.

ELI5? What are the factors and implications?

  • FIFA made ludicrous amounts of money as a non profit running the last World Cup and want to transition to a for profit corporation to make even more.

    UEFA representing the European nations with the most competitive teams and many of the biggest stars, just told them good luck running a World Cup without us.

CONCACAF too

  • Right, IIRC they basically banned everybody in Trinidad from FIFA and relocated the HQ.

    It didn't help that Chuck Blazer just looked like a pedophile. Not sure if it's a coincidence that he lived in Trump tower. He had two apartments there, one for his cats.

Good calls. Honestly, the last World Cup already had way too many unwatchable matches before the quarterfinals. And the hydration pauses to sell more ads. And that halftime show during the final.

I find the UEFA standpoint a little disingenuous since commercial interests have been a top priority in football (soccer) for decades. Claiming that allowing investors to participate will hurt the sport are at the very least a misrepresentation of the current situation.

Although I disagree with his methods and goals I enjoy watching the way Infantino uses power play to stack the cards in his favor.

The only way for the UEFA to reclaim authority would be to demand two-thirds voting rights. The model of "one country, one vote" clearly works to UEFA's disadvantage even though its clubs contribute the majority of FIFA's income.

  • Yes, it's a stretch to believe that UEFA is objecting strictly on a point of principle.

    UEFA seems to think people have forgotten that they tried to buy off top teams from the national organizations into a European super league.

    In effect they did it anyway with CL.

It seems like Europe, yet again, have to stand up for ethics, morality and try to deflect corruption. It's so tiresome.

The FA's worldwide don't need FIFA, they can set up a new world tournament. You will get a lot of poor nations who stick with FIFA for the cash but at the end of the day without European teams the world cup and FIFA will have minimal value. 5 of the last 6 world cup winners were european and it will only get more biased towards Europe. Argentina post Messi have no chance, and Brazil are the furthest away from winning than they ever have been.

  • > Argentina post Messi have no chance

    Hold my beer

    • Spain have a far more youthful side, who can easily win again. France will come back, as will England. Argentina have few players coming through and many stars will have retired by the next tournament, even youthful Alvarez will be 30 next time out.

  • FAs coming together and creating a new FIFA will just mean you get another organization that is exactly as corruption-ridden as FIFA. There's no point starting fresh if you don't fix the underlying problem.

Europe is where all the money is made in football. UEFA just want more of the pie.

FIFA is a repulsive pit of corruption but UEFA isn't much better.

Remember Blatter and Platini?

  • Blatter was president of FIFA, not UEFA.

    • Yes, and when Blatter was investigated for corruption both he and Platini, president of UEFA, were banned.

      This was barely 10 years ago, it's not ancient history.

      Platini is still suing Infantino now.

FIFA is just upholding western values. Profit, exploitation and money over everything else. They with FIA and likes are just showing the world what truly matters for western world.

  • American values, not western.

    • We're really going to act like the entire world doesn't have issues with this.

      Given this is a worldwide institution dealing with this, I think you are both casting the new too small.

      Famously before either the US or Western world, these values were never celebrated.

  • Put it this way - Europeans don't generally call themselves from "the West" in 2026 - it's an American geopolitical fantasy.

[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49112089

Cue UEFA's leadership being replaced in the next year or two. FIFA has had a taste of the amount of money involved in professional sports. There's no going back.

  • FIFA has been spectacularly corrupt since at least thd 1970s, and UEFA is not far behind.

    When Blatter was kicked out of FIFA for corruption, the USA provided a legal venue for the investigation. Between Infantino and Trump you would think that is off the table.

    Expect some kind of back door deal.

  • 50 of the 55 member UEFA states took the floor to express their outrage at FIFA, this is not a matter of UEFA leadership being out of touch. The vast majority of the confederation is ready to walk.

    • I understand that this is a principled stand by UEFA, no doubt about it. But the amount of money in the offering is too large for the clubs (and their superstars) to snub their noses at it. When it comes down to money, principles are the first to be bought and sold.