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Comment by abc123abc123

11 hours ago

All countries are above the law. When was the last time you saw a country in jail or meaningfully punished? The only one who can punish a country is another country if they are powerful and violent enough.

Who should be responsible for enforcing the Geneva Conventions and other international humanitarian law? Or are we finally admitting that the only "international law" we officially recognize is Might Makes Right?

  • Nobody is. Russia is repeatedly violating them despite being signers of the treaty, and nobody does anything.

    I don't like it, but I'm not signing up to do anything about it, and I'm not going to sign my kids up for it either.

    • Usually that happens after the conflict. Like Yugoslavia or the Neurenberg trials.

      I'm not holding my breath for Russia to be prosecuted, for starters because they're one of the countries that don't recognize it

  • All signatories to the Geneva Conventions are responsible for enforcing it. The USA never ratified the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and thus has no responsibility to enforce it.

  • > Or are we finally admitting that the only "international law" we officially recognize is Might Makes Right?

    People like Trump and Hegseth have been saying that very explicitly in at least the past couple years

  • It has always been might makes right, are you under the impression it wasn’t that way at some point? I’m not endorsing the actions of the current administration, simply stating how global geopolitics works. There’s no such thing as a supranational organization that can force a nuclear power to do anything of consequence.

    The only people that get prosecuted by the ICC are people that lose wars (no winner has ever been prosecuted) and are also from nations that do not have nuclear weapons / nuclear protection.

  • I mean... just about every 'enforcement' of international norms has been by american hard and soft power. Might has always made right, it's just that the guy with the biggest gun happened to have western liberal values.

    Seems like that changed a little in the last decade. Hopefully it's not forever, but who knows.

  • "Finally admitting"

    Google League of Nations

    We're repeating old social tropes the 50+ year old leadership lived through.

    It's sad and pathetic. The youth reliance on old leadership and putting that on them is elder abuse. McConnell and Feinstein handlers should be prosecuted for such.

    This is 100% on lazy, low-skilled, younger American public that doesn't need Depends expecting better from the generation glazing over live on TV and vanishing from office only to be found months later in an institution

    The censored for TV era propped such olds up on screen for decades and refused to challenge their speculations and bullshit; everyone actually believes the elders are cogent and capable but they never were. Just puppets of a bygone era of televised circuses beamed to the Wonder Bread eating masses

It's one thing to say: "We will not recognize or abide by ICC verdicts".

It's another thing to say: "We will dismantle it if it goes after Americans".

It's also extremely hypocritical since Rubio himself co-sponsored a resolution backing the court's jurisdiction over Russians accused of war crimes.

So it's really more like: "If it says things we agree with, we will be on board. If it says things we disagree with, not only will we not be on board, we will erase the whole thing".

Which is why the ICC was established by several countries as part of an international agreement. It's literally other countries collaborating to punish bad actor countries.

  • > Which is why the ICC was established by several countries as part of an international agreement. It's literally other countries collaborating to punish bad actor countries.

    What would you think of an agreement by ten guys that they'll work together to beat you up if they decide you're a "bad actor"? Is it somehow solemn and respectable merely because they came to an agreement? Even if you don't agree their self-declaration should give them power over you?

    I think the way you've presented things is misleading. International relations is literally anarchy, and different groups have different points of view. Mere collaboration is only that.

    • > What would you think of an agreement by ten guys that they'll work together to beat you up if they decide you're a "bad actor"?

      FWIW, that's not how the ICC works, any more than your national legal system is "ten guys working together to beat you up if they don't like you."

      3 replies →

    • > What would you think of an agreement by ten guys that they'll work together to beat you up if they decide you're a "bad actor"?

      The ICC is 125 guys agreeing with each other that if one of them does bad things the others will hold them accountable.

      It's not random people asking strangers to follow their rules.

      4 replies →

  • Bad actor _people_. The court tries people.

    USA sovereignty is not at issue, it's who now holds it as your democracy has failed, and will a future sovereign demos choose to apply this moral law to those within it's sovereign estate.

  • But it's largely the court of center-left European thinking. It's a political tool without teeth, and since none of US, China, Russia are signatories, it can only prosecute people without a great power sponsor.

A country is an abstract idea at the end of the day. How can you put Uganda in a physical jail? Or how can one country "punish" another?

If you're talking about invading and occupying the people, every person is still theoretically under the law of whatever country they are in by default.