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Comment by SideburnsOfDoom

12 years ago

> Do you really believe that this is the modus operandi only of the United States?

Your fallacy is: Tu quoque http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

11 comments

SideburnsOfDoom

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SeanLuke  12 years ago

Tu quoque is basically the "but everyone does it" argument. I agree that'd be specious -- but I'm not saying that. Rather, I'm the poster's claims ("arrogant, self-righteous, disrespectful, ignorant, mendacious") -- particularly "arrogant" -- imply that he thought the US was doing something unique that other countries are above, and thus the US was deserving of special disdain. This implication is simply wrong. But he's building his whole argument on it.

  • SideburnsOfDoom  12 years ago

    > imply that he thought the US was doing something unique

    But the US is doing something unique. No other country has the global reach and the sheer military budget that the US has. It's debatable that other countries are "above" it in moral terms, but the US certainly has taken it to a whole new level.

    Edit: I also don't see where "But he's building his whole argument on ... US was deserving of special disdain". Despite the larger scope of the US's transgressions, you are saying "but they do it too". I think that the Tu Quoque fallacy absolutely applies. Nowhere is it said that other countries would not be worthy of equal disdain under equal circumstances. And if it were to be said, it would be wrong.

    • dragonwriter  12 years ago

      > It's debatable that other countries are "above" it in moral terms

      It's really not, since many of the releases of information about what the US is doing -- including the current one -- have other countries also neck deep in it. I mean, the actual spying in the article that this comment thread is attached to is done by the UK's GCHQ, NSA is just a consumer of the data.

      6 replies →

  • PeterisP  12 years ago

    Countries like Russia and China and Syria and Iran claim that they're spying on whatever they can and control their citizens online expression because (a) they say they need it / national security, (b) they are allowed to do it / sovereignity.

    On the other hand, USA had earlier openly claimed in essence something like 'why we'd never, we don't spy on americans (Clapper), we don't record all communications, we're for the open net and transparency, we need to safeguard the internet from China and censorship, and we have 4th/1st amendment, so we're different'.

    Everybody else who did that, didn't do it while hypocritically claiming that they're different - so I believe that US really did something unique in this particular instance and deserves special extra disdain for that.

    The position of others is that doing all those things is okay, so they do it without moral problems. However, USA had claimed (and apparently still claims, at least for US-citizens) that it's not okay.... and do it anyway.