Comment by dsacco
9 years ago
Something I’m curious about regarding Mr. Money Mustache - is he actually retired, in the sense that he doesn’t do anything to bring in income (except through passive index investing)?
It seems like he has a brand that is pretty lucrative, so it’s unclear to me if he:
1. has enough money to be functionally retired at his current lifestyle, but chooses to continue his brand anyway,
2. has enough money to be functionally retired, but not at his current lifestyle, and so chooses to continue his brand,
3. cannot functionally retire and simply “transitioned” from professional software development to professional blogging.
I follow the logic of his blog series (reduce spending dramatically, increase savings dramatically, invest optimally), but I can’t tell how much of it contributes to his current lifestyle.
One of the things that made me stop reading him was when it became clear his "I'm totally retired and you can be too!" thing was BS. At the time he had like 3 part-time jobs (the blog, landlord, handyman, IIRC), with his savings being large enough that he could make a stupid "hey, you should stop paying so much for health insurance you idiots! Turns our if you have a lot of money in the bank and the skills to land a job with family coverage in a matter of months if you need to, you only need catastrophic coverage! I don't know why people say buying your own health insurance is expensive, it's not!" post, but not enough to totally retire on it (he seemed to be letting his investments grow by spending mostly his part-time job money, at the time, rather than investment returns)
Exactly. Seems totally stupid. Like why is it better to have 3 jobs ( blog, handyman, landlord ) than one normal job ? to me retired is a person who specifically lives strictly off the money they have. I mean sure, if you prefer to work as a handyman or run a successful blog, by all means do that, but calling yourself retired seems inaccurate. I am retired but I have 3 jobs. ooook.
Ha. The MMM community calls people espousing this sort of view "the retirement police". I have no idea what this complaint intends to accomplish beyond adherence to some kind of radical linguistic prescriptivism.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-...
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He had more than enough money in the bank to do nothing given his expenditures. Turns out he likes making money on his own time.
Here's a New Yorker article about him: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/02/29/mr-money-musta...
I believe he has some rental income from properties he owns and he claims to only spend $25K or so per year, so the answer is probably closest to 1. His brand/blog does seem to be quite lucrative though. At this point, it would probably make more sense to limit the effort rather than shut anything down.
There should probably be another word for it? I'm financially secure and will be for the rest of my life. But, I still generate an income, mostly by ownership but I still do physical labor. I do quite a bit of my own labor, as well. I can easily pay someone to do it for me, but I like it.
I just helped harvest the blueberries. Next, I'll be filling my own freezers during hunting season and I'll be guiding others to help fill their freezers. I harvest and process the animals on the neighboring farm, more so if I'm to be purchasing the results. I cut down trees for my own firewood, but I've helped the crew that harvests for commercial reasons. I own a share in a few franchises, and it is not unknown for me to come help on snowy days or even just to help clean up at close. I not only plow my own snow, but I plow it for other people, I'll even shovel for them.
Some of this makes me money, some of it costs me money.
I'm not sure retired is the right word? I don't have to do it, but I like keeping busy. Surely, there could be a better word than 'retired?'
I don't know. "Financially independent" strikes me more along the lines of being able to walk out the door tomorrow and only doing a job because I want to. Not because I need the money.
I think "retired" is OK. A lot (most?) retired people who are healthy do something whether it's just some DIY around the house or volunteering. Of course, these days there are opportunities to pick up some dollars through various gig economy things though I would definitely have to need the money.
The lines are more blurred than they used to be though. I've known quite a few consultants who basically wound things down over time--not actively pursuing work as much but happy to spend some time and cash some checks with existing clients.
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Financially independent is the phrase I'd use. Enough money so you don't 'have' to work to survive
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He 'retired' (as in, didn't have a job but spend most of his time DIY'ing so he didn't need money - not quite my definition of 'retire' but let's not beat that dead horse any more) years before the blog, but now brings in 6 figures (maybe more by now) from ads & other website income. It's a bit a 'in a gold rush, those selling shovels do best' thing.
I don't think you know what retired actual means here. It doesn't mean never working again, it more refers to being financially independent.
If he wanted to stop all those projects and never do anything again, he could. But that would probably be boring, so he pursues things that interest him, some of which net him income.
He's gone over his family's spending before, if you want to read more - http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/01/16/exposed-the-mmm-fa...
Yes. Also, I would add that MMM and his wife certainly did retire -- in the sense of quitting their conventional jobs and intending to live off the income, having no need to work. It just happened that in retirement they found themselves wanting to do some things, and those things have produced an income of their own. I'm pretty sure, the moment MMM isn't having fun with what he's currently doing, he'll stop and do something else, which choice will not be driven by how much income it produces. How is that not retirement? (The idea that in retirement you sit around all day and do essentially nothing is, I suppose, true for some people, but surely not a healthy or happy way of living your life.)
Beautiful. Since we get to make up our own definition of what retired means, I guess I am also retired.
re·tired rəˈtī(ə)rd/Submit adjective 1. having left one's job and ceased to work.
You can substitute "financially independent" if it makes you feel better. Many people continue doing things that generate income even though they don't need the money. It's worth noting the difference between someone working because it's what they enjoy doing vs. someone who is compelled to work by financial necessity.
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Well rather than attempting sarcasm, why don't you tell us what you think retired means? Presumably you're banned from ever doing any task that might even possibly net you any money?
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I think a better term for what he preaches is financial independence.
It depends on how you define retired. Most people define being retired as living a life without obligations required to bring home the bacon and by that definition MMM is now retired (at his expense levels), but when he made the claim at first I felt he was overselling it. But the blog ads bring in much more than he is spending + passive investments ditto so if he would stop working / bringing in other money besides those streams he would be able to do this forever.
>when he made the claim at first I felt he was overselling it.
In what way? His passive investments were bringing in far more than his spending, so in what sense was he "overselling" it?
He had to go on the 'carpentour' to not eat into his savings.
Retirement means not having to work, period.
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He has said that he has enough money as is, but continues to do what he does because it's more interesting than sitting on his thumbs all day.
Being retired or financially independent is really about being able to do what you like when you want to and not having to worry about money. Choosing not to work at all simply to conform to what other people's expectations about what you're "allowed" to do if you call yourself retired is kind of silly.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-...
He's functionally retired. He was living off income from his investments before he started the blog.
The blog happened to take off and bring a windfall of money that allowed him to make some purchases he might not have otherwise made, but he posts his budget every year and it's pretty clear he could easily live off only his investment income, and does for the most part. He also gave a six-figure amount away to charity last year.
I think the answer is 1 - http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/05/19/2016-spending/
That said, some of the blog money is going into non-index investments like mmm hq - http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/08/02/introducing-the-mm...
The answers to your question is here:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/05/19/2016-spending/
tl;dr - He is still very frugal, unless you count his business expenses. He definitely works on his business and brings in income, but he gives much of it away.
He's not frugal, he is very creative with his accounting. In the post you linked he deducts his medical expenses and food expenses.
Also if you look at the post you linked "Does not include the $30k detached Studio I built." 30k$ is more than a LOT of people gross annually in the U.S. and he claims it doesn't count as an expense which conveniently keeps his budget 30k$ smaller than it in fact was.
According to the U.S Census Bureau "The per capita income for the overall population in 2008 was $26,964; for non-Hispanic Whites, it was $31,313; for Blacks, it was $18,406; for Asians, it was $30,292; and for Hispanics, it was $15,674." which are all less than his 30k$ "hey guys it doesn't count I added a whole new room to my house" creative budget.
My take was that he followed his own advice and did successfully "retire" without any of the blogging or brand income. Then his blog took off, and he started pulling a lot more money and getting quite famous.
He definitely has enough money to retire forever, but chooses to keep running the blog and doing interviews because he enjoys it, and it's something to do.
(1). He was functionally retired before his brand started bringing in $400k/year.
All I know is he makes good money off the blog, and his affiliate link disclosures (e.g. Betterment) are often poor (e.g. at the end of an article, which doesn't conform to federal guidelines). It also, of course, calls his judgment into question, though naturally he swears up and down he loves the companies that sponsor him.
According to this New Yorker article, the blog makes hundreds of thousands a year. So now his 'early retirement' is starting to look like 'smart career change for getting much richer.'
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/02/29/mr-money-musta...
I read that his blog fetches half-a-million a year in revenue and he's barely monetized it. He brags about turning down offers from large institutions for various reasons. I'm sure these offers were quite lucrative.
I suspect the unrealized worth of his brand is in the $50-100mm range. He has a huge cult following (his words) among some of the highest earning members of society.