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Comment by hardbass

7 hours ago

So is that what it is? Words are another muddle btw unless you make it clear you only mean natural language and not any alphabet in general. Turing computers are also languages and as far as we know, can express anything in the universe. If you think you get some superpowers from drugs that enable you to access something outside your sense organs and brains input, that non drug users don't, show it. Eg if you think you can read what is happening in another room without any signal or leakage from there, you are free to demonstrate it. As far as we know drugs are not magic.

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hardbass

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wartywhoa23  5 hours ago

> show it

I explicitly tell you that there are things (in fact, it's a single thing, fractally generating everything else) that can't be shown, expressed, or otherwise be reduced into language, and you keep demanding to show it, while in fact staring at it your whole life and failing to see.

Psychedelics (not "drugs" as you keep trying to smear them) are just one way among the many to see it, but in the modern way of living, also almost the only one available.

  • hardbass  5 hours ago

    I am not smearing drugs. Your difficulty is proving somehow this beyond language thing exists. A drug affects your brain, lsd inhibits certain negative feedbacks in the brain, positive feedback tends to cause chaos which usually manifests as fractals. As of yet our brains are known to not follow any special laws beyond known physics, which is turing computable. If you think there is something "beyond" you have to prove it to an external observer.

    • LoganDark  5 hours ago

      Never seen this description of LSD inhibiting negative feedback in the brain. I've mostly seen reports that it increases connectivity in the white matter region, which has the inherent property of giving more paths for loops to form. Have any resources about it?

      Anyway, I think what they're saying is that if you train a model purely on generating language, it'll lack many of the things about human brains (and the human experience) that result in the language they generate. The process can matter more than the result for language (specifically for creativity and art, too), so it follows that a model trained purely on the output is going to be missing something more fundamental, even when it does produce coherent language. This matches up with my LLM experience so far. That's not to say anything about their value or utility, just that they're not the same.

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  • hardbass  4 hours ago

    You didn't clarify whether you meant language as in natural language or any Turing language.

  • LoganDark  5 hours ago

    Psychedelics by definition are drugs and drugs are not a smear, they're a specifier. I do still have issue with them implying you need some sort of extra-sensory perception to make insights that look to follow just fine to me, but maybe I am just already enlightened or some shit from taking LSD all those times before.

LoganDark  5 hours ago

We do know that LSD affects brain connectivity/activity in a way that you absolutely can make new insights. It's not magic, but sometimes you just need the right kind of push to realize certain things. One of the reasons there's research into psilocybin therapy nowadays.