Comment by pen2l
9 hours ago
Formlabs uses a proprietary resin cartridge... it's the paper printers situation all over again, the printers themselves are not that expensive but the disposable ink costs an arm and a leg.
Don't go with Formlabs, support any of the open-platform alternatives.
And also, be aware that these printers require some serious development work (you need solvent to wash away uncured resin (if you ask me, this basically necessitates a chemical hood... Formlabs will happily upsell the "Form Wash" for this for another 699). If uncured resin falls on your floor (which has happened to me a little too many times), boy is it a horror cleaning it up even if you have industrial grade solvents; FDM printers are easier and their "ink" is much, much less expensive by comparison.
It says it includes "Open Material Mode" which let's you "...print with any 405 nm photopolymer resin or 1064 nm powder on Formlabs 3D printers..."
I believe the Open mode in Form printers disable couples of interesting features that don't seem strongly connected to material properties of resin used, like resin recovery to tank and vat stirring wiper.
Form resin vats/tanks/tray/bed/whatever you call it are also not just proprietary, but their equivalent of FEP film is not replaceable. The resin vat usually have what is referred to as FEP film, a thin transparent Teflon sheet at the bottom of about a phone screen protector thickness and durability, stretched and pre-tensioned like a drum. The non-adhesion performance of film affects print quality, and it needs replacement eventually(I believe it is characterized as after x thousand layers printed, internally by printer manufacturers). On most printers, the replacement film can be bought and installed by the user. Formlabs printers use something other than regular FEP, and uses tool-less assembly that cannot be reversed, and therefore the whole proprietary tank needs to be discarded and replaced.
It's like Bambu Lab but the printbed is proprietary too and heated bed turns off for non-Bambu filaments. As if proprietary nozzles was not enough.
The amount of upselling, extra parts necessary for basic functionality, predatory resin pricing and specific open "modes" that are free to be subjects to amendment by contract makes this seem like a cash grab for investors rather than serious product. Really sour taste in the mouth from this.
Just buy an open source version from China that has the necessary hardware in an open format and let Claude adjust the software if there are concerns.
I'm unclear what the open source version from China of a resin printer is. Creatlity and Elegoo don't appear to be at all it as they lock you to the chitubox ecosystem.
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> Just buy an open source version from China
References and links?
There is currently no open source version of the high resolution monochrome LCDs. The LCDs and their drivers lock you into the Chitu ecosystem.
The problem, as Chitu figured out, is that as soon as you cough up the NRE to make the LCDs and make it publicly available, EVERYBODY will copy you and then there will be no profit left to sink the NRE that you just spent.
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* If you buy the "Form Studio 1 Resin Tank Pro" extra at $79 because the included tank "is not compatible with Tough 1500 Resin or materials needing to utilize Open Material Mode"
OMG $79 more! That ruins everything!
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This printer at least comes with the "Open Material Mode (included)" that lets you print with 3rd party resins. I'm sure the workflow won't be quite as nice as with the Formlabs native resin. That is unless you can somehow refill the old jugs or buy empty ones. Before long I imagine 3rd party compatible containers will show up.
> Formlabs will happily upsell the "Form Wash" for this for another 699
(A separate aside, since the main ones were addressed: Formlabs also launched a new "Wash+Cure" station that does wash and cure for $199, instead of their standalone (but better, of course) units that cost something like $1000 together.)
@pen2l what are you even talking about…?
1) form studio can use any material out of the box you just have to design your own print settings for it
2) form studio wash + cure is $200, not $699
3) the new resins are UL certified for low voc/indoor use, as well as score as non-skin irritants (OECD 439), and post-processed parts comply with ISO 10993 for long term skin contact
4) the new resins cost $30-$50ish per L, as opposed to fdm ~$25ish per kg. you also have to buy a tank that eventually wears out but imo when i’m printing a lot with the same material the tank cost doesn’t add much to the overall
5) fdm is great too, i have both in my shop. you should always use the right process and material for the job. if you need higher detail than what fdm can provide, more sophisticated materials, and an order of magnitude higher volumetric print speed, the form studio is a great option.
source: i don’t work at formlabs, but i used to
What are the open-platform alternatives? I was under the impression that the majority of printers used the CHITUBOX hardware platform internally, which was now locked to the CHITUBOX slicer. Has this changed? That would be wonderful news.
I don't think that Formlabs locks you into their wash and cure stations. Some of their printers lock you into their resin, but it looks like the Form Studio 1 discussed above and the Form 3, 3L, 4, and 4L let you use resin of your choice, although the Studio 1 does require you to buy a special $80 tray.
> I don't think that Formlabs locks you into their wash and cure stations.
I would posit from the the getgo the average joe shouldn't consider resin printers, they should opt for FDM printers, because with FDM printers when the printer finishes printing a part... that's it! You more or less just pick it up from the printbed and there you have it... with resin printers, you -HAVE- to wash away the surrounding uncured resin. So, sure, it doesn't lock you into the wash and cure station, but doing it manually is an absolute chore any which way and chances of getting gooey resin on your hands, your clothes, your furniture goes way up and it is the most profoundly annoying thing when it does.
Try out a resin printer at your local makerspace to see what they're all about and the work that's required to print a part and develop it with solvents; for yourself get an FDM printer, they're plenty good enough for the average joe.
Agreed, but it's worth calling out that some niches more or less require resin.
Anything small and aesthetic is going to basically require resin. Warhammer minis and jewelry (tiny filigree) come to mind.
FDMs have gotten better, but you're still not going to get those fine sub-millimeter details like you can with resin.
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IIRC, ChiTu Systems once tried to use their leverage against the printer brands that rely on their components, and printer brands pushed back by seeking an alternative systems supplier with a new slicer. ChiTu-based printers have gained compatibility for alternative slicers after that.
One of the main reasons to get the studio one is the UL GREENGUARD Gold Certification right? Their resins are much safer.
I love resin printer, but boys the amount of post-processing is really off-putting.
I run two Form 3's and run functional prototypes often. If you don't specifically need prints that are good in the way that SLA prints are good, don't get one. There's also the issue of managing and disposing of uncured resins (hello photoinitiators! we gotta keep you out of the water table!) and waste solvent. All the SLA vendors are real quiet about what you're supposed to do with the waste. "Just do whatever your local regs require."
I cannot emphasize enough how much I hate these Formlabs printers. I am dealing with them at work and wish to be working on anything else.
Perhaps you can emphasize the reasons you don't like them?
Do you have any specific recomendations?
If you’ve ever used resin printers, you know the cartridges are a good thing because the liquid inside is basically carcinogenic if it comes in contact with your skin, so a lot of people just don’t do resin printing for exactly that reason and this gets around that.
Except you will have failed prints (for me it's 1 out of every 20 with my form 4 with the kinds of parts I tend to print), which will require taking out the tank to clean obstructions and free-floating debris... and when you're having to filter the resin (like so: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/UdX94R3k7YU ), it's exceedingly hard to not get it in contact with your skin.
I agree that resin cartridges don't handle the resin handling problem.
Nitrile/latex gloves + eye protection + respirator are the absolute minimum for resin printing PPE. A long sleeve shirt wouldn't go amiss for rare flicked resin droplets. If you're not confident in your ability to prevent skin contact with resin, you shouldn't be doing resin printing.
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> And also, be aware that these printers require some serious development work (you need solvent to wash away uncured resin (if you ask me, this basically necessitates a chemical hood...
As a 3D printer enthusiast (I model stuff in OpenSCAD and print to fix / DIY stuff around the house/car etc.) and seen how easy 3D printing using filament as become, resin 3D printers just seem... Extremely messy to me.
I understand that for people doing stuff like miniatures resin might be more precise (but filament printers with tiny nozzles became extremely precise too) but it just feels like a lot of work compared to... Just 3D print with filament.
I may be wrong though.