I work for CLEAR UK (clear-uk.org), a non-profit campaigning for the legalization of medicinal cannabis in the UK. When we put this article on our news feed, we got a comment from a beekeeper --
"Well, cannabis is wind pollinated, as you probably know. This means it does not produce anything attractive to pollinators. This is especially true with the cannabis plant, as the flowers do not produce a nectar of any kind. This 'beekeeper' is spraying sugar water on the buds to get the bees to work them. His theory is that the trichomes that are inadvertently picked up are going to be stored in the propolis, that he smokes, and also in the honey.
The problem with the honey is that the trichomes would not be decarboxylated, thus not converting the thc-a into thc, thus having no psychoactive effect. It would be like eating raw weed...you would need to eat a ton, and the effects would be minimal, depending on the strain. Most strains have virtually no thc readily available.
The problem with smoking propolis is enormous, especially if you know what it is. It is basically sap from pine trees and such that the bees masticate and turn into a type of caulking for their hives. While it does have some serious antimicrobial properties, the amount of thc in the propolis would be minimal and you would be mostly smoking pine sap...surely, you can see the issue.
While male plants do produce a pollen, it is of low quality to a bee and definitely does not contain any cannabinoids.
My husband has been in direct contact with Nicolas trainerbee. He admits that he sprays the buds with sugar to film the bees working it...so, not only is he ruining a perfectly good harvest of cannabis, he is spreading disinformation to the beekeeping and cannabis communities."
"Training" bees, indeed.... As others have pointed out, the logic of this actually accomplishing anything is likely nil. If you read the article closely, you'll see it actually has very little content - it reads well, but it's more marketing fluff than anything. I don't want to write an essay here, so I won't explain further, but read it closely.
Unfortunately, the implication of THC-infused honey is going to drive the 'cannabis cures cancer' contingent mad (with desire) and Mr. Trainerbee is going to make some serious money... THC-infused Golden Manuka Honey! I really loathe all the @$%^^ going on in the cannabis related markets, but that is the essence or nature of capitalism...
I don't think it's a cannabis related issue, people have been buying 'natural healing' type of stuff for thousands of years without any regard for the science behind it.
Let's not forget what that the majority of that ton would be: sugar. Both addictive and extremely dangerous in large quantities, thereby negating all the hypothetical benefits on using cannabis for pain management in the first place.
Cannabis doesn't produce nectar, so bees won't be attracted to it. They might be interested in resin, so as to make propolis... but I doubt any cannaboids would turn up in the honey.
Disclaimer: I don't keep bees, but I've been looking into it. Someone with more experience might know more, listen to them. It'd be cool if this worked.
Yes you should be skeptical. Even if there were any scintilla of truth to this cannabinoids have no effect on humans until they are decarboxylated so this would have no effect if eaten anyway.
well the article mention "hundreds of health benefits" for honey, which the science, even the pseudo science, agree there is none. it's just a fancier sugar. so yes, you're certainly right.
This image shows a comb with pollen in the bottom left, uncapped honey/nectar in the central area. This uncapped nectar has too much water in it still and will ferment, and capped honey in the top right section. This capped area is true honey that has been dehydrated enough to not ferment and spoil.
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/honeycomb-fresh-honey-pollen-...
They distribute pollen via mechanical side-effects (on their legs and bodies), but that is not their goal. That effect is the plant's goal, which is why it produces nectar - to lure them.
In nature, the male cannabis flower's pollen is carried by wind and gets stuck on the female's sticky resin. Cannabis is wind pollinated, so the beekeeper had to have trained these bees to ingest cannabis pollen (couldn't have been too hard, i'm sure most enjoy a good 'buzz').
I'd be very curious about the luxury cannabis honey industry. You can already buy honey made from wild flower or specific flowers like blueberry or other exotic flowers. I wonder if in a few years we will be able to buy honey made from specific cannabis strains. Given that honey is absorbed very readily into the body, using specific strains of cannabis honey may have real medicinal value, for fast action pain relief for instance.
Disclaimer: Not a medical professional, or a bee professional, nor a cannabis professional.
My thought was since honey is absorbed quickly perhaps the medicinal effects could be fast acting. As opposed to with edibles which would take longer to produce an effect. Of course, inhaling it via smoke or vaporizer would be instant action, but many medicinal users would prefer to avoid inhalants like smoking. The benefit of instant action would be for people that have seizures or spasms, or need quick pain relief. Again, not a medical professional, just thinking out loud.
Please see my comment - I'm sure there is some way to infuse honey with THC or CBD, but I haven't heard of anything. And the cannabis related market hardly needs any more overhyped overpriced products... CBD is useful, but a lot of products are garbage. This article is all blather and little actual facts.
I would expect the raw cannabis honey to have almost no THC, because it hasn't gone through decarboxylation. Raw cannabis has THCA but very little THC. Heating it releases the carboxyl group (COOH) and turns the THCA into THC.
This happens naturally when cannabis is smoked or vaporized or made into a cooked edible. Eating raw cannabis won't get you very high.
It looks like something similar happens with CBDA turning into CBD. The cannabis strain they used in the tests didn't have much CBD[A] in it to begin with; it would be interesting to see what happens with a CBD-rich strain. Does anyone happen to know more about this?
Someone who knows more than me (OldSchoolJohnny?) could answer this better, but I think the pasteurization temperature for honey is too low. The references I've seen indicate a temperature of 145-150° F for honey, and more like 230-240° F for carboxylation.
I know a lot about this and you are correct there would be no effect even if this honey actually had any resin in it which I'm extremely skeptical of for many different reasons.
It's not talking about THCA (2-COOH-THC) which is what raw cannabis contains - eating it won't do anything unless you decarboxylate first. But yes, if (after the decarb) you bind it to a fat substrate (e.g. butter, oil etc) then you'll metabolize it.
I am highly sceptical of his claim of "training" bees. He may make the plants and resin available and bees will tend to go for the closest convenient source, but much beyond that, I don't really believe.
I am happy to be proved wrong of course, as it would be kind of awesome to have a set of trained bees doing one's bidding!
Now I'm imagining a CG cartoon film about stoned bees starring Andy Samberg or somebody.
"Dude, like, why do we gotta serve the queen anyway? Don't you get it man? She's part of the system -- the system that oppresses us. Whoa, this is good shit."
I can see see some good marketing opportunities for this. I would call it Honey Pot.
Amusingly, there is already a popular cannabis-infused honey for sale in California under the brand name 'Honey Pot'.
Yeah, I know about THC honey, so what's the difference between this and that; how is that made differently from above?
2 replies →
Might be time to start investing in Waffle House, IHOP, Cracker Barrel, etc.
I work for CLEAR UK (clear-uk.org), a non-profit campaigning for the legalization of medicinal cannabis in the UK. When we put this article on our news feed, we got a comment from a beekeeper --
"Well, cannabis is wind pollinated, as you probably know. This means it does not produce anything attractive to pollinators. This is especially true with the cannabis plant, as the flowers do not produce a nectar of any kind. This 'beekeeper' is spraying sugar water on the buds to get the bees to work them. His theory is that the trichomes that are inadvertently picked up are going to be stored in the propolis, that he smokes, and also in the honey. The problem with the honey is that the trichomes would not be decarboxylated, thus not converting the thc-a into thc, thus having no psychoactive effect. It would be like eating raw weed...you would need to eat a ton, and the effects would be minimal, depending on the strain. Most strains have virtually no thc readily available.
The problem with smoking propolis is enormous, especially if you know what it is. It is basically sap from pine trees and such that the bees masticate and turn into a type of caulking for their hives. While it does have some serious antimicrobial properties, the amount of thc in the propolis would be minimal and you would be mostly smoking pine sap...surely, you can see the issue.
While male plants do produce a pollen, it is of low quality to a bee and definitely does not contain any cannabinoids.
My husband has been in direct contact with Nicolas trainerbee. He admits that he sprays the buds with sugar to film the bees working it...so, not only is he ruining a perfectly good harvest of cannabis, he is spreading disinformation to the beekeeping and cannabis communities."
"Training" bees, indeed.... As others have pointed out, the logic of this actually accomplishing anything is likely nil. If you read the article closely, you'll see it actually has very little content - it reads well, but it's more marketing fluff than anything. I don't want to write an essay here, so I won't explain further, but read it closely.
Unfortunately, the implication of THC-infused honey is going to drive the 'cannabis cures cancer' contingent mad (with desire) and Mr. Trainerbee is going to make some serious money... THC-infused Golden Manuka Honey! I really loathe all the @$%^^ going on in the cannabis related markets, but that is the essence or nature of capitalism...
I don't think it's a cannabis related issue, people have been buying 'natural healing' type of stuff for thousands of years without any regard for the science behind it.
Nice work, thank you for posting the info which is entirely as I suspected from personal experience my BS meter was off the charts with this story.
> you would need to eat a ton
Let's not forget what that the majority of that ton would be: sugar. Both addictive and extremely dangerous in large quantities, thereby negating all the hypothetical benefits on using cannabis for pain management in the first place.
I'm... skeptical.
Cannabis doesn't produce nectar, so bees won't be attracted to it. They might be interested in resin, so as to make propolis... but I doubt any cannaboids would turn up in the honey.
Disclaimer: I don't keep bees, but I've been looking into it. Someone with more experience might know more, listen to them. It'd be cool if this worked.
I kept bees for almost a year now. They may go for the pollen and resin like you said, and miss out on the nectar.
Yes you should be skeptical. Even if there were any scintilla of truth to this cannabinoids have no effect on humans until they are decarboxylated so this would have no effect if eaten anyway.
And yet, I guarantee you it will be shrink-wrapped and mythologized by the health industry anyway.
well the article mention "hundreds of health benefits" for honey, which the science, even the pseudo science, agree there is none. it's just a fancier sugar. so yes, you're certainly right.
Bees collect pollen, not nectar.
This was answered a lot already, but I'll go into a little more detail. They eat both.
Pollen = Protein
Nectar/Honey = Carbohydrates
Just like most other living animals they need both to survive.
Honeycomb holding Pollen -- the multicolored cells are pollen, actually something called "bee bread" if you need a keyword to read more about it. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/c2/65/36/c26536d91...
This image shows a comb with pollen in the bottom left, uncapped honey/nectar in the central area. This uncapped nectar has too much water in it still and will ferment, and capped honey in the top right section. This capped area is true honey that has been dehydrated enough to not ferment and spoil. http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/honeycomb-fresh-honey-pollen-...
They distribute pollen via mechanical side-effects (on their legs and bodies), but that is not their goal. That effect is the plant's goal, which is why it produces nectar - to lure them.
It's the original Sharing Economy.
4 replies →
They collect both, from here[0]:
"First bees have four main items on the collection list: nectar, pollen, saps / waxes, and water"
[0] - https://www.quora.com/Can-honey-bees-collect-nectar-at-the-s...
All bees collect nectar. Some bees collect pollen - although all bees need it.
Bees collect both and eat both.
bees turn nectar into honey
In nature, the male cannabis flower's pollen is carried by wind and gets stuck on the female's sticky resin. Cannabis is wind pollinated, so the beekeeper had to have trained these bees to ingest cannabis pollen (couldn't have been too hard, i'm sure most enjoy a good 'buzz').
I'd be very curious about the luxury cannabis honey industry. You can already buy honey made from wild flower or specific flowers like blueberry or other exotic flowers. I wonder if in a few years we will be able to buy honey made from specific cannabis strains. Given that honey is absorbed very readily into the body, using specific strains of cannabis honey may have real medicinal value, for fast action pain relief for instance.
Disclaimer: Not a medical professional, or a bee professional, nor a cannabis professional.
I don't see the added medicinal value of cannabis honey, relative to existing forms of cannabis.
My thought was since honey is absorbed quickly perhaps the medicinal effects could be fast acting. As opposed to with edibles which would take longer to produce an effect. Of course, inhaling it via smoke or vaporizer would be instant action, but many medicinal users would prefer to avoid inhalants like smoking. The benefit of instant action would be for people that have seizures or spasms, or need quick pain relief. Again, not a medical professional, just thinking out loud.
You're comparing types of cannabis, but you should be comparing types of honey.
Some honey has already been medicalised - Manuka honey is used in burns dressings for example.
There's a bunch of adulteration and poor quality product in honey, so these niches are useful for people creating a higher quality product.
Please see my comment - I'm sure there is some way to infuse honey with THC or CBD, but I haven't heard of anything. And the cannabis related market hardly needs any more overhyped overpriced products... CBD is useful, but a lot of products are garbage. This article is all blather and little actual facts.
> “The bees that produce the cannahoney are not affected by cannabinoids because they do not have an endocannabinoid system”, he explains.
just an fyi, because apparently I'm that one guy who screws up everyone's puns
I would expect the raw cannabis honey to have almost no THC, because it hasn't gone through decarboxylation. Raw cannabis has THCA but very little THC. Heating it releases the carboxyl group (COOH) and turns the THCA into THC.
This happens naturally when cannabis is smoked or vaporized or made into a cooked edible. Eating raw cannabis won't get you very high.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cannabis+decarboxylation
This page has some interesting test results:
http://www.marijuanagrowershq.com/decarboxylating-cannabis-t...
It looks like something similar happens with CBDA turning into CBD. The cannabis strain they used in the tests didn't have much CBD[A] in it to begin with; it would be interesting to see what happens with a CBD-rich strain. Does anyone happen to know more about this?
So the heat from the pasteurization of this honey could theoretically activate the THC?
Someone who knows more than me (OldSchoolJohnny?) could answer this better, but I think the pasteurization temperature for honey is too low. The references I've seen indicate a temperature of 145-150° F for honey, and more like 230-240° F for carboxylation.
I know a lot about this and you are correct there would be no effect even if this honey actually had any resin in it which I'm extremely skeptical of for many different reasons.
The body can certainly metabolize raw THC, especially when consumed with a fat substrate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11-nor-9-Carboxy-THC
It's not talking about THCA (2-COOH-THC) which is what raw cannabis contains - eating it won't do anything unless you decarboxylate first. But yes, if (after the decarb) you bind it to a fat substrate (e.g. butter, oil etc) then you'll metabolize it.
I am highly sceptical of his claim of "training" bees. He may make the plants and resin available and bees will tend to go for the closest convenient source, but much beyond that, I don't really believe.
I am happy to be proved wrong of course, as it would be kind of awesome to have a set of trained bees doing one's bidding!
The word "trained" does seem dubious as if the bees were taught to obey commands!
More likely the bees were "persuaded" to use cannabis by either proximity of the plants and/or treating the plants in some way to attract the bees.
D.A.R.E.
Do the bees get high too?
No - “The bees that produce the cannahoney are not affected by cannabinoids because they do not have an endocannabinoid system”
I say, braking bad award of the year for Mrs Nicholas and his bees.
Now I'm imagining a CG cartoon film about stoned bees starring Andy Samberg or somebody.
"Dude, like, why do we gotta serve the queen anyway? Don't you get it man? She's part of the system -- the system that oppresses us. Whoa, this is good shit."
Sounds tiresome.