Comment by buran77
7 hours ago
> a sufficiently complex consumer or enterprise app winds up having big performance problems if people don't know what they're doing w.r.t. the code they write and how they connect systems together with that code.
On those complex systems in particular the problems start long before any code is written.
A software engineer can create and understand the specs, requirements, design the system, architectural decisions, define everything about that software and data, model everything, failure, performance, operational topics, documents everything, etc. before a single line of code is written, and of course they can write good code. Then there are the coders who patch together chunks of code from Stack Overflow or whatever boilerplate they have in the company's repository. I know every coder likes to call themselves a "software engineer" but there's a world of difference between the two types.
For the first group code was never the hardest part. For the second group there was never any other part.
I think most people who write code are the latter and not the former. The industry has diluted the term "engineer" so much that they maybe don't even realise that traditional engineering projects are about more than just implementation work.
No they can’t do everything before writing a line of code. The design and requirements feed into the code and vice-versa over and over through the lifecycle of a piece of software.
Some architecture work and design will be done beforehand, but many details will fall into place as the code is being written, thrown away, adapted, etc.
The idea that code is mere transcription - which I see a lot in these AI discussions - is completely false. Code is a form of low-level design and is where the rubber hits the road.
The best requirements, designs, marketing, etc are worth jack if one fucks up the code. The code is the actual product.
> but many details
Which part of my list was just "a detail" to be dealt with at some point in the lifecycle (but only if you're not too busy shipping features) for you? You're laying bricks before knowing if the wall's supposed to be concrete.
> Code is a form of low-level design and is where the rubber hits the road.
Sure but in keeping with your analogy tires are fungible across most cars and it takes minutes to change one if you picked the wrong compound. It takes years to properly design a tire, not to speak of everything that sits on top of those tires. By the time you actually "meet the road" you already defined to a tee what you want to achieve from every perspective and everything you do is to meet that goal, even if you have to make tweaks. You don't find out if it's a scooter or a roadster tire while working on it.
> The best requirements, designs, marketing, etc are worth jack if one fucks up the code.
Why are you mixing some fundamental things which are essential and can't be changed along the way without massive effort and risk, if at all, with things like marketing?
Do you want to aimlessly write code while chasing a target that moves randomly and conflicting because your plan was to define things "at some point"? You're really making my point with your insistence that it's all about code and every other fundamental thing is "a detail" that just comes along the way.
In my experience, the parent's view and your view are an example of the divide between the Silicon Valley / startup mindset -- it doesn't need to last, it just needs to get us a paycheck so we can go on to the next paycheck -- and actual software engineering where people build resilient systems meant for humans to use for a long time.
There's a conflation too that to approach things with this level of thought and care requires waterfall design (it doesn't), so people shrug it off or resist because if you want to think carefully and design thoughtfully you can't also Move Fast and Break Things.
Ironically, we all complain about enshittification.
How does not everyone understand this? It's why waterfall development never worked.