Comment by godelski

6 days ago

Norman Doors.

Good design communicates even without language. It is reasonable to see a toggle switch and think it... you know... toggles. The same reason you see a handle on a door a pill before you read the sign that says push. The sign is literally there because the physical design is telling you something different. It is literally mixed signals.

Apple could have done many different things to make the design clearer. Hell, if they really wanted to keep the toggle like design, make it look like a spring.

But no matter what, the current design is abhorrent because they use the same design language for a temporary toggle and a real toggle. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why people get confused. It is also crazy considering how much Apple prides themselves on design. If it was good design, you wouldn't need the sign...

9 comments

godelski

ButlerianJihad 6 days ago

https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Spacecraft#Haggunenon_Ad...

  Marvin was able to touch the surface of the ship and open up an entry hatchway, and the interior of the ship was completely black. There were black controls labelled in black, on a black background, with a little light that lit up black, which made it difficult to control the ship. The ceiling and walls of the swaying cabin were also black, as well as the seats, control panel, the instruments and the little screws that held them in place. The thin tufted nylon floor covering was black, and when a corner of the foam underlay was lifted up that was also discovered to be was black.

Obscurity4340 6 days ago

Notice the bluetooth toggle only says it disconnects bluetooth devices until tomorrow. It doesnt turn off bluetooth because there is a profit incentive to keep all devices meshing for use in FindMy and AirTags and all that.

Same with WiFi. It doesnt even turn WiFi off, it just "disconnects" but keeps WiFi searching and whatever else. Why not have the option to make the toggle actually do the same thing as having to go all the way to Settings to do when the intention is clear and obvious?

Why does it take 2 presses and going a level deep to turn off something when the easy toggle makes it so smooth and easy to turn on which is conveniently the behavior they want

godelski 6 days ago

I'd claim it is a bit worse. They use dark patterns here. You can see in another sibling's comment that we disagree on this but I think Apple is teaching the user the wrong thing. And I agree with you that actually disabling is confusing and difficult unless you've already learned their pattern. But at that point it is still needlessly cumbersome, which I'd still call a dark pattern

gf000 6 days ago

Could you sketch a spring-loaded button? I just have a hard time imagining how could this time dimension be added properly to a button - not that I would disagree with you in general.

Also, is this really different from a button that reflects state? E.g. you have a battery saver button that automatically turns on at <20%, is that fundamentally different than a button that resets to a given value at 0:00? I genuinely don't know, just asking questions here.

godelski 6 days ago

For the sideways toggle switches, the usual single line.
For the buttons when you pull down the menu, literally any physical change would help, not just color and a message. Highlight the circular edge and make it work like a count down. Make it a polygon instead of a circle. Rotate the symbol in that count down. There's a million ways to do it differently

bayindirh 6 days ago

> Good design communicates even without language. It is reasonable to see a toggle switch and think it... you know... toggles.

Yes, good design needs no language. However, it's not reasonable to see a toggle and think it's a permanent toggle. Esp, when it's a button. There are many buttons in the world which doesn't toggle. In iOS, a toggle is also different from a button.

> Apple could have done many different things to make the design clearer.

They did, actually. They added clear messaging, think about a LCD screen on top of a button, and have iconography communicating the status clearly.

> But no matter what, the current design is abhorrent...

I'll respectfully disagree here with you.

> ...because they use the same design language for a temporary toggle and a real toggle.

Sorry to disagree, but this is not true:

    - Enabled: Blue background
    - Temporary disconnect: White background
    - Disable: Line through icon.

Also, again, a real toggle has a different design in iOS, you know, which looks like a Braun inspired sliding switch.

godelski 6 days ago
> In iOS, a toggle is also different from a button.
Yet they're all circles
> They added clear messaging
And it's common to put pull/push signs on doors. That doesn't fix design.
> Sorry to disagree, but this is not true:
If that was enough we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's not a few people being annoyed/confused either. I'd wager if you asked professional designers outside Apple that they'd agree that they don't communicate well.
They're inconsistent:
- Radio buttons are blue when on but white when temporary disabled - all other buttons are white while enabled - cellular is green when enabled - battery saver is yellow when enabled - airplane mode is orange when enabled - the icon is red for rotate lock and silent - white background means both enabled and temporary disabled - on most of the radio buttons they're blue when enabled and white when temporary, no off - on others (vpn, rotate, silent, battery, etc) white background while enabled - personal hotspot, satellite, silent, and automotive cues have a cross out when disabled - nothing else does - that includes radio things like VPN and airplane
Do I really need to continue? I trust you can find more on your own.
I also want to remind you that some people are colorblind.
Additionally that there are shapes other than circles and ellipses
- bayindirh 5 days ago
  
  > If that was enough we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's not a few people being annoyed/confused either. I'd wager if you asked professional designers outside Apple that they'd agree that they don't communicate well.
  Maybe we can try, why not?
  > Do I really need to continue? I trust you can find more on your own.
  I mean, I'm a bit tired right now, but will try tomorrow.
  > They're inconsistent:
  I don't think so: Anything broadcasts signal is blue, anything cellular is green, and since Airplane mode disables every radio transmission, it's orange. It makes sense for me.
  > white background means both enabled and temporary disabled.
  If something is enabled with a white background, it's icon has color. If something is temporarily disabled, its icon becomes transparent.
  > personal hotspot, satellite, silent, and automotive cues have a cross out when disabled
  Is it only my stupid brain thinks that a cross out means "unavailable", independent of the reason? It may have been turned off, can't be turned on.
  Also, many of the radio-related settings has text next to it. Not available, turned off, disabled, etc.
  > I also want to remind you that some people are colorblind.
  Thanks for reminding me the following:
  - Settings -> Accessibility -> Display & Text Size -> Differentiate without color. - Settings -> Accessibility -> Display & Text Size -> Color filters.
  I have seen device used by a completely blind person who only communicated with the device via touch and voice. It was slow (phone has to talk a lot), but he was not incapable. He used it way better than me.
  So, I'll be dead honest: I'm happy with the design language of current iPhone. Is it perfect? No, but its use of color and clustering things make me way faster on using it. A regular grid with thin icons as used in Android is way more slower for my tiny brain, I'm not intelligent, sorry.
  We might not agree, and we don't have to. This is what propels world forward, but we don't have to be this angry while disagreeing. We talked about cardiac arrest with a friend today. It's painful for everyone involved.
  
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