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Comment by hagbard_c

3 days ago

> Given that all nation states are more or less "made up out of thin air"

Not really, they tend to be created through conquest and/or colonisation followed by stabilisation around a common culture. Britannica has an article on the subject worth reading:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/nation-state

Here's the key components of what make a nation state as listed in the article:

A nation-state is a sovereign political entity where a state governs in the name of a community identifying as a nation. Its legitimacy arises from the right to self-determination of a core national group, who view the state as their own and its territory as their homeland.

Key features include:

* Defined Territory A nation-state has a specific territory, over which it has exclusive jurisdiction.

* Sovereignty It possesses the power to govern its territory without external interference, recognized since the Peace of Westphalia (1648).

* National Identity A shared history, culture, and language often create a sense of national identity, though this isn't always the case.

* Compulsory Membership Citizenship within the state is compulsory.

* Monopoly of Force The state claims the sole right to use armed force within its borders.

In the case of "the Palestinian people" and "the Palestinian state" these were created in 1964 by the KGB which drafted the 'Palestinian National Charter' and staffed the 'Palestinian National Council' with 422 selected members. They provided training, intelligence, financing and directed operations all in a clearly successful attempt to portray the PLO as a legitimate national liberation movement. By manufacturing Palestinian nationalism and backing the PLO the KGB successfully promoted it on the international stage which helped the PLO gain observer status at the UN in 1974 and recognition from various states.

I know what a nation state is, just wondering what makes Palestine stand out as an especially artificial one in your view. Is foreign involvement the key factor here?

  • The fact that is was created by an outside actor to be used as a tool is the major factor. It is still used for that same purpose and only for that purpose, there is no real nation state as such other than in the imagination of those who use it as a tool. This "state" has not benefited its inhabitants in any way since their "rulers" have only used them as tools and human shields in their power plays.

    • Sounds rather hyperbolic to me. By similar logic, one could argue that Israel's only purpose is to serve as a Western outpost in the Middle East. There's some truth in that but hardly tells the whole story.