Comment by johnisgood
6 years ago
Surveillance capitalism? Capitalism as an economic system does not surveil, governments and corporations do. If you do not like a service, you can opt out by not using it, unlike the government. If you have an issue with something used by millions of people, then you should consider the possibility that it actually may be the people who keep the service alive.
I try to do my part. I do not buy access to games on Steam, movies and TV series on Netflix, books on Amazon, I do not use Google, I do not use Facebook nor am I in contact with anyone who does, and so on.
I am open to discussion. Why is it specifically capitalism's fault? What other economic systems would be favored, and why?
Surveillance capitalism is a variant of that economic system, much like industrial capitalism or financial capitalism. It's characterized by specific business models, which have particular consequences in society.
> If you do not like a service, you can opt out by not using it
This is a simplistic objection, that doesn't stand to cursory scrutiny. These systems invade everything, and give you no real way of consenting. When you visit some random site, you will be informed upon to dozens of services, with no way of even knowing which. You might not use Google, but can you avoid sending an email to anyone using Gmail - particularly those who use it with their own domain?
And this is getting impossible to escape even in real life, with companies employing many mechanisms to surveil you on the public street, without you even entering their private property. How do you opt out of that? Stay at home 24/7? No, that doesn't work either.
> If you have an issue with something used by millions of people, then you should consider the possibility that it actually may be the people who keep the service alive.
People are driven by incentives. We can criticize a system, government or company for incentivizing behavior we consider harmful.
> I try to do my part. I do not buy access to games on Steam, movies and TV series on Netflix, books on Amazon, I do not use Google, I do not use Facebook nor am I in contact with anyone who does, and so on.
And yet, the last site you submitted to HN loads stuff from Facebook's servers. Even if you have enough know-how to block them, you've helped them surveil other people.
> Why is it specifically capitalism's fault?
It's capitalism's fault insofar as it promotes these business models.
> What other economic systems would be favored, and why?
Criticizing a system doesn't mean one advocates its replacement.
This is a simplistic objection, that doesn't stand to cursory scrutiny
You decide the browser and extensions you are using, and your computer is actually making the connection to the others websites.. !
When you send a regular snail mail you don't control either the postal box used -- a company could be scanning the document. Don't send the mail, or encrypt it.
The issues lies in the fact that the streets are public and not private places
> You decide the browser and extensions you are using, and your computer is actually making the connection to the others websites.. !
Consent requires intent. Just because my browser happened to connect to some website, does not mean I give consent to have my accesses recorded and used for other purposes.
You may say it's legitimate to log and track without consent, but you can't invent my consent.
And the fact that it's often considered legitimate to log and track without consent is what enables most surveillance capitalism (though some consensual business models exist as well).
> When you send a regular snail mail you don't control either the postal box used -- a company could be scanning the document.
And that would be part of surveillance capitalism as well.
> The issues lies in the fact that the streets are public and not private places
Maybe so; analyzing such questions is part of the studies on surveillance capitalism.