Comment by zbentley
7 years ago
While fork() might be sub-optimal for launching different programs (fork() + exec() vs. posix_spawn()), it's absolutely essential in several types of common systems that don't use it to launch different programs.
Fork-requiring program class 1:
The biggest example where fork() is needed are webservers/long-running programs with significant unchanging memory overhead and/or startup time.
Many large applications written in a language or framework that prefers the single-process/single-thread model for executing requests (e.g. Python/gunicorn, Perl, a lot of Ruby, NodeJS with ‘cluster’ for multicore, etc.) are basically dependent on fork(). Such applications often have a huge amount of memory required at startup (due to loading libraries and initializing frameworks/constant state). Creating workers that can execute requests in parallel but don’t require any additional memory overhead (just what they consume per request) is essential for them. fork()ing without exec()ing a new program facilitates this memory sharing; everything is copy-on-write, and most big webapps don’t need to write most of the startup-initialized memory they have, though they may need to read it.
Additionally, starting up such programs can take a long time due to costly initialization (seconds or minutes in the worst cases); using fork() allows them to quickly replace failed or aged-out subprocesses without having to pay that overhead (which also typically pegs a CPU core) to change their parallelism. “Quickly” might not be quick enough if a program needs to continually launch new subprocesses, but for periodically forking (or just forking-at-startup) long-running servers with a big footprint, it’s far better than re-initializing the whole runtime. For better or worse, we’ve come far enough from old-school process-per-request CGI that it is no longer feasible in most production deployments.
Anticipated rebuttals:
Q: Wouldn't it be nice if everyone wrote apps small enough that startup time was minimized and memory footprint was low?
A: Sure, but they won’t.
Q: People should just write their big, long-running services in a framework that starts fast, has low memory requirements, and uses threads instead of fork()s.
A: See previous answer. Also see zzzcpan’s response.
Q: Can you access some of those benefits with careful use of shared memory?
A: Yes, but it’s much harder to do than it is to use fork() in most cases (caveat Windows, but it’s still hard).
Q: Do tools exist in single-proc/single-thread forking frameworks/languages which switch from forking to hybrid async/threaded paradigms (like gevent) instead?
A: Yes, but they’re not nearly as mature, capable, or useful (especially when you need to utilize multiple cores).
Fork-requiring program class 2:
Programs which fork infrequently in order to parallelize uncommon tasks over shared memory. Redis does this to great effect; it doesn’t exec(), it just forks off a child process which keeps the memory image at the time of fork from the parent, and writes most of that memory state to disk so that the parent can keep handling requests while the child snapshots.
Python’s multiprocessing excels at these kinds of cases as well. If you’re launching and destroying multiprocessing pools multiple times a second, then sure, you’re holding it wrong, but many people get huge wins from using multiprocessing to do parallel operations on big data sets that were present in memory at the time multiprocessing fork()ed off processes. While this isn’t cross-platform, it can be a really massive performance advantage: no need to serialize data and pass it to a multiprocessing child (this is what apply_async does under the covers) if the data is already accessible in memory when the child starts. Node's 'cluster' module will do this too, if you ask nicely. Many other languages and frameworks support similar patterns: the common thread is making fork()ing parallelism "easy enough" with the option of spending a little extra effort to make it really really cheap to get pre-fork memory state into children for processing. Oh, and you basically don't have to worry about corrupting anyone else's in-memory state if you do this (not so with threads).
Anticipated Rebuttals:
Q: $language provides a really accessible way to use true threads that isn’t nearly as tricky as e.g. multiprocessing or knowing all the gotchas (e.g. accidental file descriptor sharing between non-fork-safe libraries) of fork(); why not use that?
A: Many people still prefer languages with primarily-forking parallelism[1] constructs for reasons besides their fork-based concurrency capabilities--nobody’s claiming multiprocessing beats goroutines for API friendliness--so fork() remains useful in much more than a legacy capacity.
Q: Why not use $tool which does this via threads or why not bind $threaded_language to $scripting_language and use threads on the other side of the FFI boundary?
A: People won’t switch. They won’t switch because it’s hard (don't tell me threaded Rust is as easy to pick up as multiprocessing--Rust has a lot of advantages in this space, but that ain't one of them) and because there’s a positive benefit to staying within a given platform, even if some infrequent tasks (hopefully your Python doesn’t invoke multiprocessing too much) are a bit more cumbersome than usual. Also, “Friendly, easy-to-use concurrency with threads” is often a very false promise. There’s a reason Antirez is resistant to threading.
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TL;DR perhaps using fork() and exec() for launching new programs needs to stop. But fork() itself is absolutely essential for common real-world use cases.
[1] References to parallelism via fork() above assume you have more than one core to schedule processes onto. Otherwise it’s not that parallel.
EDITs: grammar. There will be several because essay. I won't change the substance.
There is one case where fork() is fantastic: as a way to dump a core of a running process while leaving the process running -- just fork() and abort()! But even this case should be handled by having something like gcore(1).
Another common use of fork() for things other than exec()ing is multi-process services where all will keep running te same program. Arranging to spawn or vfork-then-exec self and have the child realize it's a worker and not a (re)starter is more work because a bunch of state needs to be passed to the child somehow (via an internal interface), and that feels hackish... And also this case doesn't suffer much from fork()s badness: you fork() early and have little or no state in the parent that could have fork-unsafety issues. But it's worth switching this use-case to spawn or vfork-then-exec just so we have no use cases for fork() left.
These are both mentioned in the paper.
> While fork() might be sub-optimal for launching different programs (fork() + exec() vs. posix_spawn())
I don't think it is suboptimal. As the paper acknowledges it primary use is to set up the environment of the program you are about to exec(). There are four points to be made about that:
1. If you don't need to set up the environment it imposes almost no coding overhead. It reduces to "if (!(pid = fork()) exec(...)". That's hardly a huge imposition.
2. It doesn't seem to impose much runtime overhead either. If it did Linux and BSD would have acquired a spawn() syscall's ages ago. As it is they all implement posix_spawn() using a vfork() / exec(). Given we are talking a 30 year history here any claims getting rid of the fork() would give a noticeable performance boost should not be taken seriously without evidence.
3. If you do need to setup the environment then yes there are traps with threads and other things. As the paper says it's terrible - but to paraphrase Churchill the one thing it has in it's favour is it's better than all the other ways of doing the same thing. They actually acknowledge how to replace flexibility allowed by fork() is an open research question. "We think it's horrible, but we don't have an alternative" isn't a convincing argument.
4. For all it's faults fork() has one outstanding attribute - it's conceptually drop dead simple: "create an exact copy of the process, the sole difference being getpid() returns a different value". That translates to bugger all code needed to implement it, few bugs, small man pages and a simple interface. A replacement providing the same flexibility will be some hideously complex thing that tries to implement all the use cases people used fork() for. It will be big and hard to learn, hard to use correctly, take reams of code, still won't do all that fork() allowed you to do. We will be complaining about if for decades to come.
I stopped reading the paper when they claims O_CLOEXEC was an overhead imposed by fork(). It isn't. The telltale give away should be it doesn't take effect on a fork() - it happens on the exec(), and the spawn() or whatever does exec()'s job. If you remove fork() things like O_CLOEXEC is your only way to control what environment your child process gets. Therefore one outcome of removing fork() is the reverse of what they claim - you won't get less O_CLOEXEC's, you will get many, many more of them as programmers clamour for ways to do the things fork() allowed them to do.