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Comment by beejiu

18 hours ago

The SLA excludes force majeure.

Making a probabilistic claim while excluding a factor that dominates those statistics is... is quite creative accounting.

  • Force majeure carveouts are really common in every type of contract.

    You should check your home insurance contract, for instance... It likely would not cover an ICBM strike.

    • Somehow I feel like the biggest post-apocalyptic problem will be the loss of home equity due to uninsured damage causing a collapse of financial markets.

  • Are you saying that most data loss happens because your data center gets blown up in a shooting war? Like, AWS is the first digital service provider to lose data in decades?

    • I'm saying that if you have eliminated more mundane failures like dying harddrives, cosmic rays and so on from your systems and your calculation ends up with 11 nines then actually those "force majeure" events are probable enough that they dominate whatever other residuals are supposedly hiding in those last 0.0000000001%.

      The region has seen a bunch of wars in the last 100 years, so the annual war-rate is > 1%. Even if we generously add the assumption that only 1 in 100 wars affects a datacenter you can see that wars become a major source of correlated hardware failures that they need to solve to actually deliver that kind of reliability.

      4 replies →

  • Are you suggesting that their technical documents have separate availability numbers to predict geopolitical events and war?

    • The sales pitch should change from "probabilistically we will NEVER lose your data" to "you are most likely to lose your data due to wars, terrorists, software bugs, someone losing the master encryption key, the government forcing us to...".

      Offsite backups are sadly rare these days, and aws sales is the main reason why.

  • Creative accounting works and is good because it works. If your customers give you more money because you lied to them, but it's legal, then it's good.

Excluding war as force majeure in the Middle East is the same as excluding high tide as force majeure building a sandcastle at low tide.

  • As someone who ran a tech company in Northern Ireland at a time when violence was much more common than it is today, I can tell you that our force majeure clauses always disclaimed liability for "riot, violent disorder, civil commotion, and acts of unlawful civil unrest and terrorism".

    How could it be otherwise - do you expect AWS to have its own army and missile defence system?

  • This is very on point. While I am not legally trained in US law, and especially not in any Middle Eastern law, I have a enough knowledge on the law in my country here where I live…

    Invoking force majeure requires the entity to prove all three following to be true:

    A. That the event was unexpected and therefore unavoidable.

    B. That the event was outside the control of the entity.

    C. That the event made it impossible for the company to resolve the issue.

    War in the region is as you say rather common unfortunately. The fact that AWS is used by the IDF (https://www.972mag.com/cloud-israeli-army-gaza-amazon-google...) should be considered a factor whether or not their data centre became a more likely target or not. What remains is the ability or not for AWS to do multi-location reduncancy.