Comment by yipinwong
7 days ago
You gotta make trade-offs.
Two facets here. Economy and Security. Is current US governemnt in favor of providing cheaper, less SOTA models to Americans at the cost of exposing US content to Chinese firms? Chinese firms by Chinese law are forced to handover whenever CCP asks them to.
Given all sensitive information, the security outjustify the cost here.
There are other areas we need to look at but for my analogy, this should work.
> Chinese firms by Chinese law are forced to handover whenever CCP asks them to.
Are we pretending the same isn't true of American firms?
> Are we pretending the same isn't true of American firms?
Are we really pretending it's equivalent?
>Are we really pretending it's equivalent?
Yes, it is equivalent if you live anywhere but America.
Certainly its not the same, or atleast thats what thet want you to think. BUT I thought uncle sam had the ultimate authority?
Its the land of freedom until they decide they dont like you.
The steel man is that American requests must be lawful, are done transparently through the courts, are appealable, and don’t come through secret agencies.
The titanium gold alloy man is that the Chinese laws are inarguably stricter and more authoritarian than the US laws, regardless of the actual implementation of either.
> American requests ... are done transparently through the courts, are appealable, and don’t come through secret agencies
This reads like someone who has paid absolutely no attention to American law for 25 years.
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I'm sorry friend.
Police force is hiding their face. Exquisite contracts are being made through informal announcements. Strong suspicion on inside trading from high ranks. A new level of people policing. Waivers for criminals already convicted to support coup on other foreign states.
Lies or at least speeches that are plain denial of obvious facts or brush citizen problems as they were mere senseless complaints
Speech about god punishment and the end of the days almost weekly Threats to use weapons graded of world level destruction for a conflict that "would have take a week"
Billionaire and trillionaires plainly saying what they want the government to do
In China, apparently there is at least one person who takes responsibility for everything no matter what and has been playing the discourse of growing together instead of attacking every single ally with unproven information while (seemingly) profiting from all crisis.
I don't know man. There is very little to defend. And look. I ain't American, and I still thought that guy had some good qualities despite the rest.
The nixonlike policy through the world in a state where only those people will have anything. Pledges for cheques, stocks, accounts. Not even that seems to be materializing up to now
I do like my American folks, wish all of them the best, but don't fall for "the world against you talk" This one is on you.
The United States government needs to make tradeoffs. They are as you list.
The Chinese government also needs to make tradeoffs. You can imagine what they are.
You as an individual also need to make tradeoffs. In doing so, you ought be sure to remember you’re not a nation state, you’re an individual human being.
(You may decide “I find myself one small being in a world full of nation states, and given that, I trust the US government to keep me safe, and therefore will align myself with its interests,” at which point “ban DeepSeek” is in your interests as well as those of the US government, but you shouldn’t get the two confused, lest you miss the moments those interests diverge.)
I am an individual living in a nation state that has nurtured and protected me and made me rich, comparatively, so it is in my interest to pledge allegiance to that nation and protect it in kind. One of the ways is by not giving training data to foreign models runners which doesn't mean we can't run the foreign models locally.
It’s currently in your interest to do so, or so you believe. That’s fine. Understand that may change, because, again, you are an individual and not a nation state, and specifically not the nation state you’re pledging allegiance to and putting your safety in the hands of.
I swear that "think of the children" as the means of getting perverse laws justified has just been switched with "but... China".
Let's not fool ourselves into trying to believe this is anything other than protecting the interests of a few of Donny Tango's mates. He has already proven that he has absolutely no problem throwing the USA, its citizens or its allies under the bus for a couple quid.
Eh I don’t buy it. The framework for a US owned Deepseek is there and easy to put together. What isn’t there is the money.
My assumption is that money has been hitting the right pockets to make that not happen.
Completely disregarding security aspect without any rebuttal for my claim.
Your assumption is half-assed because it's missing that
What is the security risk of using Chinese models hosted in the US by American companies?
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You can just host the inference locally... Baseten and Fireworks already do that for you.
“Completely disregarding security aspect”
Did you miss the part of my comment where I mentioned this would be the US’s version in your rush to reply as smugly as possible?
Maybe read the content of a response before responding.
Absurd. Deepseek is open source. You can just self host it.
lol. Yeah just use “CCP” and “security” as bogeyman keywords you’d absolve all the crimes from closed labs and win arguments automatically
The orders bans the use of open weights provided by DeepSeek too. It bans the use of the open source inference engine DeepSeek released today.
Sure. Wayyy more secure to shovel federal data into OpenAI /s