ICE and DHS should be abolished, INS should be restored and immigration policy should be reformed to be far more humane. All of these employees should be barred from any and all future public service (and prosecuted where appropriate). There's no room for sympathy for an agency who routinely violates human rights, fires off tear gas by schools, kills civilians in the streets, fires their weapons into moving vehicles and on and on.
Unrelated to the content of the article, but what a wonderful site text.npr.org is. It looks like a slightly enhanced version of my iPhone's reader mode and it displays instantly, scrolling with no lag, stuttering, or dynamic loading of page elements.
In a similar vein, I've been using https://brutalist.report/ for a while just to browse headlines.
All the links lead to the full regular pages, so the articles themselves aren't "lightweight" like the CNN Lite version is. I still like how it lets me quickly peruse many headlines from lots of different categories and only click through onto something I'm genuinely interested in.
I wasn't aware of CNN Lite, I will add this to my news bookmarks.
I came across this years ago. It is pretty much the only news I will look at. They only update like 3 times a day too, so no incentive to keep coming back.
It was created in protest to GDPR - "see how terrible the web would be if we followed GDPR" - and backfired a bit, but apparently not enough to delete it.
The Compuserve and Netscape ISP website husks also feature no-nonsense text-only news pages with 2000s-style renderings that are near-instant on any device.
68k.news also exists but has been broken for a long time. It's maintained by a retro computing youtuber who seems to have abandoned it or isn't paying attention to its brokenness.
> The Germans knew to identify ex Stasi and their informants so they know who to beware of.
I thought it was quite the opposite: there were so many informants and records were shredded that it wasn't that easy to figure out. What was the mechanism for this identification? A public database records lookup?
The German communist party managed to destroy all of its records, so the people in charge of this hellscape managed to escape justice. Only the foot soldiers were exposed.
i had a woman i met at a policy conference confide that many bad people made it through both the nazi period and the east german times -- there's a type of sadist who maliciously complies with the rules in any way they can to the detriment of others who i despise and saw much too much of in the policy context.
i haven't been there in a long time, but this hacker looking across the pond, it looks like germany has changed...
i worry too many hackers have not sufficiently studied history.
I think the concept you want here is "just following orders" or even "mindless compliance", rather than "malicious compliance". Malicious compliance refers to a sense of justice obtained from technically following rules, when you either disagree with the rule or the authority, in a way that is counterproductive to the goals of the authority.
Speaking of which, I feel like ICE's next move is to start arresting people for not turning in their friends, neighbors, and coworkers. We know they're planning for it at least.
Trump will anyway throw them under the bus when he's done with them so it's a bit naive to expect their identities would be kept secret forever. And somehow they hoped those masks would do anything else beside terrorize Americans. As far as archival, yes that's a good idea. I'm sure the current admin will attempt to shred everything..
> Ottignon, who has worked on similar data leak projects in the past, rejected suggestions that he and others connected to the Department of Peace or Distribution[sic] Denials of Secrets were doxing government employees.
The law does not always reflect ethics. It is a snapshot, sometimes old, of the ethics (or lack thereof) of a time and place. Crimes are laudible when the letter of the law misaligns with the ethics of the time, and then eventually laws catch up.
If everyone always followed the law, nothing would ever improve.
I get the concept, but the question then is if it's ethical to release those names when most of DHS has nothing to do with ICE. The age old question of how much collateral damage is acceptable. It seems most of the praise being given casts DHS as being similar Nazis, but doesn’t consider who is actually involved or not.
From the article: "In a note attached to the files, the Department of Peace wrote, "They have our information, so it's only fair that we have theirs.""
Some seem to sincerely believe that renewed immigration law enforcement is morally evil.
I'm not sure why since it was enforced this way for decades before except for a few years recently. Now, I think that one can argue that ICE is overly aggressive, that it casts too wide a net, that too many mistakes are made, that it should focus on specific violations instead, etc. But these are arguments that can be made for any law enforcement agency, and have been for over 100 years in the USA. Sometimes, IMO, they were even justified.
That said, however, it also seems that many have latched onto ICE enforcement actions as a bell-weather pre-cursor to additional actions that will lead to a dystopian outcome. Or is in the process of doing so as we speak.
Thus, if one believes this to be true, then one can see why actions taken to fight/oppose/slow down the process can be viewed in a morally good light and something to be celebrated.
I was just watching a video the other day of ICE protestors blocking NYC bridge traffic. Tons of people coming out of their vehicles pleading with them to move so they could get to their job, drop their kid off, deliver a DoorDash order, etc.
I'm all for fighting against your enemies, even if I don't see it exactly the same way. But when I see stuff like that, it just seems totally disconnected from doing anything meaningful towards their enemies (besides making more of them, I guess).
ICE and DHS should be abolished, INS should be restored and immigration policy should be reformed to be far more humane. All of these employees should be barred from any and all future public service (and prosecuted where appropriate). There's no room for sympathy for an agency who routinely violates human rights, fires off tear gas by schools, kills civilians in the streets, fires their weapons into moving vehicles and on and on.
Unrelated to the content of the article, but what a wonderful site text.npr.org is. It looks like a slightly enhanced version of my iPhone's reader mode and it displays instantly, scrolling with no lag, stuttering, or dynamic loading of page elements.
I wish more of the web were like this.
Like text.npr.org - there is also a CNN "lite" version too: https://lite.cnn.com/
I agree whole heartedly I wish more of the web were like this.
In a similar vein, I've been using https://brutalist.report/ for a while just to browse headlines. All the links lead to the full regular pages, so the articles themselves aren't "lightweight" like the CNN Lite version is. I still like how it lets me quickly peruse many headlines from lots of different categories and only click through onto something I'm genuinely interested in.
I wasn't aware of CNN Lite, I will add this to my news bookmarks.
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Bring back WML sites?
note: WML/WAL was a way to enable browsing a web-like thing on low powered devices.
For a bit of time, popular websites were available in two variants, wml and html (more info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Application_Protocol)
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See too: CBC lite[0]
[0] https://www.cbc.ca/lite/news
And no doom scrolling. There is a bottom of the page and no Next Page button.
I came across this years ago. It is pretty much the only news I will look at. They only update like 3 times a day too, so no incentive to keep coming back.
It was created in protest to GDPR - "see how terrible the web would be if we followed GDPR" - and backfired a bit, but apparently not enough to delete it.
a friend found it when fucking around with a DNS enumeration tool a while back.
lite.cnn.com is also useful on slow connections
(i post using tor.)
Oath. Fantastic.
Zwounds. Marvelous.
Man, find of the day. This is such an refined way of viewing the news (and then stopping and going outside).
The Compuserve and Netscape ISP website husks also feature no-nonsense text-only news pages with 2000s-style renderings that are near-instant on any device.
68k.news also exists but has been broken for a long time. It's maintained by a retro computing youtuber who seems to have abandoned it or isn't paying attention to its brokenness.
Unlike the SS, surveillance goes both ways now...
The Germans knew to identify ex Stasi and their informants so they know who to beware of.
They really are turning into something like the Stasi:
https://www.wired.com/story/ice-is-running-one-of-the-larges...
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> The Germans knew to identify ex Stasi and their informants so they know who to beware of.
I thought it was quite the opposite: there were so many informants and records were shredded that it wasn't that easy to figure out. What was the mechanism for this identification? A public database records lookup?
And they're still being identified, decades later and still getting into trouble for it which I love.
The German communist party managed to destroy all of its records, so the people in charge of this hellscape managed to escape justice. Only the foot soldiers were exposed.
Not really a great example of justice.
[dead]
i had a woman i met at a policy conference confide that many bad people made it through both the nazi period and the east german times -- there's a type of sadist who maliciously complies with the rules in any way they can to the detriment of others who i despise and saw much too much of in the policy context.
i haven't been there in a long time, but this hacker looking across the pond, it looks like germany has changed...
i worry too many hackers have not sufficiently studied history.
> maliciously complies
I think the concept you want here is "just following orders" or even "mindless compliance", rather than "malicious compliance". Malicious compliance refers to a sense of justice obtained from technically following rules, when you either disagree with the rule or the authority, in a way that is counterproductive to the goals of the authority.
See https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/
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There was a guy from Japanese Unit 731 found working as a pharmacist many years after the war.
A monster hiding in plain sight.
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Speaking of which, I feel like ICE's next move is to start arresting people for not turning in their friends, neighbors, and coworkers. We know they're planning for it at least.
How do we know that?
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Discussion yesterday (330 points, 185 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50280864
The real importance of this is archival. Who knows what would have been burned and shredded to protect the masked brutes.
Trump will anyway throw them under the bus when he's done with them so it's a bit naive to expect their identities would be kept secret forever. And somehow they hoped those masks would do anything else beside terrorize Americans. As far as archival, yes that's a good idea. I'm sure the current admin will attempt to shred everything..
"And somehow they hoped those masks would do anything else beside terrorize Americans"
As an legal american immigrant, I don't feel terrorized.
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The link is https://icepi.cx/ but they are currently fighting a domain takedown.
https://ddosecrets.org/article/icepick upstream coverage
You can also download the dataset there.
This gave me schadenfreude... Is it bad to feel schadenfreude?
chat what is the German word for person who feels guilty for feeling schadenfreude
im sure it is a spectacular word
Good. Let them have a taste of their own medicine.
[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50286722)
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> exposing the names, phone numbers and addresses
> Ottignon, who has worked on similar data leak projects in the past, rejected suggestions that he and others connected to the Department of Peace or Distribution[sic] Denials of Secrets were doxing government employees.
Do words mean nothing anymore?
Dozens of the names, at least, correspond to J6 individuals.
The US has no actual national security at moment.
Unless you're a rich pedophile. Those guys are super safe.
National security is about whether there will still be a USA, not whether any specific person will still live.
... and gainfully employed!
ok
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The law does not always reflect ethics. It is a snapshot, sometimes old, of the ethics (or lack thereof) of a time and place. Crimes are laudible when the letter of the law misaligns with the ethics of the time, and then eventually laws catch up. If everyone always followed the law, nothing would ever improve.
I get the concept, but the question then is if it's ethical to release those names when most of DHS has nothing to do with ICE. The age old question of how much collateral damage is acceptable. It seems most of the praise being given casts DHS as being similar Nazis, but doesn’t consider who is actually involved or not.
From the article: "In a note attached to the files, the Department of Peace wrote, "They have our information, so it's only fair that we have theirs.""
Fighting in the US war of independence was a crime too, but those people are considered patriot heros.
Legality !== morality
Some seem to sincerely believe that renewed immigration law enforcement is morally evil.
I'm not sure why since it was enforced this way for decades before except for a few years recently. Now, I think that one can argue that ICE is overly aggressive, that it casts too wide a net, that too many mistakes are made, that it should focus on specific violations instead, etc. But these are arguments that can be made for any law enforcement agency, and have been for over 100 years in the USA. Sometimes, IMO, they were even justified.
That said, however, it also seems that many have latched onto ICE enforcement actions as a bell-weather pre-cursor to additional actions that will lead to a dystopian outcome. Or is in the process of doing so as we speak.
Thus, if one believes this to be true, then one can see why actions taken to fight/oppose/slow down the process can be viewed in a morally good light and something to be celebrated.
I was just watching a video the other day of ICE protestors blocking NYC bridge traffic. Tons of people coming out of their vehicles pleading with them to move so they could get to their job, drop their kid off, deliver a DoorDash order, etc.
I'm all for fighting against your enemies, even if I don't see it exactly the same way. But when I see stuff like that, it just seems totally disconnected from doing anything meaningful towards their enemies (besides making more of them, I guess).
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> Since when are crimes laudable?
I have faith that you understand the nuance of crimes sometimes being okay. For another example, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks