Comment by jordigh
12 years ago
I find it a bit... sad? disturbing? that the only reason women were so involved in computing and programming in the early years was because programming and software were seen as less important jobs than the "software planner" jobs, where the "coder" was just a flunkie, something of a software custodian. They were considered clerical jobs, like data entry or a secretary.
This old article (2009) has a lot more details on this old sociological phenemonon:
http://homes.soic.indiana.edu/nensmeng/files/ensmenger-gende...
The author has a whole blog about this topic:
I started programming before I was a teenager, in part because my mother was a programmer. At that time, 30+ years ago, women were not programmers because it was "less important". You didn't see men taking programming jobs as a "Consolidation" for some better career.
My first two programming teachers- in college and in high school- were both women who were also professional programmers at previous jobs.
It was a prestigeous job, as the computer was seen to clearly be the herald of a new age. The personal computer revolution was really significant. It was a job for smart, mathematically inclined people.
I think programming is seen as a lower status job now than it was then. Now programmers are subservient to ignorant business people (When the reality is, its much easier for use to learn business than them to program.)
I think in the past women were more likely to be programmers because the profession didn't have a gender stigma. Because men were more likely to have picked out a profession, and women who entered college without a specific degree plan were more likely to pick this one up.
And frankly, I've never seen a problem with women programmers. I've worked with women programmers at every job where there were more than 10 programmers, and they haven't been seen as deserving, or treated with less respect... this goes back to the 1980s.
I would like you to back up your assertion that the "only reason" they were involved was low status. That paper you linked to is fallacious beyond belief. You may disagree with my anecdotes below, but he's merely giving us his spin on an article. (So he's not only anecdotal, but derivative.)
> 30+ years ago
That's barely in the 1980's or late 1970's, well after the events being described in the articles I mentioned.
Can you contest that Von Neumann considered programming a clerical job?
> That paper you linked to is fallacious beyond belief.
Well, I suppose I would have to read his citations too, to check if they were all lies as well.
If you're going to make a list of people that John von Neumann looked down on, it's going to be rather longer than just women (try anyone who wasn't as smart as he was, which is just about everyone).
Brilliant scientist. World-class ego.
i wish i worked in the places you worked. the ignorance in the places i have worked is utterly gobsmacking.
Definitely sad, but I'd say the disturbing part is how fast they got disappeared once software development became "a real job".
>because programming and software were seen as less important jobs than the "software planner" jobs,
It's not like STEM software today like the codebase of ATLAS for example, is give much praise in the public eye. It's simply overshadowed by the larger more ambitious project that it was part of. This was the case back then as well.