Comment by expedition32
18 hours ago
There's a lot of schadenfreude in the Netherlands about German car manufacturers but then we all know what happened the last time German industry went kaput... So I suppose we all have to support our brothers and sisters from the East until they get their act together.
Please don't. The arrogance with which they handle this situation is mind-boggling. Everyone else is blamed except their own greed and awful decision making. Germany and Europe will recover from this eventually and we're going to be better off without the auto lobby.
There was no arrogance.
Incompetence maybe, but no arrogance.
European governments and companies are like ships that change captains, while the direction of the ships is hard to change due to inertia.
Politically, I'm happy for this, on a business level, not really.
> Germany and Europe will recover from this eventually
One could characterize WWII that way, but maybe it still would have been better prevented.
VW doesn't sell new ICE models in the sub 25k€ segment anymore. Their new entry level car ID. Polo is an EV and when decked out (slight hyperbole, I primarily mean the battery upgrade) is costing the same the hypothetical $35k base Model 3 that never really existed in the first place, maybe it does today. Not to mention the 25k€ base model is not only real, but it is even acceptable if you don't care about range. Might still want to have some addons though.
> VW doesn't sell new ICE models in the sub 25k€ segment anymore.
Knowing VW, I read that as: "VW doesn't sell cars in the sub 25k€ segment anymore."
The ID.1 (replacement for the e-Up) will be released next year at €20k.
Ehhh we should support them otherwise they will come to kill us all again?
No, if they do that it's 100% on them.
And the German auto industry is really corrupt. See what they did at Volkswagen scamming the system and then refusing to own up to it.
I don't buy any cars anymore and if I did it wouldn't be German.
Personally I think it's time for the personal car to disappear anyway. Even an EV still pollutes a lot, it's not just about CO2.
> Personally I think it's time for the personal car to disappear anyway.
Yeah I dunno. I think the majority of people will fight to the death if one tries to take away the individual mobility (and replaces it with either nothing or corporate-owned assets).
So yeah maybe that prediction in the first sentence is actually accurate, depending on how strongly that opinion is held and pushed.
In America maybe. Here in Europe it's not really viewed as a birthright like that. And don't forget, America artificially created a dependency on the car with its city design, for economic reasons.
And no I don't think anything corporate-owned is the answer, as corporations are the main reason we're in this mess.
But like I said it is my personal opinion. The challenges we face as humanity, like pollution (not just global warming), and infinite growth can't be solved without some big changes. Quick fixes just won't do it which is why we're not actually solving anything.
I don't think it will happen though. There's too many vested interest in just burning the world until it's gone.
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While I agree, I think it's a short sighted view.
My parents have just entered the era in their lives where they can no longer drive. Because where they live has 0 public transport, it means they have to rely on family for transport (which thankfully I have siblings living nearby).
Their individual mobility disappeared almost overnight (stroke, and my mom had a botched cataract surgery). Everyone is just one major health event away from losing that mobility.
Public transit, beyond just being better for the environment, is a public good and I can't overstate how amazing it is to live with good public transport. I lived in England for 2 years without a car and I didn't miss it for a day. I could get buses and trains anywhere I wanted to go and the layout of cities there are such that you usually just want to go to the town center and back any ways.
Yeah, VW's tricks with diesel emissions testing just blew me away.
But nowadays, as I read more about LG's TV shenanigans ("We own the glass."), VW's behavior doesn't seem quite so horrendously criminal. Even though it was.
> See what they did at Volkswagen scamming the system and then refusing to own up to it.
If you mean Dieselgate, then agreed, horrible. It is worth noting that after the scandal we found out that a whole bunch of (non-german like Suzuki and Hyundai) manufacturers were actually worse (NOx) with emissions well beyond legal limits. It just didn't make the headlines nearly as much.
So while we can absolutely criticize VW, I don't think it's fair to generalize this as a german issue.
Personal cars can't disappear if we keep restricting ebikes and scooters or making it hard to legally use them for cargo. Individual mobility is important.
If you let state run public transit or corporate owned rentals and taxis dictate where you can go, that's giving up all your freedom. And everybody understand that. It's why there's so much pushback against things like the EU mandating sleep detection cameras.
Personally I won't, the amount of greed and contempt for customers in the EU automotive world is absolutely insane, they need all to feel the pain, at least a bit to remember that their place isn't a given, that they have to work for customers.
A good chunk of them don't even follow EU laws on warranty.