Comment by lathiat
8 years ago
This is actually fantastic, I am really happy about this.
Two main reasons (1) If you disable Wi-Fi its re-enabled when you goto a new location. Very often I disable wifi to temporarily get off a bad network in an area, and then curse when I get home and stream a 1GB video over 3G
(2) Much more user friendly for initiated actions
(3) You can still fully disable it by going into settings, but the quick-off is more like you expect.
Great work, Apple.
> This is actually fantastic, I am really happy about this.
This is not fantastic, my phone is lying to me. I was wondering what the bug was because I turned off Bluetooth and it kept turning back on every damn time I got near my car. I want it on when I want it on and not anytime else.
Icons and OSes that lie to user make it tougher to understand what's going on. I expect the control center to tell the truth and do what I want. There is no indication that the settings and control center are different. This is a user hostile decision.
Cruddy work, Apple... now I get to answer questions about this psychotic crud.
> my phone is lying to me.
If you force touch the UI, it does say "Not Connected" when you hit the button, not "Disabled."
I can understand the confusion, because they have re-used an old UI element for a new purpose, but there's no reason the button should mean "Disable Radio" rather than "Disconnect." And as cptide mentions, the button now has three states: blue for connected, grey for disconnected, grey with a line through for disabled. Once you know this, I think it makes a lot of sense.
If you want the old behavior, it's still there in settings, where the on-off toggle will turn off the radio itself.
Personally, I much prefer the new system (I far more often just want to disconnect from the current network/devices than disable it entirely), and think the new control center is much improved over the old one.
Problem being not all iOS 11 users have force touch-enabled devices. I have the iPhone 6, for example, so all I have to go on is the Control Center button icons which are misleading. Apple really should have either mentioned this change in the Tips app or not enabled it by default but instead given users an option.
Additionally, it should be noted that leaving Bluetooth always on just add another attack surface to my phone and consumes unnecessary energy since I don’t own any Bluetooth accessories. Really wondering what the heck Apple was thinking here not making this a setting and enabling it by default.
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They could have used 3d touch. That would have made a lot of sense, I agree.
> If you want the old behavior, it's still there in settings, where the on-off toggle will turn off the radio itself.
Could a setting to revert the behavior not have been provided? Instead of forcing an entirely new behavior on existing users? Now I'm trying to figure out how to ensure my phone doesn't auto update to 11.
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When you enable airplane mode, you can actually see WiFi and Bluetooth crossed out as opposed to grayed out. So there is a difference in UI, but I agree - this is not intuitive to the user.
> Icons and OSes that lie to user make it tougher to understand what's going on.
Isn't the Apple approach that you just don't have to understand because the OS and their inventors know what's good for you? The main argument I hear from Apple users is that they don't have to care about anything and it works.
If you would really want to understand your mobiles OS, you would surely look towards other OSes.
The issue isn’t understanding the OS. The issue is a misleading and/or poorly designed UI.
>you would surely look towards other OSes.
I know i will
> (3) You can still fully disable it by going into settings, but the quick-off is more like you expect.
For me, I expect off to be off. What annoys me about this change is that the on\off behaviour is now asymmetric. If I turn off Wi-Fi in Settings, I can turn it back on via Control Centre but I now can't turn it off via Control Centre.
My preference is always to leave Wi-Fi off, turn it on when I want to use it, and then turn it off when I'm finished. This change makes doing that slower and clumsier.
>My preference is always to leave Wi-Fi off, turn it on when I want to use it, and then turn it off when I'm finished. This change makes doing that slower and clumsier.
It's exactly this micro-management that they try to obliterate, similar to this:
https://www.wired.com/2016/03/closing-apps-save-battery-make...
Reminds me of this: https://xkcd.com/1172/
I think for the majority of users this is a really insightful change that addresses one of the biggest use cases the switch had (temporarily disable WiFi to get away from a bad connection) and one of the biggest issues it had for that use case (it was easy to turn it off and waste large amounts of relatively expensive wireless data)
>My preference is always to leave Wi-Fi off, turn it on when I want to use it, and then turn it off when I'm finished. This change makes doing that slower and clumsier.
Right!
But the good Apple developers believe that this way your experience will be somehow inferior:
From the article: >For the best experience on your iOS device, try to keep Wi-Fi and Bluetooth turned on.
Wifi being off definitely reduces the performance of Location services.
In my parking garage the car charger needs to be activated via an app, and it needs to detect your location as within 100ft of the charger. Without WiFi, my location accuracy shows up as almost +-1 mile and I can't turn it on. As soon as I turn on WiFi it instantly snaps to exit of the garage (probably from correlating detecting apartment wifi hotspots along with my car's hotspot and my location as I leave the garage)
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It's not fantastic for me. I'd like to off wifi from the control screen.
iOS can be configured to automatically switch to LTE if it detects you’re on a low quality wifi connection. No need to turn off wifi for that.
I think iOS needs to be a lot more aggressive with this, in both directions (switching because of poor LTE and because of poor WiFi). If it were better, I don't think I'd never actually need to touch the WiFi toggle.
The problem here is that a lot of people are on limited data plans. So if wifi is poor in one corner of my home, I dont want to accidentally chew up half my monthly data allowance.
This absolutely happened to me once, at work.
Which was really funny, because I was downloading craploads of music specifically before I left the office so I wouldn't chew up my mobile data cap.
I didn't know the "switch to 4G if the wifi is bad" option even existed, much less was enabled.
Where is this setting? I remember it being on an old beta (7/8) but I thought it was removed?
Edit: Found it. "Wi-Fi Assist" in Settings > Cellular / Mobile Data > Scroll past all the apps > "Wi-Fi Assist"
iOS won't detect when I'm on a good WiFi connection but its ADSL link has decent ping yet is much much slower (10Mbps/0.6Mbps) than what I would get with LTE (40~80Mbps both ways) at the same location. I'm on a 100GB plan so I could care less about data use, and I have FTTH (300Mbps/100Mbps+sub-10ms ping) at home so I want WiFi there but always forget to toggle it back on. This UI solves it for me, although I wished the 3D Touch UI would allow quick access to the third, disabled state.
Unfortunately this isn't a good option. My Pixel XL on Project fi is supposed to do this. It never does it when it should. Never. I have yet to see a phone handle the tradeoff well.
I am glad we found the guy!
When I read comments like yours, I get excited to read the n-gate.com coverage of the article. I can see it now:
>a hackernews decides to congratulate apple for being duplicitous
I make it forget bad networks so it wont connect to them by default your workflow is poor.
Sometimes the bad network is my network, for example when I’m standing in my driveway. It’s still close enough to pick up my wifi but it doesn’t actually load anything. Or my office Wi-Fi once I get down to the lobby, but before I leave the building. Good for you if this never happens, but it’s a real problem.
I agree that is a problem. But why do we accept that human intervention (control center => disable WiFi) is the correct step to resolve the standing-on-your-driveway problem. Should iOS11 just figure out how to automatically disconnect from WiFi signals that aren’t actually supporting data throughput?
Why are you accepting that there can be a concept of “picking up WiFi” but at the same time “doesn’t load anything”? That state is fundamentally flawed and shouldn’t even exist.
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You can tell iOS to not connect automatically to a known network by disabling auto-join for that SSID. I do this so that it doesn't connect to "Free WiFi Secure", which can not be forgotten since it comes from my mobile operator's SIM (authenticates with EAP-SIM).
your post needs some punctuations
You actually forgot to capitalize "your" after the period but mentioning it isn't terribly useful because the intent is clear. This is also true of my original post.
Posts consisting solely of grammar advice where there was no chance of miscommunication aren't helpful and just adds noise. It appears as if the intent is to project ones own superiority instead of educating.
When I turn off WiFi, I expect it to remain off and not just decide to turn back on whenever I find a new network.
Any other behavior is dark UX.
Ignoring the security implications, it has implications on battery life.
That button is no longer for turning it off. They've changed the meaning of the button.
I get that if you're used to the previous meaning it could be annoying, but it's not like it's actually saying one thing and doing another.
>They've changed the meaning of the button.
It's also not the same button technically: they've redesigned the whole panel.
Problem is that they never informed users that they’d changed this behavior. That button no longer does what it’s always done, which violates the Principle if Least Surprise: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_astonishm....
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Oh yes, it is a much better experience now that I have to swipe six times to reach the settings and turn off WiFi, then do the same to turn it back on.
So i guess you liked Microsoft Clippy too?
Instead of fixing the UI to make you empowered, it will decide what is better for you? great!
Sarcasm aside, I hated this feature until I used it a few weeks, but now I'm a fan. I would argue that this UI is empowering users, in the sense that it allows them to do something that they couldn't before (in contrast to Clippy, who usually suggested things you already knew how to do).
For example, on a daily basis, I usually spend my time in one of 4 places: - A location with good WiFi and good LTE reception (expectation: all services on) - A location with bad WiFi and good LTE reception (expectation: WiFi off) - A location with excellent WiFi and atrocious LTE reception (expectation: cellular off) - A location with bad WiFi and zero LTE reception (expectation: all off)
Previously, I had to manually toggle WiFi, cellular, or airplane mode on or off in these various locations, nearly always forgetting to change it again later. This is mainly a problem with turning things off - if I'm in airplane mode, I might not notice that I'm incommunicado for an hour or more if I'm engrossed in a task, whereas leaving everything on when I'm in the metaphorical dungeon will only cost me a few % of battery, at most.
However, by defaulting services to on after I move locations, my phone reverts to a communication device at the expense of a marginal amount of battery life. Think of it as a 4-square: 1) services on, actively using; 2) services off, actively using; 3) services on, not using; 4) services off, not using.
In cases 1 & 2, I'm actively using it and I don't care what it does as long as it functions (i.e. I can manually disconnect from shitty WiFi myself, so data will load again). In case 3, I lose some battery life for my inattention, but no big deal - I can still easily make it all day on a charge. In case 4, I'm SOL until I remember to turn them on again.
This behavioral change in iOS 11 moves some of my time from case 4 to case 3, which is a tradeoff I am willing to make.
I hope this helps to illustrate the alternative perspective to yours a bit more clearly.
> A location with bad WiFi and good LTE reception (expectation: WiFi off)
Why are you not insisting that the OS simply disconnect on its own quickly in such scenarios? Why do you accept that manual user action is the right solution? If the phone automatically and quickly dropped a WiFi the instant it doesn’t support data, this problem wouldn’t exist. Instead Apple expects users to get involved in that problem and has now overcomplicated what should be a very simple switch.
>no big deal
Its a UI anti-pattern, because they're changing the definition of off from 'its off, end of topic' to 'well, its not really off, only disconnected, and you can not really tell what is what' ..
So, no big deal. Until you get hacked over wifi when you thought it was off all the time ... or your battery discharges 20% faster than you thought it should, etc.
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>it will decide what is better for you?
Regardless of this particular implementation, isn't that the whole point of computing? To get the software to be smarter and decide what's better -- all the way to AI assistants.
Bonzi Buddy was even better, it's the original "clippy that doesn't go away"
It's amazing how much functionality Bonzi Buddy had on a 486 that we apparently need cloud super-computing (google now, amazon echo, siri, etc) for now.
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