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Comment by ernubufiei

7 hours ago

> On October 21st at 07:41 UTC, more than six hours before the coordinated release, Chainguard unilaterally broke the embargo and published built images containing the fix.

This is incredibly damming of Chainguard. I struggle to see justification for this, even with the chaos approaching the coordinated release.

They (is it the CEO?) commented on it earlier here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50176735

In their place I would worry that this was the last time anyone shared an embargoed build with them.

  • Let's hope so. Shall we create a new norm? A 365 day timeout, for companies like Chainguard that deliberately break embargoes.

    Very irresponsible behaviour in my opinion; and if it's a decision made unilaterally by their CEO, probably a breach of their SOC 2 certification. What's next? "$X isn't patching this CVE fast enough, here's a binary blob of our fix, don't worry, we're making this free!"

I dunno, the post is awfully critical of Chainguard for leaking a fixed binary 6 hours early, but it was the research firm "partner" that "mistakenly" posted the dancing anime POC video over 24 hours early that created the mass panic (not to mention spawning millions of agents crawling the php codebase and trying to brute force a POC and probably using more energy than a lot of countries in the process).

I kinda get Chainguard's position here. They were part of the embargo, saw exploits hitting in the wild already and decided to release rather than hold things back.

Embargos make sense if no one is exploiting it yet, but if its out in the wild, the best path forward is releaseing as soon as possible.

This single-handedly assures that I will never, ever do business with Chainguard or any member of its C-suite executive team.

if their comment in true (linked in sibling comments), then it's really not damning. typically an embargo is ended when someone leaks early or it's being exploited in the wild.

so, if they saw evidence of exploits in the wild, it is not unusual at all to release the fix.

  • If they're gonna unilaterally release an exploit patch 6 hours before an agreed upon embargo for a CVSS 9.2 that affects like ~70% of the internet then they better have reams of evidence showing this was being exploited in a widespread manner and not just "we saw a dancing anime girl edit of a theoretical exploit on twitter, so we had to release it to the world"

    • And evidence they at least gave a heads up to everyone in on the embargo, eg "I have to release you all have 1 hour to get on board".

      There is a MASSIVE difference between a small number of people exploiting in the wild, and a few hours after a release a bazillion script kiddies doing so. The move to release and break an embargo was childish, absurd, self-serving, and lacking in all common sense. Not to mention, breaking trust.

      I agree with those in this thread who say, never going to do business with them. Ever.

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    • It's the age of LLMs. Exploits go from theoretical to real fairly quickly. PHP's open source, it's not impossible to conceive of someone seeing that video, getting the general idea of what to do, and working the rest out with a decent model.

There were signs that others broke the embargo too. Public (this one video everyone is talking about), but maybe also non-public. There were some rumors going around which part of PHP was affected. That was enough for some people to figure out the vulnerability.

But it's also possible, that some attackers got non-public inside information.

If the embargo is already broken in a meaningful way, it suddenly becomes much less clear if it is still in place after all. Emphasis on >less clear<.

Brain rot is making us incompetent, dangerously impatient, or a mixture of both.

Not sure if this [1] comment is from them?

Because if there are already publicly available exploits seen, it makes no more sense to keep holding patches back just so that OpenAI etc. can get a nice press release

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50176735

  • So if I'm understanding correctly:

    1. There was a leak of the pre-announcement

    2. Calif sees leak, goes and releases dancing anime girl video before pulling it, goes viral

    3. Chainguard sees dancing anime video, doesn't recognize Calif, and thinks the exploit is in the wild

    [Edit 3a]: Or alternatively, Calif's leaked video causes the PoC to be found by others by providing enough of a lead

    4. Chainguard releases updated binaries thinking it doesn't matter, causing the real exploit to then be found early

    5. Which then causes PHP Foundation to basically have a meltdown

    Personally I blame Calif for the unprofessional video which absolutely completely looks like some script kiddie and for being too detailed [edit 2: assuming Calif produced it and the anime wasn't a prank edit]. In this case it wasn't just unprofessional fun but may have literally messed up the responsible disclosure.

    • Not really sure if 3 is correct. Might have been Calif leaks the video -> it goes viral -> people make PoCs based on the video -> Chainguard releases the binary because there seem to be credible PoCs out there (that are not just the Shigure Ui video).

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