Comment by CamperBob2
19 hours ago
News flash: people who scraped the Internet without permission to build their product complain when something vaguely similar is done to them. Water still wet, sky still blue. Film at 11.
(slibhb: Don't get me wrong, I agree with you 99%. But the frontier labs have zero moral authority here.)
As I understand, they got paid for the traces unlike owners of scraped websites. They sell text generation tool, so what's the problem if someone generates texts using it?
I'd send them the worlds smallest violin but Rufus is getting in the way of me finding it.
I had to install an add-on in Waterfox to stop Rufus from following me around and interjecting every 2 minutes.
I'd already stopped using Amazon for geopolitical reasons but I needed to get something in an emergency the last week (family member in the hospital, so I bent the rule) first time I'd seen Rufus, even if I wasn't boycotting Amazon for other reasons that monstrosity would have made me consider it.
I would not be surprised in the slightest if we later find out they are running those same open models to find useful traces or bits to incorporate into their own training. Lots of rules for thee but not for me from Big Ai
I look forward to a day when open models are so dominant that we stop considering traces to be some form of intellectual property that must be hidden from / manipulated for paying users.
It's that manipulation of inputs and outputs that really rubs me the wrong way
They are copying useful parts of open models 100% especially from deepseek.
Evidence?
I understand people just get off posting stuff like this. But creating LLMs from the entire corpus of human text was a huge achievement. Distilling those models is much less of an achievement. It means China is further behind than we thought.
They're using competitor output as additional training input. Shrug.. It's not like they have access to the weights.
First movers rarely take the prize, though, do they? Les Paul and Mary Ford pioneered overdubbing voices back in the 1940s and 50s. The Beatles stole it from Buddy Holly. And Elton John from the Beatles.
Distilling is a massive achievement. I can run Qwen. I can't run GPT (TM). It's not a matter of X is better than Y. It's a matter of Y exists, X does not.
How is China further behind if distillation cannot stop? I think it's a reasonable strategy to follow, even if they could train from scratch.
distillation results in a worse product than the actual teacher model iirc
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not just the internet, but every commercially published written work in existence, and I doubt their highly publicized destructive scanning thing had managed to legitimize even a fraction of a percent.
this what is permissible for Jupiter is not permissible for a cow bullshit alone should tell people all they need to know about what kind of greasy sociopaths run "open"ai and (mis)anthropic, and how seriously you should take their purported stances on "safety" and other self-serving shit.
For some reason, what China is doing seems worse. Part of it is that I want the US to stay ahead of China.