Comment by jvanderbot
9 hours ago
Look, people are going to pile on and talk about how much they enjoy coding now. Those people have processed this change differently or sooner or later than you have.
This is ok. You will process the change, and you'll come out stronger for having done so. It takes time to decide what you want to do in the world, and even more time to decide how to react to the world changing and moving away from your planned path. And it takes even more time to actually see if the world is moving in a way incompatible with your plans.
It will be tempting to cycle into negative predictions and negative self-talk. This will not help, and will not be productive.
You, ryandvm, built a career around something you love, and that is amazing. You can choose to do it again, to find something you love, to be stalwart about how you work and who you work with, or any number of other options. The thing that nobody can change is your agency.
I struggle with the nature of work every day, and have for months. It has caused me to re-evaluate what I work on, why I do it, how I structure my finances, where my kids go to school, literally everything. Still the ship turns, as it must.
Reach out if you want to chat.
This comes off as patronizing , as if there is only one perspective outcome that you must adjust to
That wasn't my intent. The intent is that the prevailing pushback that coding is more fun now doesn't apply and need not. That OP has to come to terms with that they want from the new world, even though nobody can say for sure what they world is, other than "currently different"
You could divide "your future" into two paths, conservatism (not the US amalgamation) and "missing the times that'd been", or continue move forward and adjust as the world change, which it always will, both in positive and negative directions. Things are changing, this is hard to disagree with, even if people disagree how things are changing, most people probably need to rethink a lot of their assumed perspectives, as I too had to do, faced with what I believe to be new realities.
I don't feel like it's patronizing to remind people about achievements they've accomplished and that they're still a capable person. Nothing we say to each other here on HN should be taken as "This is how you must live you life" but more like "Here's is something I hope helps you, if not, no worries", as we hopefully assume good faith out of each other.
This is wisdom thanx.
I too have lost something I loved, I gained it after years of relentlessly focusing on maximizing what I loved and minimizing what cost me energy. And now the world flips on me.
The good news? I got pretty good at consciously finding the energy givers and drainers and optimizing for the givers, so I'll just keep doing that. I'll either start enjoying micro-managing LLMs, or find something else entirely. Or find that the LLMs need less and less micromanaging, or start enjoying whatever they need next year. (Point an army of agents in a direction?)
I came from the molecular biolab with Linux as a hobby, then when to software dev and infra. What's next ? Idk, I still love biology, keeping eyes and ears open...
Really wonderful comment. Thanks for sharing. I've noticed myself spiraling into doom-and-gloom scenarios about the future of this job (and therefore my future), and I've found it really unhelpful and really unproductive, in the sense that it sort of narrows my mind into a tunnel vision of decreasing possibilities.
You sound like you're processing this well. I think I'm in the group of people you're talking about who aren't processing it well. What kind of conclusions have you come to regarding that list (what you work on and how, finances, kids, etc.)?
Observations:
* I made the classic mistake of assuming the present was permanent. It never is anyway, small changes always ruined the present. The accumulation of small changes over my career has changed the way I work probably as much/more than AI has changed it this year, if you can believe that.
* I discussed the family budget with my wife, and made a plan to halve our income requirements. It will require a race in the short term, but allows a coast later on. This is key for me - almost all my tension regarding this phase is about the future earning potential of our household. If that goes away, who cares how work changes?
* I made the other classic mistake of not remembering how much I have changed and adapted over time. The breadth of things I have worked on is pretty remarkable, and the things I have learned to do are crazy. While things are changing fast now, they aren't changing quite as negatively or immediately as some claimed they would. There's room to adapt.
* I stopped assuming I had to work the way people said I should. Aside from CEO mandates, there's a ton of wiggle room in how you produce code. I read changesets and make manual adjustments to the pattern, etc. I write my own parts when I want to. I specify a design that I want rather than asking for whatever the AI wants. I get to own everything but the typing that way, and my RSI is improving dramatically b/c of it.
* I use AI to set up programming challenges when I feel disconnected. It sets up a tangible problem, and acts like a coach only when I need it. I use this to preserve the feeling of sharpness. Earlier this year I challenged myself to write, in C, from man pages only, a "ping" and "traceroute" clone. I did so on a flight back from a work trip.
* And I started reaching out to friends to hang out more. It's hard to doom about AI when your friends and you are having a beer and playing Container or Captain Sonar. Life has always been what's "out there" not what radiates from your monitor.
All of what you said is wonderful, and I want to particularly call out this:
I think this gets to the heart of my disconnect with the "I miss coding" crowd. I still get to do most of the stuff I found fun w.r.t. creating software.
Typing the actual lines of code was fun, sometimes, but it was never the goal. I feel like I'm still solving the same problems.
Really appreciate it. You sound like a great friend to hang out with.
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The job description fundamentally changed to the point where we're expected to do something very different.
No amount of processing will move someone from ordering a steak to just enjoying their given peanut butter sandwich instead. They ordered the steak, and now the restaurant is telling us all too bad there's no steak anymore - eat your damn sandwich.
I don't think the metaphor works because a job is an agreement to exchange labor for money, not a service or a product that you purchase. But for the sake of argument, let's grant it. If a restaurant gives you a peanut butter sandwich instead of a steak, you can go to another restaurant that provides better service. Similarly, if an employee doesn't like the terms set by their employer, they can move to a different company, or start their own company on their own terms.
To quote the lovable DHH, "writing code by hand is no longer an economically viable activity"
To adjust the metaphor a bit.. the cows have revolted and we can no longer get any steak.
If writing code via AI is an order of magnitude faster there won't be companies hiring people who want to code by hand. If you try to start a company by doing so then you'll lose to competitors without that restriction.
The choices left are: be homeless, change careers completely or suck it up and do something you don't like after being career-catfished
When you think through the 'change careers' path it also sucks and might not even be viable for many
I'm lucky I like coding with AI.. but I have worked jobs I hate and it's hell, and there's no amount of processing it that'll fix it except getting out of the situation
I think this is basically the right attitude. The focus should be on what you really value intrinsically, and what changes you want to see in the world. Those determine the goals you set, which determine how you choose what to learn, what to work on, and what tools to use. The metaphor of a "career path" was always questionable, but even more so now. The most important skills are dealing with uncertainty and ambiguity and being able to adapt to new circumstances.
Thank you for a great, empathetic comment.
Am I insane? I could never imagine speaking to somebody like this in real life. I'm not saying this was ill-intentioned but there's something about this comment that comes off as REALLY weird to me. It's like religious/cult-speak.
You're not insane. And if you are insane, you're not alone, because I used to get a similar feeling when I was first exposed to this kind of discourse. It creates cognitive dissonance in people like you and me, because you can clearly see that it was well-intentioned and grounded in the idea of empathy, but it ends up lacking empathy in ways that people like us consider important.
The comment you're referring to aims to be helpful and empathetic, but the fundamental problem with it is that it essentially dismisses the very real problems people are raising. It tells you that the change is inevitable and that you shouldn't and/or can't fight it. It tells you that what you're dealing with are your own feelings and, although they're "valid" (in the sense that it's understandable and human to have them), you need to work on overcoming them or finding a way around them. And if you can't, then you should either move out of the way of the progress or you'll remain unhappy.
It's an incredibly frustrating way of being talked to, one that I've seen managers employ quite a lot. I call it the "management aikido", because it takes your own impetus and turns it back on you, by reframing whatever issue you brought up to put the onus on you. Most of the managers I've seen use this technique believe they're doing a good thing by "empowering" you to deal with problems. What it does, in fact, is discourage you from raising issues in the first place.
On top of having the same "management aikido" vibe, @jvanderbot's comment ends up being "socially insensitive", for lack of a better way of describing it.
Over the course of history, we've seen great shifts -- typically tied to technological evolution -- that caused significant suffering to a group of people but (arguably) ended up being a net positive for our society. And when we look back, we inevitably feel a sense of empathy for those people and we recognize that what happened to them sucked and we express the hope that maybe next time we could do better as a society.
And then it happens again, like it's happening now, and we not only fail to do better as a society, but we talk like trying to do better is unreasonable.
That, in essence, is what makes @jvanderbolt's comment sound "religious" to you: the unquestioned assumption that what is happening is supposed to be happening and that it's you who has a problem that you have to work on.
Yeah I think you nailed it. I also think there's a degree to which we pretend victims of economic injustice aren't "real", for lack of a better word.. If the original comment was re-framed around vehicular manslaughter or rape, I think people could more clearly see that it isn't really empathetic. That's why the sheer reaction that it got from so many people kind of blew me away.
I'm definitely stealing "management aikido" by the way, thanks for that. :)
It struck me that way as well, and I can’t put my finger on why
A non-zero amount of people are preparing (or have already) to leave the industry entirely.
Even if one were to continue doing everything by hand, it will still be harder compared to others who aren't. As in, companies will come to expect more/faster work than you are capable of, so it still affects us old farts that don't want to change.
We'll find something else, sure, or just retire... but not everyone is/was ready to.
I'm not sad on a personal level per se, I can still be positive and look to the future, but I lament what we increasingly no longer have.
Very well written, thank you.
> You, ryandvm, built a career around something you love, and that is amazing. You can choose to do it again, to find something you love, to be stalwart about how you work and who you work with, or any number of other options. The thing that nobody can change is your agency.
I've always taken the view that it was luck - lucky that my interests aligned with the market, lucky the market put value in what I am interested in doing, and lucky that I was given the chance.
I was never in it for the money, I was always in it for the enjoyment, and I will remain in it for the same thing.
The market for my knowledge and skills might come and go, there might have been a brief moment in history when someone like me could make a living off these skills, but like so many other creative careers that time was always going to be fleeting