What I care about is banking app support. Both my credit unions (large, national ones) lock down their phones apps so they do not work on GrapheneOS. Yes, you can install certain Google packages to change that, but no guarantee that will work in the future.
- This is about preinstallation. For the planned models, you can install GrapheneOS yourself. This should be really simple, if it is similar to the current installation process for Pixels, which can be fully completed through their website.
- The preinstalled devices don't seem from Motorola themselves, as mentioned later in the thread: Probably not via their website but rather another company provided with the devices directly by Motorola. It could be us doing it ourselves but we aren't set up to deal with it.
Really excited for the Motorola GrapheneOS phones! (Currently have a P10P with GrapheneOS.)
I'd love to see the GrapheneOS team gaining enough resources to hire developers who can work to increase the number of supported devices. The more devices that are supported (even if security is not at the same level as Pixel/Motorola hardware), as the more popular GrapheneOS becomes, the harder it will be for governments to target it.
Preinstalled GrapheneOS would be funded by state Honeypot operators, or potentially thieves or blackmailers.
If you wish to steal from someone, select from a population of thieves since they won't go to the police (although they may use illegal means to punish you).
Going with the stereotype that people doing illegal things prefer a secure OS (and are not smart enough to pick a safe source).
The upcoming Signature 27 will be announced today at the Snapdragon Summit. It has been teased by Motorola on their socials and will likely release in the US because they've posted about it on US social accounts.
The 2026 Signature, in the UK, is $1460 USD. In Brazil it is selling for $1230. The Pixel 11 pro XL, which the Signature beats on hardware in practically every way sells for $1300 on Google's website.
It looks interesting... I didn't love the 2026 design [1] but it looks better than whatever this is. Here's pictures:
Flagship phones are so damn expensive for what you are getting. I just buy whatever is the current iphone SE which is usually around $300 for the top storage sku when I show up to buy it a couple years after release. At my current burn rate $1300 would be like 20 years spend on phones for me.
What stopped me from buying flagship phones is the repair costs for phones are far too expensive in relationship to the value of the phone. Results will vary, but waterproofing usually diminishes after a repair.
My current phone is definitely flagship for the time, ~$850, and I will be holding onto it as long as I can because flagships, with headphone jacks, available in the US, are something that just does not exist anymore, and I'm not spending $1500+ to import the cheapest Xperia only to have it barely work on my cell network.
That's also what I buy with Apple now. When I was using Android I'd buy a cheap "Moto G" for maybe $150 brand new. Never understood dropping a grand or more on a mobile phone.
Sadly there are no more iPhone SE models so this strategy won't work forever. Eventually iOS 18 will stop getting security updates and you'll have to use the increasingly worse newer versions of iOS.
And here I am with my 26 Signature, still on Android 16 with Patch Level from January and the phone reporting happily, Looking Good! Everything up to date!
the thought of having a phone, which i touch all day, set on many surfaces, put in my pockets etc having a fabric enclosure is so gross to me. did they just forget that people use their phones on the toilet? or while they eat messy food? that gold/tan model is bound to look like a busy parent of 4's minivan interior within a month.
Devices are sold with GrapheneOS preinstalled, just not by GrapheneOS. If your paranoia needs aren't high but you just want to get away from Google, it seems like a good idea.
You can also factory reset, check boot key hash, and use Auditor to verify integrity on devices sold with GrapheneOS preinstalled. That's what they currently recommend to do for Pixels sold with GrapheneOS preinstalled.
>Probably not via their website but rather another company provided with the devices directly by Motorola. It could be us doing it ourselves but we aren't set up to deal with it.
I presume this bit is because Motorola can't sell devices with android builds that aren't certified by google (as per Google Mobile Services contracts)
Pretty much, but you would be surprised at just how low some of these phone RAM setups can go.
I had a low end Oppo 'something', I remember the RAM had a 16bit data bus, the whole thing had a peak theoretical bandwidth at just over 4GB/sec. That phone sauntered through the workload at the best of times. The Mediatek chip was probably not the weaklink for once.
On the upside the battery could go well over a week between charges.
The official GrapheneOS docs contains a developer guide on how to fix banking apps when they are not working. Bank app developers have been surprisingly receptive to making the changes, weirdly enough. You can see in some of the issues tracked on the site where people reached out and the developers eventually made the apps work.
I've been running GrapheneOS for a while (I have posts on the blog in my bio if you want to see some day-to-day info) and only one bank app gave me trouble. I had to toggle a setting and then everything worked.
Separate from this is wallet and payment apps which still have not had much traction on GrapheneOS.
I was also surprised by the banking app experience. After making me verify my identity about 10 times to prove I'm me and not a hacker, they finally let me use it...
I've heard some people had good results by going to their bank branch and demanding them to unblock their phone or they'll close their account. Apparently they have a checkbox to disable phone attestation requirements for a customer.
GrapheneOS has convinced apps to add compatibility. Hell, Roblox has official GrapheneOS support. The idea is to get more users in order to convince the very few apps that block GrapheneOS, to support it.
My banks (in Europe) work fine. The primary thing that is missing is tap-to-pay because Google is abusing its monopoly position and not letting GrapheneOS pass remote attestation. There are some apps that have their own tap-to-pay, such as Curve in most of Europe and PayPal in Germany, but they don't work great everywhere (e.g. where I live, all payment terminals accept tap-to-pay based on debit cards, but more than 50% does not accept credit card-based tap-to-pay, so something like Curve or Garmin Pay doesn't work in many stores).
FWIW the financial institutions I use (all major US brokerages) have no issues with Google attestation, and if they implemented it I'd just move all my assets out to a different one.
I don't regularly use an actual bank account anymore, the cash management solutions from these brokerages work great and can do everything including direct deposit, payments, wire transfers, and ATM/debit cards, and have SIPC protection in place of FDIC.
Unfortunately the privacy/security features GrapheneOS requires as well as just the ability to replace the OS are only put on premium phones. You can buy an a series Pixel a few years behind to get it in the price point you want. But this won't save money long term because the price per year of support is worse than newer models like the 10a or 9a.
Although if you just want a degoogled phone with some features and don't want to hide a criminal enterprise, I doubt an out-of-support Graphene phone is any worse than an out-of-support Huawei or Xiaomi or Realme or Motorola phone.
Even if they do sell graphene(android) devices there is still a good chance that it wont be enough to keep a full function linux phone off the market.
I would sooner buy a trump phone then graphene, it's not as pretentious and it's more shiny.
What I care about is banking app support. Both my credit unions (large, national ones) lock down their phones apps so they do not work on GrapheneOS. Yes, you can install certain Google packages to change that, but no guarantee that will work in the future.
Two clarifications:
- This is about preinstallation. For the planned models, you can install GrapheneOS yourself. This should be really simple, if it is similar to the current installation process for Pixels, which can be fully completed through their website.
- The preinstalled devices don't seem from Motorola themselves, as mentioned later in the thread: Probably not via their website but rather another company provided with the devices directly by Motorola. It could be us doing it ourselves but we aren't set up to deal with it.
Really excited for the Motorola GrapheneOS phones! (Currently have a P10P with GrapheneOS.)
I'd love to see the GrapheneOS team gaining enough resources to hire developers who can work to increase the number of supported devices. The more devices that are supported (even if security is not at the same level as Pixel/Motorola hardware), as the more popular GrapheneOS becomes, the harder it will be for governments to target it.
I am not too sure about this. There is no company I trust to sell GrapheneOS-preinstalled phones other than GrapheneOS themselves.
We are going to be reinstalling GrapheneOS on the phones shipping with it.
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Preinstalled GrapheneOS would be funded by state Honeypot operators, or potentially thieves or blackmailers.
If you wish to steal from someone, select from a population of thieves since they won't go to the police (although they may use illegal means to punish you).
Going with the stereotype that people doing illegal things prefer a secure OS (and are not smart enough to pick a safe source).
You can verify the installation integrity via android attestation, which grapheneos uses
The upcoming Signature 27 will be announced today at the Snapdragon Summit. It has been teased by Motorola on their socials and will likely release in the US because they've posted about it on US social accounts.
The 2026 Signature, in the UK, is $1460 USD. In Brazil it is selling for $1230. The Pixel 11 pro XL, which the Signature beats on hardware in practically every way sells for $1300 on Google's website.
It looks interesting... I didn't love the 2026 design [1] but it looks better than whatever this is. Here's pictures:
https://xxcancel.com/moto
https://x.com/moto
[1] https://www.motorola.com/gb/en/p/phones/motorola-signature/s...
Flagship phones are so damn expensive for what you are getting. I just buy whatever is the current iphone SE which is usually around $300 for the top storage sku when I show up to buy it a couple years after release. At my current burn rate $1300 would be like 20 years spend on phones for me.
What stopped me from buying flagship phones is the repair costs for phones are far too expensive in relationship to the value of the phone. Results will vary, but waterproofing usually diminishes after a repair.
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My current phone is definitely flagship for the time, ~$850, and I will be holding onto it as long as I can because flagships, with headphone jacks, available in the US, are something that just does not exist anymore, and I'm not spending $1500+ to import the cheapest Xperia only to have it barely work on my cell network.
That's also what I buy with Apple now. When I was using Android I'd buy a cheap "Moto G" for maybe $150 brand new. Never understood dropping a grand or more on a mobile phone.
16 replies →
Sadly there are no more iPhone SE models so this strategy won't work forever. Eventually iOS 18 will stop getting security updates and you'll have to use the increasingly worse newer versions of iOS.
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Current street prices in Austria:
~750€ for the Motorola Signature, with 512 GB storage
~900€ for the Pixel 10 Pro XL, with 256 GB storage (the 11 Pro XL costs much more at ~1200€, since it just came out a month ago)
Probably the price for Moto signature is that low only because they're right about to launch the next version.
That’s not saying much. The selling point of pixels has always been the software.
The selling point of graphene is basically that you get the pixel software experience.
It just puts Google in the same sandbox Google puts everyone else.
Typing this on a pixel running graphene.
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And here I am with my 26 Signature, still on Android 16 with Patch Level from January and the phone reporting happily, Looking Good! Everything up to date!
Get your update process working @Motorola!
the thought of having a phone, which i touch all day, set on many surfaces, put in my pockets etc having a fabric enclosure is so gross to me. did they just forget that people use their phones on the toilet? or while they eat messy food? that gold/tan model is bound to look like a busy parent of 4's minivan interior within a month.
Devices are sold with GrapheneOS preinstalled, just not by GrapheneOS. If your paranoia needs aren't high but you just want to get away from Google, it seems like a good idea.
You can also factory reset, check boot key hash, and use Auditor to verify integrity on devices sold with GrapheneOS preinstalled. That's what they currently recommend to do for Pixels sold with GrapheneOS preinstalled.
Would corporate BYOD and bank apps work, though?
>Probably not via their website but rather another company provided with the devices directly by Motorola. It could be us doing it ourselves but we aren't set up to deal with it.
I presume this bit is because Motorola can't sell devices with android builds that aren't certified by google (as per Google Mobile Services contracts)
To whom it may concern, I want $100 grapheneos phone.
The DDR ram costs more than the phone now. Wish I was joking. =3
Pretty much, but you would be surprised at just how low some of these phone RAM setups can go.
I had a low end Oppo 'something', I remember the RAM had a 16bit data bus, the whole thing had a peak theoretical bandwidth at just over 4GB/sec. That phone sauntered through the workload at the best of times. The Mediatek chip was probably not the weaklink for once.
On the upside the battery could go well over a week between charges.
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Might someone know whether banking apps worldwide will work?
This site tracks the status of what apps work: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
The official GrapheneOS docs contains a developer guide on how to fix banking apps when they are not working. Bank app developers have been surprisingly receptive to making the changes, weirdly enough. You can see in some of the issues tracked on the site where people reached out and the developers eventually made the apps work.
I've been running GrapheneOS for a while (I have posts on the blog in my bio if you want to see some day-to-day info) and only one bank app gave me trouble. I had to toggle a setting and then everything worked.
Separate from this is wallet and payment apps which still have not had much traction on GrapheneOS.
I was also surprised by the banking app experience. After making me verify my identity about 10 times to prove I'm me and not a hacker, they finally let me use it...
I've heard some people had good results by going to their bank branch and demanding them to unblock their phone or they'll close their account. Apparently they have a checkbox to disable phone attestation requirements for a customer.
Heh. USA user here. Several of the apps that say they work I have been unable to get to work.
So anyone reading this, be aware your experience may differ.
I'm on a pixel 10 pro and have never been able to get some of banking apps to work, despite the list saying they should.
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> Separate from this is wallet and payment apps which still have not had much traction on GrapheneOS.
Curve works in Europe and Paypal has a trial thing in Germany for tap to pay IIRC. There's nothing in the US unfortunately, yet.
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You can check your specific app here: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
GrapheneOS has convinced apps to add compatibility. Hell, Roblox has official GrapheneOS support. The idea is to get more users in order to convince the very few apps that block GrapheneOS, to support it.
I imagine that banking apps will begin to have better support for GrapheneOS as it rises in popularity.
Probably not, because of Google attestation, the cancer of Android.
My banks (in Europe) work fine. The primary thing that is missing is tap-to-pay because Google is abusing its monopoly position and not letting GrapheneOS pass remote attestation. There are some apps that have their own tap-to-pay, such as Curve in most of Europe and PayPal in Germany, but they don't work great everywhere (e.g. where I live, all payment terminals accept tap-to-pay based on debit cards, but more than 50% does not accept credit card-based tap-to-pay, so something like Curve or Garmin Pay doesn't work in many stores).
At any rate, there is a well-maintained list here: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
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FWIW the financial institutions I use (all major US brokerages) have no issues with Google attestation, and if they implemented it I'd just move all my assets out to a different one.
I don't regularly use an actual bank account anymore, the cash management solutions from these brokerages work great and can do everything including direct deposit, payments, wire transfers, and ATM/debit cards, and have SIPC protection in place of FDIC.
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Everything in Sweden I've tried works.
Amongst the several banks I deal with, only one uses Google's attestation framework in a way that blocks GrapheneOS.
That said, the website still works fine for that one.
I wish they will bring a €200 device with GrapheneOS out
Unfortunately the privacy/security features GrapheneOS requires as well as just the ability to replace the OS are only put on premium phones. You can buy an a series Pixel a few years behind to get it in the price point you want. But this won't save money long term because the price per year of support is worse than newer models like the 10a or 9a.
So, 7a at your pricepoint:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/820099695470
But, it's only supported for 1.6 more years.
So that puts it at $143 per year of support. While the 10a [1] will be supported for 6.4 more years, which puts it at $55 per year of support.
[1] https://www.ebay.com/itm/137767347717
Although if you just want a degoogled phone with some features and don't want to hide a criminal enterprise, I doubt an out-of-support Graphene phone is any worse than an out-of-support Huawei or Xiaomi or Realme or Motorola phone.
Good. Though i hope i'll see GOS for the P11A (expecting it will come out) so i can upgrade my 8A.
i really like the pixels, and haven't been fond of motorolas in recent years
The Pixel 11s have been a decent downgrade from the 10s. You might want to consider getting a 10 or 10a while they're still cheap.
Are there any GrapheneOS-capable devices that still have an SD card slot and a 3.5mm port? Bonus points if the battery is removable.
I will also accept "Sending my consciousness back to my 2016 body." Better yet, 1996. Got some things I wanna fix.
Will they be unlockable?
Yes. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47241551
Have they confirmed whether Motorola will change their onerous unlocking process to be more like the Google Pixels?
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Will the pre-installed GrapheneOS phones still show up as "rooted" to things like Microsoft Authenticator?
Depends how they implement their check, but if they do it correctly it would show the bootloader as locked and detect no su binary (no root).
If they use Google SafetyNet to basically block everything non-Google-certified™ then no.
nice
now give me a device with a mechanical switch that gaps the radio power physically
I'm only buying it if it comes with a secure raccoon feeder.
pinephone has this but it never really became a thing
Librem too
Even if they do sell graphene(android) devices there is still a good chance that it wont be enough to keep a full function linux phone off the market. I would sooner buy a trump phone then graphene, it's not as pretentious and it's more shiny.
> buy a trump phone then graphene
Did you mean "than"?
I love Linux (been using it as my daily desktop for decades), but we're a long ways off from a true Linux phone.
Will you put a Linux phone on the market?