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Comment by bpodgursky

3 hours ago

This number is before transfers, you really cannot just look at the raw income. A family of 2 adult 2 kid making $22,500 in raw income makes more like $48,700 after refundable tax credits, SNAP, housing, etc [1].

https://www.google.com/search?q=average+us+income+including+...

Take a step back.

A family of 4 with $22,500 in income is well below the poverty line in the US, which is ~$33,000/year.

But do you think a family of 2 adults and 2 children with a "feels like" income of $50,000 is still not scraping by in the US? That's basic survival at best.

  • As someone who grew up below the poverty line for much of my life — 2x the poverty line seemed like wealth to me. There are absolutely people getting by on “feels like” 50k a year.

    There are not really frills, but in terms of “have shelter and food” it can work. Not everywhere is SF.

    • "Have shelter and food" is surviving. That's the point.

      And speaking of food, the USDA says that over 47 million Americans lived in a food insecure household in 2024. That's 1 in 7 people. In the world's richest country that prides itself on being the land of opportunity.

      5 replies →

  • As someone who lived much of their life in real poverty, you can live a pretty decent life on $50k in most of the US. Yeah, you won’t be posting your vacations on Instagram but who cares. Many people live a decent life within these income constraints. There is an enormous amount of government subsidies if you are this poor.

    Don’t exaggerate what is required for a decent quality of life in America. It doesn’t benefit anyone.

    • That’s not a decent quality of life. I know you may feel differently and find it hard to think about it objectively because you lived it, but you had a poor quality of life. It’s great that you’re doing well and you made it through, but don’t romanticize it.

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    • > ...you can live a pretty decent life on $50k in most of the US.

      Where? And what's the size of the household?

      It's one thing to make $50,000/year as a single young person sharing an apartment with 2 other people. It's another to be a family of 4.

      > Don’t exaggerate what is required for a decent quality of life in America. It doesn’t benefit anyone.

      "Decent" is subjective, but we can look at hard numbers.

      After taxes, $50,000 will be somewhere between $39,000 and $42,000 in much of the US. That's $3,250 to $3,500/month. The median rental price of a 1 bedroom apartment in the US is about $1,500. A 2 bedroom is somewhere around or north of $1,800. That means the median 1 bedroom apartment already eats up almost 50% of your after-tax income at the lower end.

      According to BLS, the average spend on groceries in the US is now over $500/month. The average cost of a used car in the US is now over $25,000. A set of new tires will run you $400 to over $1,000. The average cell phone bill is $140/month.

      Do I need to keep going?

      Numerous studies show that over half of Americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck and almost three-quarters of middle income earners say their wages aren't keeping up with the cost of living.

      What doesn't benefit anyone is to pretend that tons of people aren't struggling.

      7 replies →