Comment by Brendinooo
25 days ago
I'm a little surprised at the price (especially when their newly-announced HomeView is the same price, and it has a screen!).
I love this product: it's the one box I can (reasonably) trust to not be mining my viewing habits for data. I have two older ones and was looking to get something that supported 4K but waited for this to come out.
$300 might be a decent price if you use it for all of the things that it can do, but if all you're doing is launching streaming apps, $200 was already on the high end for that. $300 seems...a bit much.
Anything I'm missing here? The silver lining is that this product is almost certainly still in the "pay money then forget about it for a decade" tier, which is nice.
I'm also wondering if/how the "add up to four homepods" feature compares to "getting a soundbar". In the other thread for this someone noted that the HomePods only work with this box; so if you're running a game console that's no bueno. But apart from that, if $600 on an Apple TV + two HomePods mini delivers something comparable to a ~$500 soundbar, that's a decent value proposition.
> mining my viewing habits
apple tv isn't private, apple does mine your viewing habits, read their eula.
You should also know that all non-apple apps like netflix have unrestricted network access and can/will do the same.
It is too bad that people accept apple's marketing about privacy, because they have dark patterns, they collect telemetry, they don't let you block it, and they help apps do the same things.
A privacy policy is not the same as being able to firewall your device, but apple doesn't allow firewalls.
Just FYI on MacOS's default telemetry:
1) By default, every word (each character, actually) you input into Spotlight/Siri gets time-stamped and sent to `smoot.apple.com`
2) Even with a Pi-Hole blocking *.apple.com (i.e. using MacOS >> Networking >> DNS Server), on boot all modern Apple Silicon reaches out to security.apple.com (i.e. bypassing the user's manual-input DNS setting), using the DHCP-issued DNS IP [0]
pro-tip: use your router's DHCP to auto-issue your local Pi-Hole's IP address [as DNS] with your IP-leases; then you'll actually be able to block all *.apple.com traffic (using the PiHole which your DHCP issues to, by default)
[0] this is for security chip "lockout" detection (e.g.) and it is pervasive across NICs (i.e. it REALLY seeks any attempt for DNS resolution to security.apple.com)
> 1) By default, every word (each character, actually) you input into Spotlight/Siri gets time-stamped and sent to `smoot.apple.com`
Huh? How do you expect Apple to show live search results if they don't send what you're typing to their servers?
> 2) Even with a Pi-Hole blocking *.apple.com (i.e. using MacOS >> Networking >> DNS Server), on boot all modern Apple Silicon reaches out to security.apple.com (i.e. bypassing the user's manual-input DNS setting), using the DHCP-issued DNS IP [0]
From a quick google search, it seems to be if you enable "Find my" or pass word recovery with an Apple account. I think that's reasonable to expect if you enable these features.
18 replies →
>...pro-tip...
Thank you for the detailed suggestion. I use LittleSnitch. pi-hole previously, I must take another look. Did you catch LG spying posts?
1 reply →
This is ugly. Time for some more lawsuits probably.
2 replies →
I'm comfortable with the idea that Netflix can collect data about what I watch on Netflix, and that Apple can track what I buy in the Apple app.
I'm not comfortable with my TV or streaming stick manufacturer collecting and mining data about everything that appears on the screen.
I haven't checked in a while, but the netflix app might contact third party domains.
I think other streaming apps definitely do.
Apple does too. I don't know about the TV, but a vanilla safari has a bunch of default favorites, and when you open a browser window it contacts each one of them and sets cookies. It also contacts google by default for searching, character by character quick search completion and on and on.
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy products without all this nonsense?
4 replies →
Your viewing habits are not mined by Apple TV the same way that a smart TV does it.
If you use the Apple TV app and if you give permission to the app in the modal to link your HBO Max/Paramount+/etc. app, then that app can call a special API to donate your viewing history to the Apple TV app. You can just decline the prompt, or you can just not use the Apple TV app, and then the other streaming services have no recipient to give this data to.
Conversely, your TV runs something called ACR or Automatic Content Recognition where a screenshot of your TV input/app is taken every ~x seconds. At best, it distills it into a local signature and ships that off to some amount of servers. At worst (e.g.: laptop HDMI) it can send it for processing. Some TVs take screenshots much more often if you use a device connected by HDMI.[1]
The former is generally used for content recommendation, but we can also assume that it could potentially get pooled into stuff like App Store ads. The latter is also used to discern your political affiliation and target you for political campaign ads, among every other type of ad.
1: https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/research/smart-tv-data-priva...
Privacy advocates recommend Apple TV for a reason.
> Breaking down why Apple TVs are privacy advocates’ go-to streaming device
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/all-the-ways-apple-t...
It looks like the only thing Apple isn't doing is ACR. They still say that they track what you watch and sell that to 3rd parties though. Now that Apple is in the targeted ad business and even filling iOS with ads I suspect it's all downhill from here.
6 replies →
Apple (mostly) isn’t in the business of selling ads. I’d certainly trust this over most other options.
Actually, they sell lots of ads in the app store. I will not be surprised if they sell video ads, display ads or search ads in the future. They could earn tens of billions in revenue per year; the main business question is how that trades off against the various downsides of advertising sales.
5 replies →
> Apple (mostly) isn’t in the business of selling ads. I’d certainly trust this over most other options.
Do you not use the same Apple App Store, Apple Maps, and Apple Podcast apps I use? The ads are becoming a real problem.
Watch out - I think apple revenue for services is increasing, now almost 30% and gross margins on services is ~75%
I think ads are projected to be $9b this year
Their services revenue has been skyrocketing. Ads are the reason.
I would say Apple is on the Pareto frontier for a given level of config/setup effort though.
There absolutely are much more private options (I run one) but it’s more effort.
> it's the one box I can (reasonably) trust to not be mining my viewing habits for data.
It's mind-blowing how one of the most advanced technology forums on the internet can take privacy for granted just because the marketing of a for-profit corporation with previous histories of privacy violations (there's even lawsuits) claims their closed source device connected 24/7 to the internet, is private.
>It's mind-blowing how one of the most advanced technology forums on the internet can take privacy for granted
that's not what I did
> just because the marketing
not just because of the marketing
> of a for-profit corporation with previous histories of privacy violations (there's even lawsuits) claims their closed source device connected 24/7 to the internet, is private.
in other words, they are being watched and held accountable when they do screw up, which obviates a lot of the "well maybe they're stealing your data and we don't know about it" nonsense elsewhere in the replies.
I'll ask something specific: We know that Rokus and built-in smart TVs are actively tracking and monetizing everything you do on your television. People can prove this by looking at what calls are made on your network.
Does Apple do the same thing?
Apple literally does do the same thing. Especially (!) with Apple TV. Go read the eula's again. Apple TV, Apple Maps & Apple News all perform data mining largely akin to how their competitors do it. There are specific carve outs for those three services.
27 replies →
One of the products you mentioned is named Home View. It's right there. Both new SKUs ship with their voice assistant interface to Google Gemini (and friends) in an environment where memory and storage availability is being monopolized by cloud infrastructure.
> I can (reasonably) trust to not be mining my viewing habits for data
That's precisely what you did.
The distortion field is powerful.
Keep the firewall of skepticism high.
14 replies →
> Does Apple do the same thing?
Yes, they did:
https://www.reuters.com/legal/apple-pay-95-million-settle-si...
Can you prove they aren't actively doing it now?
edit: link
8 replies →
Of all the major tech companies around the world, Apple has the most incentive to actually deliver privacy, and has the best track record.
The Snowden PRISM revelations showed that all the major tech companies work with the US government and its spy agencies. Can't trust anyone.
6 replies →
> Of all the major tech companies around the world, Apple has the most incentive to actually deliver privacy, and has the best track record.
Honestly, based on what? That they haven't been caught?
36 replies →
My question is what do you connect this TO that doesn't spy. I get you can use a Smart TV and switch to HDMI input but there's no guarantee the TV is not spying on you in some way, if not today then tomorrow these things will come with eSIM support to upload ACR data even when 'disconnected' or connect to your smartphone over some ad tech protocol to do the same.
3 replies →
If you want privacy (or anything for that matter), the only way you're going to get it is by user choice. A device that doesn't let you install your own apps is not going to deliver what you want.
1 reply →
I don’t trust them for privacy. I like them for the lack of annoyance. All their competitors seems to want to hinder any activity I want to do. Ads, nagging, notifications, … It’s basically a mental tax.
Apple has their own ad targeting program, and they only need to seem to deliver privacy.
> and has the best track record.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/apple-pay-95-million-settle-si...
Yeah, great track record there.
5 replies →
> and has the best track record
Or maybe they are just not caught yet. They are now running ads, where is the data coming for that. They stop others from using the APIs but nothing stop their first party apps to snoop and use the data.
Apple AirTag is the biggest privacy nightmare out there and I am not sure why people keep Apple separate from other data hungry companies
> It's mind-blowing how one of the most advanced technology forums on the internet can take privacy for granted just because the marketing of a for-profit corporation...
This is a common judgement among the technically literate.
> Breaking down why Apple TVs are privacy advocates’ go-to streaming device
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/all-the-ways-apple-t...
On the contrary. This is a place where we don’t have to substitute FUD for facts and analysis.
To me, it doesn’t make sense to rate all levels of imperfection the same. Of course Apple isn’t perfect. But that’s not am important question.
Apple’s the only major purveyor of these kinds of devices whose existential business model is not predicated on privacy violations. Hardly a guarantee of good behavior (and we’ll see what happens in the future). But a lot better than the alternatives.
What's the relevance of it being for-profit? You're assuming that non-profits necessarily have less of a hunger for data?
Fair enough.
Why would you assume that because they disagree with you, they must be ignorant?
Isn't Apple building an ad network? Its only a matter of time.
I've literally been waiting since 2022 for this.
I purchased the 2021 ATV just before the 2022 was released. It struggles with AV1 and VP9 (Infuse really struggles, VLC is better but still a problem). I just wanted the faster CPU (for software decoding AV1 and VP9). Almost bought the 2022 version in 2024 for that but didn't want to buy a 2 year old product.
Didn't expect to have to wait 4 years, and now the price is more than doubled. I can afford it but refuse to do so, especially since I don't use any of the onboard storage for anything.
I'm still using the Dev Kit version that was shipped out before the 3rd Gen launched. tvOS26 was the last version supported so I'll be updating finally. I'd consider 14 years a pretty decent run.
Didn't that one come out in 2015?
Me too! Best $1 I've ever spent
2 replies →
The new CPU (A19) should have hardware decoding for both AV1 and VP9. Apple doesn't advertise the latter, but Safari supports VP9 on the A17 Pro and newer. You shouldn't have to rely on software decoding with the new Apple TV, though it might depend on your apps supporting it.
> The new CPU (A19) should have hardware decoding for both AV1 and VP9. Apple doesn't advertise the latter…
VP9 support is just as promiment as AV1 support in the specs. https://www.apple.com/apple-tv-4k/specs/
I think we’re wanting the same thing/ use here. I agree the price is outrageous but I ended up preordering anyway because at the end it’s still a good deal if you do the math. I’m excited for the AV1 (hardware now) and more horsepower for VP9 (software).
I'm in the same boat. I guess I'll buy the older one -- can't justify the $300.
you're downloading youtube videos to watch in vlc?
Yes. YouTube still thinks my partner and my accounts are in different countries so we couldn’t get Premium Family (for the past 4 years) and I’m not about to purchase separate subscriptions. So I have a backend that I can send YouTube URLs to running on my Mac Mini that gets the videos with yt-dlp.
5 replies →
I bought one earlier this year right before they announced the $70 price increase. Going from $130 to $200 to $300 in the same year is crazy.
At $130 it was an impulse buy and well worth it. Given a new price and features, I don’t see myself upgrading.
Yeah I think this is the price for my soul, I'll keep using the data mining LG TV. Perhaps I ought to just throw it on a vlan that i turn off whenever i dont watch the tv.
4 replies →
For what it's worth, depending on when you bought it, if $130 was an impulse buy in the year you bought it (and your financial situation is similar), a sizable chunk of that price difference is just inflation.
For example, a $130 impulse buy in 2015 is a ~$184 impulse buy in 2026.
2 replies →
Go back a year and 8GB of RAM would cost around $30. Today, it's going to be $120. Apple really wanted to increase the amount of RAM from 4GB to 8GB to support on-device Siri AI, but RAM isn't cheap at the moment.
The move to the A19 also meant that they couldn't go with LPDDR4X RAM and instead had to use more expensive LPDDR5X (IIRC).
It is crazy. I expect the new Apple TV to be a flop because $300 is just a lot. The problem is that Apple is a little boxed in on this device. Apple wants to re-use the A19, but that locks them into expensive DDR5 RAM. They want to push Siri AI, but that locks them into 8GB RAM. Unlike the iPhone, there aren't as many other opportunities with the App Store, Apple Pay, search engine placement revenue, etc.
Storage has also gone up a lot and Apple is no longer selling a 64GB model. Most streaming sticks have 4-16GB of storage and it's usually really slow/cheap storage. The new Apple TV has 128GB of storage and the price for that has probably gone from around $25 to $50.
You say that it's fine from "$200 to $300", but that's not really true. It's gone from $250 to $300 when you look at the 128GB model. I still think it's crazy that it went from $150 to $300 in the same year, but the outgoing 128GB model was already $250 after the price hikes earlier this year.
The problem is that Apple didn't want to reign in their product for the current market and I somewhat get that. What's the point of a new Apple TV if it's just "we updated the processor." For me, the point would be AV1 and VP9 decoding, but Apple wanted to push Siri AI.
Other high-end TV devices have also seen big increases in price. The Fire TV Cube went from being $110-140 to now $200 - and with the Fire TV Cube you're getting Cortex-A73 processor cores from 2016, 2GB LPDDR4X, and 16GB storage. At least Apple is giving you 8GB LPDDR5X and 128GB of storage and a processor that is way better.
The Google TV Streamer is $150 now with 4GB RAM and 16GB storage, but with LPDDR4 RAM and Cortex-A55 cores - and it's still $150.
A Roku Ultra is 2GB RAM and 4GB storage with Cortex-A55 cores and costs $150.
I think we're seeing that there's still some really old stock out there that's cheap, but we're seeing the prices climb on competitors too. Google raised its price 50%. Amazon has raised its price 40-80%. Apple raised its price 54-67% on the same-model and launched the newer model with double the RAM, more expensive RAM, a processor that's 4 years newer, etc.
I think it's likely that Google, Roku, and Amazon simply don't upgrade their streaming devices during this parts shortage. I think a lot of people will be fine with a 12nm Cortex-A55 based TV streamer with limited RAM and storage (and slow RAM and storage). I love how fast my Apple TV is. It's amazing the difference in UI lag. But I think most companies aren't going to prioritize that premium experience, especially during a parts shortage.
> the outgoing 128GB model was already $250 after the price hikes earlier this year
This is a great point, a lot of the press coverage missed this.
Not having a cheaper alternative (eg a stick) was curious though. The baseline price of $300 might cause sticker shock.
1 reply →
This is the kind of analysis I was hoping to get when I posted my original comment, thanks so much for this info.
apple probably was losing money on the old Apple TV with old 4gb ram and 64gb storage in low volumes anyway and they probably would have to pay even more going forward. the upgrade seems to make sense from supply chain standpoint to standardise storage and chips across devices.
If anything apple is probably bring value to new buyers of Apple TV in this market. At 299$ you are getting hardware that will last quite some time as opposed to a 200$ device that might cost maybe 250$ in six months and give you lot less hardware capabilities.
3 replies →
I was going to say “to be fair”, but it’s still ridiculous but my understanding is that the 130 one was wireless only and the higher one and new one are Ethernet too (not that a NIC adds that cost…)
The person in the other thread is incorrect, an Apple TV connected to HomePods can be configured to advertise HDMI Audio Return Channel so that anything your TV is displaying has its audio routed through it.
Having said that I eventually replaced my pair of HomePod Minis with a Sonos soundbar because I wanted something with a bit more oomph to it, although I'd maybe have considered getting a pair of the big HomePods and using the Minis as rear speakers had this been available at the time.
I can confirm! I have an eARC setup with an AppleTV, 2 big homepods, a gaming PC and a projector.
I had to buy a special HDMI switch because my projector is eARC-naive, but my understanding is that a lot of modern TVs are eARC-aware and a special switch is not required. The one downside to my setup is that I have to press a button on the HDMI switch to toggle between the PC and the AppleTV, no remote control, but hey it's good to stretch your legs now and then right?
Re audio quality, I really like my big HomePods and find they fill the room quite well and have a solid low range to them. I'd also agree that the HomePod Minis are not suitable for a living room entertainment experience.
Yup, using eARC with ATV and HomePods, and it just works. Just switch input on tv to my PS5 and audio comes right through the HomePods
No issue whatsoever, latency is fine, but a little too high for shooters and the like—but I use headphones then anyway.
Dumb q but did you ever have apple tv -> tv -> sonos soundbar set up in a way where you were able to control the sonos soundbar audio from the iphone remote app?
Yes, LC OLED to Sonos Arc. Works a treat. At one point the remote started malfunctioning and I had to cover the IR transmitter with tape, but otherwise extremely reliable. Remote on iPhone works fine to control volume. The only thing is that if you add other Sonos speakers (say, in the kitchen as well as TV room) the mute only mutes the TV.
I have a samsung home theatre audio system and all the basic functions such as volume control, mute, and power control is possible from an actual apple remote or the same apple remote app on an iphone.
Good to know, thank you.
How is life in the Sonos ecosystem? I vaguely recall there being some controversy around them a few years back, and I'm generally distrustful of third party hardware companies attempting to write software.
It’s ok. Their app isn’t great, but the underlying technology is. Spotify can directly play to one of their speakers. Their local protocol is also well understood and you can do most things with it, so you can vibe code your own replacement app pretty easily. The problem is once you hit their cloud APIs the latency is way too high for something like a speaker.
1 reply →
I have full size HomePods beside the living room TV, and the one in my studio, and I've never been able to get this feature to work.
works for me on quite a few different TVs and setups. but my current TV requires using HDMI port 3. maybe an Ai can help you troubleshoot it!
2 replies →
Doesn't seem like it. Siri AI is not even available in all languages yet either. $429 CAD is crazy. You can get a whole mini PC and a Bluetooth remote for less and slap LibreElec on it even at today's crazy prices. And it'll be a better remote too.
Last time I tried the Media PC thing it ended up being somewhat of a nightmare. Had to spend significant amount of time setting up MadVR with my video player and get HDR HDMI passthrough working, but it was always very flaky. Occasionally an Nvidia driver update would break it completely. Dolby Vision wasn't even an option.
I really wanted to make it work, but it ended up being an annoying hassle. I got a Shield TV and it has been a much better solution.
Not sure if things have changed since then (~5 years ago).
The way I use mine is just running a standard desktop (with the scaling turned up so it's a bit more readable) and then browsing for the video files on my NAS in the file explorer. I have one of those Logitech wireless keyboard/trackpad combos for input. Obviously this is pretty clunky, but it's a hell of a lot less flaky than something like Kodi. I use Linux on mine, but you could do the same thing in Windows if you wanted.
$429 CAD is crazy for sure but there's a running joke in my group chats of me sending a link to an Apple TV every time someone posts about their Kodi box breaking. It's not set and forget like an Apple TV at all...
My Apple TVs have not been set and forget. Apple's aggressive storage saving makes it so that it resets storage for, and I get logged out of, apps that I don't use frequently. It'll also randomly need a reboot to solve the problem of some videos not playing correctly.
It's definitely not the most troublesome player I've dealt with, but rebooting and logging back into apps randomly can be frustrating.
I think the only problems I've had on mine were network related and I would have had the same problems with an ATV since it can't magically fix DNS or my NAS being off.
If you want a privacy focused solution it's probably the most private. Yeah, admittedly harder to use but I'm not recommending it to my parents.
People haven't been running kodi in ages. You can install jellyfin on an Nvidia shield without any issues
3 replies →
At 429 you can get a whole new tv.
3 replies →
> Siri AI is not even available in all languages yet either.
Siri AI is increasingly looking like a product that's exclusively for Americans. An unfortunate side effect of the EU attempting to become a regulatory superpower but failing to export its rules to the rest of the world.
Don't worry Europeans: you aren't missing out.
Nah, Apple are just holding out on features from the EU so that they try to force their hand in other regulation. It's just blackmail.
3 replies →
HomeView, HomePod and AppleTV should be one device. A powerful home server + a bunch of low powered clients and receivers all over the home. No need for 8gb RAM in all of them..
> $300 might be a decent price if you use it for all of the things that it can do
What exactly can it do besides launching streaming apps?
It's also a hub for Apple Home and a Thread border router. And it works with HomePods.
It's a barebones barely functioning hub with hardly any functionality (because HomeKit itself is barely more than that).
Thread border router is nice I guess.
Integration with HomePods is ... well, if you have HomePods.
So... No real functionality to justify the price.
2 replies →
At this price I’d also want a Dolby vision Blu-ray player. Strong overlap with this product and physical media people.
Yeah it's way too expensive. I would like to upgrade my 4K ATV to a more powerful chip but not for $300. I only use mine for streaming and already have a home theater Atmos setup. Couldn't care less about Siri, AI features, microphones, etc.
Maybe they'll release a 32/64 GB version once they have harvested the whales.
I was watching stuff on my Chromecast 4k or whatever. That occasionally stutters or frameskips, so I moved to my PS5 pro.
The PS5 pro has plenty of horsepower. Fewer problems, but I see it occasionally skip or freeze slightly when playing back from some providers.
I've read Apple TV somehow has this figured out, and since I expected a new model I've been waiting for this one. It's not cheap but I want to be able to stream TV/film without any of those issues. I'm not quite ready to go the super premium route by getting a kaleidescape. I also want to use the bluetooth functionality from time to time.
This has been Apple's niche forever. Create a product with a few extra bells and whistles, better craftsmanship, and charge a fat premium that people who care about those things are willing to pay.
Nvidia Shield now costs $300 too.
The same old laggy device from like 8 years ago? They still make and sell those?
What's crazy is that it's still close to the best device you can get.
I'd upgrade my Shield Pro to something else but there's nothing to upgrade to that doesn't have some compromise on formats or capabilities.
10 replies →
I have the 2017 model and haven't noticed any lag as of yet?
6 replies →
In Japan the new Apple TV costs ¥49,800. For comparison - that was the launch price of the PS5 in 2020. I know a lot has happened with inflation and the exchange rate since then, but the result is that it's no longer a small purchase and now costs more than many 4K TVs that run Google TV. And the 4K Amazon Fire TV Stick is currently on sale for ¥5,980. I'm sure the Apple TV is much more capable, but for most people those other options are good enough.
My family actually prefers to use the apps on our LG TV than Apple TV. Even after explaining all of the privacy issues, their reaction was basically "meh, who cares, it's more convenient this way".
Apply TV + two HomePod Mini’s is precisely my setup. I wanted a TV in my living room without it dominating the space. The only practical location was over the fireplace, so I went with a “frame” TV.
It’s not a home theater by any stretch, but perfectly adequate for every day viewing.
It’s worth it for me because I’m still using an Apple TV 4K 2017 that I bought in 2019. It struggles with a lot of Plex content. The price tag does feel high, but taking into account post-Covid inflation and component cost increases due to the AI bubble, it makes sense. An Nvidia shield pro cost exactly the same (in Canada, at least).
My home theatre set up is through a Denon receiver. I love my gen1 HomePods for listening to music, but I can’t understand why anyone would buy four HomePods rather than a proper surround setup.
Others have already pointed out that your assumption of Apple TV not spying on you is wrong, I’d like to make a meta-comment on that.
Apple regards privacy as a feature, and I mean that precisely: some places they implement it, other places they decide it’s not worth it, and they only ever tell you about the former. A good example is iMessage: everybody in tech knows it’s E2EE, many fewer realize that the other three copies of your iMessage data on Apple’s servers are just, uh, not encrypted.
You can’t have the same intuition for Apple and privacy that you would for a group like Signal. You need to instead ask yourself whether you fully understand what you need, then whether Apple has guaranteed precisely and fully that, without weasel words.
> many fewer realize that the other three copies of your iMessage data on Apple’s servers are just, uh, not encrypted
With Advanced Data Security enabled?
Of course, then there's the persons you're talking to. I figure they are one of your "other three", another is the iCloud copy (deduped from backups) ostensibly resolved by advanced data security, what's the third?
I was thinking of push notification data and skipping several other significant partial leaks. After a little research, I think I overstated the push data leak, though it’s still significant. Anyway, framing it as copies was a rough approximation, the issue is many high probability partial copies resulting in virtual certainty of unencrypted access to any desired data.
iMessage leaks I know about:
- iCloud backups. While I appreciate Advanced Data Protection, I still count this because it’s not available everywhere, most people have it off, and most people with it off are unaware of it backdooring the E2EE marketing they still saw.
- Recipients’ copies, and all the ways their copies get copied. Yes, tricky to address, that’s the comment. While no app can guarantee no unencrypted recipient copies, privacy focused apps do make it not happen unintentionally and by default.
- APN leaks the timestamp, sender, and recipient of every message. Especially powerful in combination with recipient copies.
- Apple controls the key directory and can MITM at will. As usual, see Signal for a high profile attempt at a centralized key directory that’s resistant to controller abuse.
- Contacts, Siri, and Apple Intelligence all ingest then upload iMessage data.
- No source code or reproducible builds. Obvious reasons, still a real hole.
The other person's iCloud backup I assume.
Avanced Data Security keeps your copy in iCloud safe, but doesn't help with the people you are messaging's copy.
If you live in the UK you can't enable ADS at all, apple cares about your privacy but not enough to piss off the UK government it seems.
> other three copies of your iMessage data on Apple’s servers are just, uh, not encrypted
Because they want to allow people to recover them.
Not a little, am a lot surprised. It started at $79 and then bumped to $150 and now doubled again to 300. Definitely was not expecting this jump.
I use mine for average of ~7 years, so that helps justify just biting the bullet and paying for whatever is best at the time.
If it has decent RAM and had it been cheaper, OpenAI alone will keep this product out of stock. This is Apple's love for the retail consumers that they were forced to increase the price just so that Sam would think twice before hoarding them.