While I agree, these are merely the exceptions. Sure, things can go great and well (after a long period of time). However, the following needs to be taken into account
1. The fatalities and economic losses
2. The high possibility that the power goes to the wrong hand.
3. The good possibility that the power doesn't change hands and we are stuck with even less freedom.
4. Revolutions make the country very vulnerable which is an opportunity for enemies.
Small and secure changes are better in my opinion. Revolutions have a high risk of going wrong.
If you asked me 3 years later, you'll get a different response. Having lived through this so-called Arab spring, I have now a very conservative view for revolution.
If you've got a really bad dictator, or an entrenched feudal system, then a revolution is probably worth it. If not, you'll probably end up with a dictator, and there's a chance they won't be so benevolent.
There's genuine problems with US Democracy. The lack of a good voting system (preferential, or better still - acceptance voting) means a stable two-party system.
Statistically, protest actions can be beneficial, as long as they don't go too far. No politician wants angry people on the streets. Media tends to cover it. It's a good way for a minority of people to have a huge impact (for better, or worse, depending on whether you support what the protesters want).
The problem is, a lot of protests are pretty much zero sum movements. They are things which half the people want, and half the people don't want (environmental protection, gun rights, gay marriage). A protest for something which would be popular, but most people don't really think about could be more useful.
Wasn't that the one that introduced Robespierre and the Reign of Terror, and then later another despot? Sure, Napoleon was talented and introduced the civil code, but it was still another example of the guy with the biggest stick making the rules.
They were uneducated people who went through a system that only valued rich and well connected people. What did you expect?
Take lessons from the past, and APPLY them to your context.
I'm not saying that rioting and killing Obama is the solution. I'm saying that using the government's tools (petitioning) against them is ridiculous. You have to show people you're angry, you have to show your entire country you're angry and you want things to change, laws to change, the system to change. You have to take a real stand.
EDIT : As I mentioned in some other comment. The revolution brought us Democracy, which later spread across all Europe, and brought us the beautiful Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen which is used everywhere in the world as standards (not always respected though). I believe the revolution was the most beautiful part of France history. Napoleon was our anger which was still resonating years after the Monarchy. We're calm people now.
In the short term, maybe. But in the long term, it was a catalyst that forced reforms (and further upheavals) across the whole continent; it was a large stick to carry at each negotiating table for freedoms, human rights and so on.
In the same way, the Russian Revolution eventually generated Stalinism and brought suffering to the Soviet block, but it was a tremendous inspiration (and often brought material help) to workers' rights movements in many other countries, de facto creating the "social Europe" we currently enjoy (or used to).
EDIT: it's also funny to see these comments on American websites. Hello, your country was built by an armed revolution that was as nationalistic in practice as it was universalistic in inspiration. As certain modern philosophers from the Five Boroughs used to say, "you gotta fight for your right to party" :)
I'd recommend reading Fatal Purity if you want to understand just how evil the French Revolution really was - even the architects became its victims in huge numbers. The terror is not something I would wish on any country, and it is no way comparable to the American revolution in scope or brutality, that and the Russian revolution are fascinating periods but great examples of why revolution often ends in disaster for the countries involved, and frequently ends in dictatorship.
The Russian revolution started relatively peacefully, moved on to a brutal civil war, and then to draconian dictatorship (under Lenin) in just a few short years, then in 21 the resulting wars and disastrous economic policy caused a famine that killed 6 million people before NEP was introduced. And that was well before Stalin began to terrorise the country. Again, I think you're romanticising events which were nasty, brutish, and mostly harmful in their effects.
I'd argue European socialism (the social Europe we currently enjoy) evolved more from the evolution of liberal democracy and liberal capitalism in a peaceful society than from Marxism - many of the things Marx & Engels criticised have been peacefully removed (child labour, alienation of workers from means of production, lack of unions etc). Granted the UK and other European nations have other problems, but let's not forget how far we came peacefully, and how much of a set back to civilisation war and revolution really are.
It could be argued that the French Revolution effectively ended its cycle in 1870 with the Third Republic, after two more upheavals (1830, 1848), two emperors and a few less powerful kings. The country ended up a lot better than it was at the beginning, and grew tremendously on almost all counts.
Also, it was one of the most interesting periods for arts and litterature ever to occur. Great example indeed
It also brought us Napoleon. And dictatorship. The guillotine. Many wars. More executions. The identification of the political right vs the political left. And on, and on, and on.
The world was certainly changed. Not always for the better.
While I agree, these are merely the exceptions. Sure, things can go great and well (after a long period of time). However, the following needs to be taken into account
1. The fatalities and economic losses
2. The high possibility that the power goes to the wrong hand.
3. The good possibility that the power doesn't change hands and we are stuck with even less freedom.
4. Revolutions make the country very vulnerable which is an opportunity for enemies.
Small and secure changes are better in my opinion. Revolutions have a high risk of going wrong.
If you asked me 3 years later, you'll get a different response. Having lived through this so-called Arab spring, I have now a very conservative view for revolution.
If you've got a really bad dictator, or an entrenched feudal system, then a revolution is probably worth it. If not, you'll probably end up with a dictator, and there's a chance they won't be so benevolent.
There's genuine problems with US Democracy. The lack of a good voting system (preferential, or better still - acceptance voting) means a stable two-party system.
Statistically, protest actions can be beneficial, as long as they don't go too far. No politician wants angry people on the streets. Media tends to cover it. It's a good way for a minority of people to have a huge impact (for better, or worse, depending on whether you support what the protesters want).
The problem is, a lot of protests are pretty much zero sum movements. They are things which half the people want, and half the people don't want (environmental protection, gun rights, gay marriage). A protest for something which would be popular, but most people don't really think about could be more useful.
Wasn't that the one that introduced Robespierre and the Reign of Terror, and then later another despot? Sure, Napoleon was talented and introduced the civil code, but it was still another example of the guy with the biggest stick making the rules.
They were uneducated people who went through a system that only valued rich and well connected people. What did you expect?
Take lessons from the past, and APPLY them to your context.
I'm not saying that rioting and killing Obama is the solution. I'm saying that using the government's tools (petitioning) against them is ridiculous. You have to show people you're angry, you have to show your entire country you're angry and you want things to change, laws to change, the system to change. You have to take a real stand.
EDIT : As I mentioned in some other comment. The revolution brought us Democracy, which later spread across all Europe, and brought us the beautiful Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen which is used everywhere in the world as standards (not always respected though). I believe the revolution was the most beautiful part of France history. Napoleon was our anger which was still resonating years after the Monarchy. We're calm people now.
You can take a stand without violence.
You can take a stand without destruction.
Hell, ask Snowden if he would rather have organized online action to protest, or people in the street beating other people...
In the short term, maybe. But in the long term, it was a catalyst that forced reforms (and further upheavals) across the whole continent; it was a large stick to carry at each negotiating table for freedoms, human rights and so on.
In the same way, the Russian Revolution eventually generated Stalinism and brought suffering to the Soviet block, but it was a tremendous inspiration (and often brought material help) to workers' rights movements in many other countries, de facto creating the "social Europe" we currently enjoy (or used to).
EDIT: it's also funny to see these comments on American websites. Hello, your country was built by an armed revolution that was as nationalistic in practice as it was universalistic in inspiration. As certain modern philosophers from the Five Boroughs used to say, "you gotta fight for your right to party" :)
I'd recommend reading Fatal Purity if you want to understand just how evil the French Revolution really was - even the architects became its victims in huge numbers. The terror is not something I would wish on any country, and it is no way comparable to the American revolution in scope or brutality, that and the Russian revolution are fascinating periods but great examples of why revolution often ends in disaster for the countries involved, and frequently ends in dictatorship.
The Russian revolution started relatively peacefully, moved on to a brutal civil war, and then to draconian dictatorship (under Lenin) in just a few short years, then in 21 the resulting wars and disastrous economic policy caused a famine that killed 6 million people before NEP was introduced. And that was well before Stalin began to terrorise the country. Again, I think you're romanticising events which were nasty, brutish, and mostly harmful in their effects.
I'd argue European socialism (the social Europe we currently enjoy) evolved more from the evolution of liberal democracy and liberal capitalism in a peaceful society than from Marxism - many of the things Marx & Engels criticised have been peacefully removed (child labour, alienation of workers from means of production, lack of unions etc). Granted the UK and other European nations have other problems, but let's not forget how far we came peacefully, and how much of a set back to civilisation war and revolution really are.
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And a few years later they made Napoleon an emperor and he went on a spree of military conquest across the whole of Europe. Great example.
It could be argued that the French Revolution effectively ended its cycle in 1870 with the Third Republic, after two more upheavals (1830, 1848), two emperors and a few less powerful kings. The country ended up a lot better than it was at the beginning, and grew tremendously on almost all counts.
Also, it was one of the most interesting periods for arts and litterature ever to occur. Great example indeed
After a brief period of show trials and bloodletting.
That made change.
Not necessarily the DESIRED change, but it certainly changed things!
That brought Democracy. Which is closer to what people wanted at that time : A country ruled by the people.
Let's not forget that it brought us something even more beautiful : The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Rights_of_Ma...
It also brought us Napoleon. And dictatorship. The guillotine. Many wars. More executions. The identification of the political right vs the political left. And on, and on, and on.
The world was certainly changed. Not always for the better.
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