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Comment by surgical_fire

18 hours ago

If Google does anything good for the world it is entirely accidental, and I am certain they will correct this mistake later.

Market reward is the best proxy for good we have.

What's your alternative? Executive fiat? Mob rule?

Deepmind is objectively good. These endeavors would always cost money. Better private capital than state, no one has to give Google anything. The state is not so generous.

  • Mob rule, aka Democracy.

    • Not what democracy is.

      Every single serious theorist of democracy has recognized this.

      Democracy is about rule of law and institutions, not simply the mob.

      Tyranny of the majority is the paramount concern of all democracies. Nevertheless, institutions can fail.

      The idea that democracy always leads to desirable outcomes is evidently false by historical record.

      I just don't understand people who think the state is better than Google. Google pretty much works. Google does not have police powers. Google cant surround your car and point guns at your family. Most of the bad things about Google are actually forced upon them by the state. Who could have even a passing knowledge of history and think states are somehow safer than corporations?

      Take the United States. Should Donald Trump get a say in how to run Google? Maybe you like him, so how about the guy that comes after him, or the next one after that?

      The American mob seems intent on leading their country into the gutter. Good thing (despite what the mob has thrown at it) that the United States still has strong institutions and strong markets. Without Silicon Valley, America would have already lost its place on the world stage.

      But please lets hear more indictments from a population who can't even agree with itself on the issues already under the government's purview. Now let's set a precedent for even more state interference in the market, that way when your party (whatever side you are on) chokes the next future election away the next nut you don't agree with has even more power? Is that your plan?

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  • > Market reward is the best proxy for good we have.

    Only if the goal is profit. All else be damned.

    > What's your alternative? Executive fiat? Mob rule?

    It is always bewildering to me that people see the world being raped by corporations and their negative externality, and they think that this is the pinnacle that humanity can achieve.

    Nothing else can be better, if all your options are "mob rule" or "executive fiat".

    I fancy myself a misanthrope, but damn, next to people in this forum I am probably the last humanist walking through the ruins of civilization.

    > Deepmind is objectively good.

    Google is objectively bad, and the world would be a much nicer place if they ceased to exist.

    • > It is always bewildering to me that people see the world being raped by corporations and their negative externality, and they think that this is the pinnacle that humanity can achieve.

      > I fancy myself a misanthrope, but damn, next to people in this forum I am probably the last humanist walking through the ruins of civilization.

      A humanist who uses a term of sexual violence so cavalierly?

      If you are in the United States and you want a good civic lesson in state power, you should go to your nearest metropolitan criminal court. Maybe you will have a more accurate view of what government means then. At the very least, you will likely learn to banish such a casual invocation of that word from your lexicon.

      > Nothing else can be better, if all your options are "mob rule" or "executive fiat".

      What we have now is the middle ground between king and mob. It took centuries and much carnage to achieve. Does the famous Churchill quote really need to keep being repeated? Do you have an alternative proposal? Or maybe you have a sensible proposal that falls within the established democratic bounds? Or perhaps instead by "would be a much nicer place if they ceased to exist" we should simply infer a generalized whining rather than any specific policy prescription?

      What's your actual idea, do you have one?

      Maybe if you endeavored to communicate without self-satisfied hyperbole you would find we actually have reason to agree with each other.

  • Executive fiat, given the right executive body, and undergirded by healthy autarkies or other cell-type self-direction, worked well in most locales for most of the years humans have been humans. Certain flashy civilizations, Sumer, Greece, have tended to draw the spotlight incommensurately with their population sizes. But even these functioned much more like what I describe above than anything modern.

    • I found this one of the more entertaining formulations of "back to the land" style sentiments that I have ever come across here, so the downvotes you are getting aside, I thank you for the humor.

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I think they have done some quantifiable good.

Alphafold or Earthquake alerts for example spring to mind.

You could argue about comprehensive "free" services (search, Gmail, YouTube, docs, etc) and "free" browsers and "free" operating systems (yeah plural) being net positives in the world but I know that many people view these as negatives as they (rightly or wrongly) view them as vehicles to sell ads or collect data, but I bet you 100 bucks the typical person on the street using their android phone to search Google, watch YouTube, check their Gmail, write a doc, view photos etc doesn't give a shit about that and values these things - google has ended up as a monopoly as these things are actually pretty useful to people and thus valued, even if we in the tech world disagree with the adtech and data aspects. This monopoly was not a fait acompli or pure market abuse - Nokia, MS, flikr, Hotmail, yahoo etc were all incumbent and market dominant but are now irrelevant because the Google products were viewed as better by end users.