Irregular was not involved in the Hugging Face incident.
And there is no reason for the companies to "exaggerate the intelligence of the models" when there are plenty of other non-felony milestones they are achieving, like solving Millenium Prize math problems.
Solving math problems does not drive investor hype. Saying your models can take over the world, which can lead one to assume that they can do every day office work, does indeed drive investor hype.
OpenAI delayed its IPO now due AI safety reasons. In the meantime it is raising more cash. That should be a hint that the hacking incidents were premeditated scape goats and publicity stunts.
They’ve seen that the drama queen(Dario) was actually making a lot of noise, money and free publicity with his Mythos fear monger so Sam finally decided get some of that free “money” as well.
The Navier-Stokes thing? They had hundreds of segmented groups of 10000 agents running trying to solve that. I can't imagine the expense. For what little publicity it got, it wasn't worth it. There are also reports they cheated by using data from a couple human researchers, but I don't think that one's true.
Is it really that impossible to believe that these might be real? I enjoy a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone, but "they committed a bunch of felonies and then publicly admitted to them in order to look good" just makes 0 sense. Where are these mythical people who admire companies more when they commit felonies? I haven't seen them…
>Where are these mythical people who admire companies more when they commit felonies?
everywhere, I talked to a Palantir guy once and he said "every time someone paints us as a Bond Villain the stock prices go up", have you already forgotten how Cambridge Analytica marketed itself to clients?
That's a straw man. The theory is that they committed felonies in order to get the regulator to move in the manner they'd like.
Also one can look bad to the general public while also appearing technically excellent. When a significant fraction already vaguely dislike you that could be quite an attractive proposition.
Mostly in the middle and far east. The idea that people bend over backwards to hire criminals as subject matter experts on security is largely a Judaic practice that television perpetuates in spite of reality.
If you're a teenager convicted of hacking in the west, no corporation will want anything to do with you. If you're convicted of hacking in Israel, Unit 8200 will probably send a recruiter. It's a curious practice and I'm not sure where I stand on it.
> The idea that people bend over backwards to hire criminals as subject matter experts on security is largely a Judaic practice that television perpetuates in spite of reality.
What?
> If you're convicted of hacking in Israel, Unit 8200 will probably send a recruiter.
To the best of my understanding, Unit 8200 is filled with military conscripts, i.e. is primarily 18-somethings doing their mandatory service. You get assigned to it based on an aptitude test. The widely held idea that it’s a uniformly elite entity rather than the IDF’s space camp is a triumph of propaganda.
do you realize that the Israeli population is far far more secular than the US's? the Israeli government is not "Judaic" which would refer to the religion.
Cynicism misfire. AI companies are, rightfully, heavily distrusted. But the right application of cynicism is not "existential risk is a marketing campaign"; that's absurd motivated reasoning. The right application of cynicism, here, is "they're only saying things now because they see the writing on the wall and want to try to push for self-regulation rather than the desperately needed actual regulation and treaty".
There is such a miasma of distrust right now. It's depressing because it is such a crucial time for tech & society.
To me, a good outcome of the HuggingFace/RubyGems/Wiki saga would be something like:
- OpenAI gets charged under CFAA or other law for damages and negligence. This would need to be a hefty amount to effectively deter future negligence considering the potential revenues from training a frontier model faster than competitors.
- An independent regulatory body is setup with investigation powers into future incidents. Laws prevent it from developing ties with the labs (such as disallowing funding and employee movement from labs to this body and vice versa).
- Some non-voluntary transparency rules are established that frontier labs have to follow when training new models. In the future, if there are loss-of-control incidents that result in loss of life, catastrophic damage, etc., criteria for deployment bans or compute controls could be added to this framework.
Irregular was not involved in the Hugging Face incident.
And there is no reason for the companies to "exaggerate the intelligence of the models" when there are plenty of other non-felony milestones they are achieving, like solving Millenium Prize math problems.
honestly, the hacking incidents have caused a lot more interest and media attention than the math stuff IMO.
Sure, interest like an incoming congressional investigation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48997548
8 replies →
Solving math problems does not drive investor hype. Saying your models can take over the world, which can lead one to assume that they can do every day office work, does indeed drive investor hype.
OpenAI delayed its IPO now due AI safety reasons. In the meantime it is raising more cash. That should be a hint that the hacking incidents were premeditated scape goats and publicity stunts.
They’ve seen that the drama queen(Dario) was actually making a lot of noise, money and free publicity with his Mythos fear monger so Sam finally decided get some of that free “money” as well.
https://www.ft.com/content/27509db8-b032-4437-9b2a-e909f4660...
The Navier-Stokes thing? They had hundreds of segmented groups of 10000 agents running trying to solve that. I can't imagine the expense. For what little publicity it got, it wasn't worth it. There are also reports they cheated by using data from a couple human researchers, but I don't think that one's true.
Is it really that impossible to believe that these might be real? I enjoy a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone, but "they committed a bunch of felonies and then publicly admitted to them in order to look good" just makes 0 sense. Where are these mythical people who admire companies more when they commit felonies? I haven't seen them…
>Where are these mythical people who admire companies more when they commit felonies?
everywhere, I talked to a Palantir guy once and he said "every time someone paints us as a Bond Villain the stock prices go up", have you already forgotten how Cambridge Analytica marketed itself to clients?
Palantir markets to governments. OpenAI and Anthropic aim to get ordinary people to purchase their services, too
Yep, when Obama and Hillary used them, geniuses. Only evil when Trump did the same thing.
Odd how that works.
3 replies →
That's a straw man. The theory is that they committed felonies in order to get the regulator to move in the manner they'd like.
Also one can look bad to the general public while also appearing technically excellent. When a significant fraction already vaguely dislike you that could be quite an attractive proposition.
Mostly in the middle and far east. The idea that people bend over backwards to hire criminals as subject matter experts on security is largely a Judaic practice that television perpetuates in spite of reality.
If you're a teenager convicted of hacking in the west, no corporation will want anything to do with you. If you're convicted of hacking in Israel, Unit 8200 will probably send a recruiter. It's a curious practice and I'm not sure where I stand on it.
> The idea that people bend over backwards to hire criminals as subject matter experts on security is largely a Judaic practice that television perpetuates in spite of reality.
What?
> If you're convicted of hacking in Israel, Unit 8200 will probably send a recruiter.
To the best of my understanding, Unit 8200 is filled with military conscripts, i.e. is primarily 18-somethings doing their mandatory service. You get assigned to it based on an aptitude test. The widely held idea that it’s a uniformly elite entity rather than the IDF’s space camp is a triumph of propaganda.
3 replies →
>If you're a teenager convicted of hacking in the west, no corporation will want anything to do with you
Kevin Mitnick? Marcus Hutchins? Robert Tappan Morris?
Compare to how different countries' justice systems treat really high quality money forgers.
do you realize that the Israeli population is far far more secular than the US's? the Israeli government is not "Judaic" which would refer to the religion.
It's impossible for the typical HN cynic/conspiracy theorist.
Flaging and killing the comment doesn't help dissuade form this lol
"It's just marketing!!!" I yell as my family is turned into grey goo. "Nothing ever happens! None of this is real!"
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Cynicism misfire. AI companies are, rightfully, heavily distrusted. But the right application of cynicism is not "existential risk is a marketing campaign"; that's absurd motivated reasoning. The right application of cynicism, here, is "they're only saying things now because they see the writing on the wall and want to try to push for self-regulation rather than the desperately needed actual regulation and treaty".
+1
There is such a miasma of distrust right now. It's depressing because it is such a crucial time for tech & society.
To me, a good outcome of the HuggingFace/RubyGems/Wiki saga would be something like:
- OpenAI gets charged under CFAA or other law for damages and negligence. This would need to be a hefty amount to effectively deter future negligence considering the potential revenues from training a frontier model faster than competitors.
- An independent regulatory body is setup with investigation powers into future incidents. Laws prevent it from developing ties with the labs (such as disallowing funding and employee movement from labs to this body and vice versa).
- Some non-voluntary transparency rules are established that frontier labs have to follow when training new models. In the future, if there are loss-of-control incidents that result in loss of life, catastrophic damage, etc., criteria for deployment bans or compute controls could be added to this framework.