Comment by bayindirh

6 days ago

> Good design communicates even without language. It is reasonable to see a toggle switch and think it... you know... toggles.

Yes, good design needs no language. However, it's not reasonable to see a toggle and think it's a permanent toggle. Esp, when it's a button. There are many buttons in the world which doesn't toggle. In iOS, a toggle is also different from a button.

> Apple could have done many different things to make the design clearer.

They did, actually. They added clear messaging, think about a LCD screen on top of a button, and have iconography communicating the status clearly.

> But no matter what, the current design is abhorrent...

I'll respectfully disagree here with you.

> ...because they use the same design language for a temporary toggle and a real toggle.

Sorry to disagree, but this is not true:

    - Enabled: Blue background
    - Temporary disconnect: White background
    - Disable: Line through icon.

Also, again, a real toggle has a different design in iOS, you know, which looks like a Braun inspired sliding switch.

3 comments

bayindirh

godelski 6 days ago

  > In iOS, a toggle is also different from a button.

Yet they're all circles

  > They added clear messaging

And it's common to put pull/push signs on doors. That doesn't fix design.

  > Sorry to disagree, but this is not true:

If that was enough we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's not a few people being annoyed/confused either. I'd wager if you asked professional designers outside Apple that they'd agree that they don't communicate well.

They're inconsistent:

  - Radio buttons are blue when on but white when temporary disabled
    - all other buttons are white while enabled
    - cellular is green when enabled
    - battery saver is yellow when enabled
    - airplane mode is orange when enabled
    - the icon is red for rotate lock and silent
  - white background means both enabled and temporary disabled 
    - on most of the radio buttons they're blue when enabled and white when temporary, no off 
    - on others (vpn, rotate, silent, battery, etc) white background while enabled
  - personal hotspot, satellite, silent, and automotive cues have a cross out when disabled 
    - nothing else does
      - that includes radio things like VPN and airplane

Do I really need to continue? I trust you can find more on your own.

I also want to remind you that some people are colorblind.

Additionally that there are shapes other than circles and ellipses

bayindirh 6 days ago
> If that was enough we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's not a few people being annoyed/confused either. I'd wager if you asked professional designers outside Apple that they'd agree that they don't communicate well.
Maybe we can try, why not?
> Do I really need to continue? I trust you can find more on your own.
I mean, I'm a bit tired right now, but will try tomorrow.
> They're inconsistent:
I don't think so: Anything broadcasts signal is blue, anything cellular is green, and since Airplane mode disables every radio transmission, it's orange. It makes sense for me.
> white background means both enabled and temporary disabled.
If something is enabled with a white background, it's icon has color. If something is temporarily disabled, its icon becomes transparent.
> personal hotspot, satellite, silent, and automotive cues have a cross out when disabled
Is it only my stupid brain thinks that a cross out means "unavailable", independent of the reason? It may have been turned off, can't be turned on.
Also, many of the radio-related settings has text next to it. Not available, turned off, disabled, etc.
> I also want to remind you that some people are colorblind.
Thanks for reminding me the following:
- Settings -> Accessibility -> Display & Text Size -> Differentiate without color. - Settings -> Accessibility -> Display & Text Size -> Color filters.
I have seen device used by a completely blind person who only communicated with the device via touch and voice. It was slow (phone has to talk a lot), but he was not incapable. He used it way better than me.
So, I'll be dead honest: I'm happy with the design language of current iPhone. Is it perfect? No, but its use of color and clustering things make me way faster on using it. A regular grid with thin icons as used in Android is way more slower for my tiny brain, I'm not intelligent, sorry.
We might not agree, and we don't have to. This is what propels world forward, but we don't have to be this angry while disagreeing. We talked about cardiac arrest with a friend today. It's painful for everyone involved.
- godelski 5 days ago
  
  > Anything broadcasts signal is blue
  VPN is blue in the radio box but not if you put it in the main menu. I'd also claim that a VPN doesn't broadcast
  OTOH personal hotspot, which does broadcast, is white.
  I think the display pattern is at least partially location dependent.
  > Thanks for reminding me the following
  Thanks, I didn't know about these. I've only been on an iPhone for 2 years but really missing Android (but not Google).
  Though the first one doesn't seem to do anything for me. What's it supposed to do?
  > A regular grid with thin icons as used in Android is way more slower for my tiny brain
  Android has its own problems lol. I'm not going to say they're perfect. I'll complain about them too.[0]
  > We might not agree, and we don't have to. This is what propels world forward, but we don't have to be this angry while disagreeing.
  You're right, I got too heated, and I'll apologize for that. Thanks for keeping your cool and calling me out. I really respect that and it's something I think we need to do more frequently.
  Because to your bigger point, you're right. No single one of us knows the "perfect solution" (not just one exists). And I'm sorry to hear about your friend.
  [0] I think engineers should always be a little grumpy, because it's how we improve things. We fix our frustrations. But I'm not trying to say angry or hateful. There's productive arguing and fighting.