I agree, yeah, SQL syntax is awful. But the easier solution is what pretty much what backend has converged on, have something in your backend programming language that lowers to SQL so you never have to write any raw SQL at all except as a low-level escape hatch, so that in most instances SQL just becomes an IR that nobody really needs to think about in normal application code.
I don't take it as too-much-syntax in the brain[0], but all of the problems bad syntax causes. We could still be writing code in assembly, but we have found that different languages make things easier or safer to construct.
I can trivially handle having to repeatedly bounce to the top-then-to-the-bottom of a query I am writing because I want to change the group-by or sorting order, but that is annoying friction. Since the language does not compose well, you need to keep most of the query in your head and cannot build it up piecemeal as easily as something like PRQL (https://prql-lang.org/)
[0] Although, it would be incredible if I could write timestamp formatting without having to look up the bespoke vendor incantation every time I switch dialects.
The difficulties that even experienced programmers have with SQL are far more than just the syntax. And, given what most people need the database for, that difficulty is pretty disproportionate to the complexity of the task.
I think the “it’s just syntax bro, learn it!” critique is about as ill-fitting as the claim that embedding a scripting language in a larger program is pointless because “assembly/C89 is just syntax bro, learn it!”
I take what you’re saying about difficulty being disproportionate to the task as an indicator of ability.
It’s literally so damn simple to knock out a database & some crud functions either as a desktop app or a website that the complaints in this thread are hilarious.
Not even an old man rant SQL isn't that hard to learn. I never had a problem with the syntax. Not everything needs to look like C. Remember when every complained about Python's whitespace indenting? Seems like everyone got over it.
I agree, yeah, SQL syntax is awful. But the easier solution is what pretty much what backend has converged on, have something in your backend programming language that lowers to SQL so you never have to write any raw SQL at all except as a low-level escape hatch, so that in most instances SQL just becomes an IR that nobody really needs to think about in normal application code.
Are we really this devolved as coders? We can’t handle different syntaxes? We need LLMs to write queries? What the heck is going on with our industry?
Old man rant off.
I don't take it as too-much-syntax in the brain[0], but all of the problems bad syntax causes. We could still be writing code in assembly, but we have found that different languages make things easier or safer to construct.
I can trivially handle having to repeatedly bounce to the top-then-to-the-bottom of a query I am writing because I want to change the group-by or sorting order, but that is annoying friction. Since the language does not compose well, you need to keep most of the query in your head and cannot build it up piecemeal as easily as something like PRQL (https://prql-lang.org/)
[0] Although, it would be incredible if I could write timestamp formatting without having to look up the bespoke vendor incantation every time I switch dialects.
Does CTE not allow composability?
The difficulties that even experienced programmers have with SQL are far more than just the syntax. And, given what most people need the database for, that difficulty is pretty disproportionate to the complexity of the task.
I think the “it’s just syntax bro, learn it!” critique is about as ill-fitting as the claim that embedding a scripting language in a larger program is pointless because “assembly/C89 is just syntax bro, learn it!”
I take what you’re saying about difficulty being disproportionate to the task as an indicator of ability.
It’s literally so damn simple to knock out a database & some crud functions either as a desktop app or a website that the complaints in this thread are hilarious.
Not even an old man rant SQL isn't that hard to learn. I never had a problem with the syntax. Not everything needs to look like C. Remember when every complained about Python's whitespace indenting? Seems like everyone got over it.
Syntax affects readability and writing speed a lot