Comment by vrganj
3 hours ago
If they want to be open source, they also need to, y'know, open the source.
Weights are more like an executable binary. The source is the training data etc
3 hours ago
If they want to be open source, they also need to, y'know, open the source.
Weights are more like an executable binary. The source is the training data etc
I don't understand this demand. Isn't the training data likely petabytes in size? You want that to be available? I imagine just the index (name,date,source) is a terabyte or two.
As the training data is every written thing they can get their hands on, right?
And wouldn't making that "open source" violate every license that the original data has? You can't release someone else's work.
Unless I have a misunderstanding?
I absolutely want that to be available.
The only way to make sure that a model was trained without hiding weird biases and backdoors is to monitor this process. It also allows anybody (with the hardware resources) to experiment with the model and how it's trained. Will most people want to do that? No, but most people also don't want to recompile their own kernel, that doesn't negate the value of Linux being FOSS.
I hope that, in the long term, I'll be able to use competitive, completely open models in the same way that I can run Linux on my computer.
You're completely right that the licensing of the training data is a big issue though (and I would argue that it should be a much bigger issue right now, even for closed models). I hope that eventually our understanding of the tech will let us build competitive LLMs using purely public domain/Creative Commons-style training data.
I realize that we have a long way to go... but that's a very worthwhile goal IMO.
Even if they did that, you would have no way of verifying that the data they upload and the model they claim to have trained is the weights they have shared. It’s a nonsensical idea.
If you want a trusted public model, we need to start a foundation that does it. The Linux of AI.
You’re going to need some serious money though.
I don't usually compile my kernel from scratch, but I'm very glad that the source is open.
How else do you want to reproduce a model if you don't have the training data?
Just reproduce it? Copy the weights. What I think you want is the ability to improve it, to make what in copyright would be called a derivative work.
2 replies →
> And wouldn't making that "open source" violate every license that the original data has? You can't release someone else's work.
Tangent, and not the person you're replying to, but you just independently re-discovered why so many of us despise the AI companies.
Because that's what they are already doing. Selling a repackaged form of the stolen work of all of humanity, without credit or payment.
Can you evolve binary like you can post train weights?
You can read and edit binary code just fine, it's much easier with AI too
Do you have examples you can point to?
For example there are more than 100k modified weights on hugging face.
3 replies →
Indeed.
You can hardly re-create the binary from a suitable source, just like the weights just fell from the sky. But you can change the binary (patch the machine code) just like you can adjust the weights. The comparison is quite apt.
Yes?
The whole reverse engineering and cracking scene is built upon this premise, you know.
Calling it a "cracking scene" shows the different, though. Open weight models are intended to be used this way.
1 reply →
don't forget game modding. it's the only way it even works
5 replies →
Hence the difference between open weights and open source.
But this is neither.