Comment by tsimionescu
1 month ago
As I said, I'm certain there are specific parts of Catholicism that do exhibit cult-like behaviors. That doesn't mean the Pope is a cult leader in the same way as Reverend Jones was.
1 month ago
As I said, I'm certain there are specific parts of Catholicism that do exhibit cult-like behaviors. That doesn't mean the Pope is a cult leader in the same way as Reverend Jones was.
This 'specific part of Catholicism' was the papal aligned Roman Catholic Church in Ireland. No unusual interpretations, no sects.
I feel like your comment here is a 'No True Catholic' style fallacy.
Are you claiming that for essentially anyone in, say, Dublin, announcing that they are now an atheist would lead to their family cutting all ties to them?
Or are you just saying that family members would generally declare their deep sadness at the news, and seek to convince them that this is a wrong belief and a mistake?
The first one is what leaving a cult is like (e.g. if you leave Scientology, most family and friends will be forced by the cult to cut ties, even if they personally wouldn't want to; even more extreme cults may physically prevent you from leaving the compound or even hurt you for the attempt). The second one is just the normal human experience of having opinions and a lifestyle that is not accepted by your family; the same happens to many people if choosing a career their family doesn't approve of, or leaves a job their family considers excellent, or dates someone the family doesn't like, and many other scenarios that have nothing to do with religion.
I feel I addressed this in my original post:
> don't have to involve threats or violence to be coercive control. Threatening to take away someone's community for a lack of belief is controlling.
This is also without getting into how many institutions in Ireland were (and many still are) faith based, requiring you to be a member of the church to, for example, attend school.
We can agree or disagree that being shunned from your community and denied opportunity because of a belief is controlling, but it's what led to my belief the Roman Catholic Church is a cult. Though to me a lot of it was simply not being allowed to leave.
He is, though. It's just that this particular cult has been around for so long that it's "traditional", kinda like tobacco and alcohol were not counted as "narcotics" in most jurisdictions.
No, he's not. Just look at the life of an average Catholic person and the life of an average Scientologist, or better yet, the life of an average Jonestown resident before the suicide, and see the obvious differences. Note also how little the life of an average Catholic differs from that of an average non-religious person in the same country.
I would be completely fine with saying that there do exist cults operating within the Catholic Church. Arguably, monasteries, especially the more isolated ones, are very much cults, with the cloistered lifestyle, complete dedication to the faith, strict authority, and requirement to cut previous ties to join, plus cutting ties if deciding to leave. I'd even agree that the priesthood constitutes somewhat of a cult, for similar reasons.
However, claiming that all of the hundreds of millions of lay Catholic believers are members of a cult is ludicrous.
Catholics literally believe that Pope is infallible when he speaks on matters of faith ex cathedra. If that's not a cult then what is?
Or how about Mormons? Are they a cult or not? If not, were they a cult at some point, and when exactly did they stop being one?
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