Comment by huijzer
1 day ago
> We software engineers and lawyers would be smart to start retraining (and adjusting our living standards) now!
As someone who recently switched from data scientist to electrician, starting the day can be pretty tough because you have to get physically moving and uncomfortable, but I feel way better at the end of the workday than after an office job. Most of the time, the work is pretty uncomfortable, but somehow it's a lot of fun.
I've done it with Local 60. I didn't last long. The work is legit heavy and hours are crazy. I lasted 4 months before I figured it is not for me. 6 am safety meetings and talk about injuries or someone getting decapitated was not a good motivator either.
My programming cohort in the '90s were predominantly ex-trades and service and the pay was initially a cut. The work environment and the people were almost a middle finger to everyone I couldn't stand in the real world, and they paid me to solve logic problems.
A large part of the trades is learning how to deal with toxic coworkers or shops, or understanding that you're being worked like a rented mule for no real reason. And I was able to leave all that behind for a moment.
You weren't kidding, one of the first things that popped up when I searched Local 60 was the regional chapter talking about their Death Benefits!
It's easy to insulate a robot.
The difficulty with human abilities in vision, locomotion and particularly coordination and manipulation is due to their arithmetic complexity being high. Modern deep learning solves that, LLMs provide the "interface" for planned action.
From the outside, this process of "solving" perhaps looks like "robots stumble around haplessly". But it's just the same as with mathematicians in the intellectual realm: when the level of ability surpasses that of humans, it appears as a "sudden event" to outsiders, having occurred far faster than anticipated.
There are no "safe havens".
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Back when I worked shifts I had a colleague who looked like he had 'flu after a set of early starts.
The safety brief is supposed to motivate you to work safely so maybe they need to work on how they present it. I saw a couple of colleagues injured in my old job (EMS) but only seen a member of the public decapitated.
Arc Flash training will get your attention.
I don’t know where you live but here in the Netherlands we always turn the power off first. (Another thing I like about the trades so far are jokes like this.)
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I was a software engineer at a FAANG, now an airline pilot. I feel a bigger sense of satisfaction with my job now, because at least at the end of the day I helped people get to where they needed to go.
The work is was doing in big tech was pretty far from anything that would help people in any tangible way.
The money isn't as good but the office view is way better.
I'm glad to see very poor coverage for transportation jobs on the AI benchmarks. May that continue until I'm done flying, at least AI probably won't ruin that for me any time soon.
How much money did you spend in getting all of the hours + licenses?
I bought my own airplane to do a lot of my ratings, then sold it for a decent profit, I think it was pretty much a wash. I also flew my wife and kids all around the country and had a wonderful time.
I offset the costs by doing flight instruction, which is a very common route. To get to the flight instructor stage by renting airplanes is probably in the order of a $50k investment, with a significant variance depending on the cost of living.
As a caveat to this, all my experience is in the US.
> I'm glad to see very poor coverage for transportation jobs on the AI benchmarks. May that continue until I'm done flying, at least AI probably won't ruin that for me any time soon.
No offense but pilots are probably at peak automation since their job has mostly been reduced to being a glorified AutoPilot system babysitters mainly needed for regulatory hedging. The ground transportation is still fair game though.
Airplane automation has shown to be rather bad at diagnosing what is wrong and coming up with a workaround.
For example, engine falls off. The automation doesn't know that happened, it just sees various problems like the hydraulic pressure falls, and for some reason the engine thrust went to zero.
When I was at Boeing, an incident was recounted to me where the autopilot glitched and rolled the plane over into a vertical dive. It was going so fast it entered "separation", where the airflow no longer flows over the flight controls. In other words, the pilots were just along for the ride.
But the pilot figures, since we're dead anyway, let's try lowering the landing gear and see if it slows the jet down. He did, and it ripped the doors off and bent the gear back, but it slowed enough that the flight controls could get a "bite" and the pilots were able to regain control and landed safely.
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Being responsible for knowing what to do when autopilot fails has pretty good job security actually. The job might be babysitting, but no one wants to be in a flying tube without a captain that can at least let us know when we’re all going to die
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You’ve never been in a cockpit while a plane has been flying have you?
is there a reason to think swe won't become the same? llm pilot, accountability guy, and has enough skill to manually pilot in extraneous situations.
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do you actually understand how modern airplanes work in practice or is this just based off the fact that an airplane can land by itself?
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> pilots are probably at peak automation
Any role where the human is a buffer against chaos should be thought of as secure by everyone involved. All automation and information flow will be in service to this position. This is not a bottleneck, it is the point of the exercise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ESJH1NLMLs
> No offense but pilots are probably at peak automation since their job has mostly been reduced to being a glorified AutoPilot system babysitters mainly needed for regulatory hedging. The ground transportation is still fair game though.
Wow. You clearly have zero idea of what a pilot's job is, and it shows.
You are also severely underestimating how much work and regulation would be required to replace pilots. And this work can be undone in a flash the first time automation messes up.
Also note that plane automation heavily relies on sensors. Many plane accidents were caused by faulty sensors even with humans in the loop.
You made the right choice. You will outlast OpenAi and Anthropic. They sell hallucinations and best guesses. The future can't be built on that. A good pilot who cares about safety and details, that can't be replaced with an LLM.
Hello fellow electrician, I was previously electrical engineer :-) I enjoy healthy weight loss while not sitting continuously in the office.
From my few months of work, that seems likely yes. I'm way stronger in core and legs now.
How did you make the switch? Did you go back to school or do some sort of apprenticeship?
I have done multiple studies and they were always technical, so the company took a shot and hired me and would train me on the job. So far it's going well. They say I'm picking up stuff quickly and I occasionally help the head engineers with problems on their computers. This would probably be the same for most programmers. Reading drawings, connecting electrical circuits, and doing troubleshooting is surprisingly similar to programming.
Very cool! Best of luck on the transition
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I mean, from my perspective as an engineer, electricians’ work is just extremely primitive. I do not mean this as a disrespect - its hard and important work, but its on order of magnitude simpler mentally.
Of course many software "engineers" are nothing more than plumbers/electricians with data and that cohort is being quickly pushed out by AI. And our industry in general has conflated technicians and engineers which makes this worse.
But fundamentally, engineers job is to model the problem from the first principles and then apply that model to whatever problem. Technicians operate within the model, so I postulate anyone considering themselves an engineer is fundamentally a more capable electrician, plumber, carpenter, whatever than any master tradesperson.
I'm not speaking as someone that changed an outlet once and thinks they are now an "electrician". I have two decades of extensive property maintenance experience. I do everything myself and since my state does not allow pulling permits without licensure, I hold myself to commercial standards minimally. So EMT, MC, trapezes and gutters, no romex crap. Similarly, I will likely outsolder and outthread at least the current generation of "plumbers" that only know how to press things.
What I'm saying is extremely evident in any electricians' forum where its obvious that electricians just do not understand why is NEC written certain way. Then there' usually some "oracle" on said forums "deciphering" what the code is, despite it all being a pretty basic and coherent spec.
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OT. What’s the going rate for adding a new circuit from the panel? Let’s say the circuit ended with an external outlet outside of the garage and to an outlet inside the garage.
This fits right alongside product asking how much work is it to move any button somewhere else in the UI. It depends which button, where it starts and where it ends, and even which app we're talking about.
Old work is always harder than new work. It varies by how your home is designed. It varies by where your panel is located and where your garage is located. You will pay a premium for the extra time and pain in the butt it causes.
As a great example, my friend asked for assistance with their home's street light not working. Long story short is that they ran a UF (underground feed) line directly under her concrete driveway (the contractor was too cheap to run it in conduit). I megged that line and it had a short. Their light stays off because rerouting through their house then digging up their yard isn't something they want to do (don't want to pay as I don't have that much free time and they don't want the massive headache it would cause). I was able to disconnect/wire off the failed part of the circuit so everything else works for them, so that's a win (and I didn't charge, so that was a win for them too I guess).
I'm in ship construction (industrial)
Depends heavily on how hard it is to get through the wall.
Also adding a new circuit to a panel is different than extending one from inside
Just stacco on wood frame. It’s adding a new circuit from the panel; might need to add a circuit breaker for the circuit. The wire can go through crawl space or over in attic.
For one exterior GFCI receptacle in a bell box with a weatherproof in-use cover and one GFCI receptacle in a plastic box with 50’ of 14/2 NM-B cable, I would charge you $650.
I don’t do the work myself.
If you run the wire yourself would only be a couple hours of labor
Insurances love this trick so much they will refuse to pay anything in case it even indirectly caused any event. At least get it verified by professional, lowering financial gain of such approach a bit
$80-140/hr, depending on market (residential electrical work).
How much net after all costs, driving time, fuel, tools, equipment, truck, dues, and company’s take?
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