Comment by friendlybus
7 years ago
You do assume that.
>By what logical reasoning / axiomatic induction etc did >they conclude that being correct is enough? > >I say there's none.
I don't think myself or people as perfectly rational. Tests have shown we are mostly subconscious beings. We are not masters in our own house.
Tailoring everything to the other person and being kind can lend into being straight up manipulative. We have an identity in the world that effects how people hear what is said. My kindness can be less effective than yours because of my identity. Wielding all of my outward facing tools to achieve a goal can include being just the right amount of challenging so that the content of what I say is heard as plausible, credible and valuable. Many attempts at kindness can leave the words in the wind, in one ear and out the other.
A value structure is taking all ideas in and bringing them into an order. Utilitarianism would be one idea that is ranked among others, as would rationality and politeness and kindness. There's light and dark to all of them, you couldn't pigeon hole someone as executing on just one of the tools or ideas listed.
>You do assume that.
The quote you pasted is about axiomatic reasoning not being able to conclude that "being correct is enough". Not that the people I mention didn't use any logical reasoning / axiomatic induction at all. As I wrote, they used some, but combined with ignoring some necessary steps (either because they didn't occur to them, or because of an implicit bias).
>I don't think myself or people as perfectly rational.
No, but some people do. In anycase, I wasn't talking about people who "think themselves as perfectly rational". I was talking about people who think that their reasoning that "truth trumps delivery" came in a perfectly rational way (whether they consider themselves otherwise rational in their other ideas/behavior or not).
>Tailoring everything to the other person and being kind can lend into being straight up manipulative.
Or it might not. It's how you use it. One can also use the truth manipulatively (e.g. to hurt the other, invoke some inferiority complex and numerous other ways), in cases when a little white lie would not have had the desired effect on the other.