Unlike any other previous Tesla, or for that matter any other previous electric car, this is a reasonable value proposition. Everyone is so busy panning the looks they are overlooking the utility of this truck. Even the Model 3 is expensive compared to its peers at $35k. This this is priced competitive with non-electric trucks, heck, it's priced extremely well versus electric trucks. A 6 seat truck with a 6.5 foot truck bed and a 3500 pound capacity for $40k is genuinely competitive with GM/ Ford, likewise $50k for a 4WD truck which tows 14k pounds is absolutely reasonable. Unless you are regularly driving more than 250 miles per day, being able to charge at home is way better than filling up at gas stations.
> Unless you are regularly driving more than 250 miles per day, being able to charge at home is way better than filling up at gas stations.
There's no way the Tesla truck gets 250 miles when loaded up with 3500 pounds or hauling a trailer. It's very unclear if the range is sufficient if you use this truck like an actual truck where you need those things. Similarly if you are using this as a work truck there's some poor design choices involved here, too. Like the inability to access the bed from the sides of the vehicle. Or the non-flat roof complicating roof racks or additional lighting.
This appears to be more of a "lifestyle" truck than a "work" truck, and in that market how important are the extra cargo pounds or trailer capacity?
Work trucks are those plain white base model trucks with steel wheels and plastic interiors. You get them cheap and they will basically approve anyone for cheap financing of a few trucks through their business. Nobody is catering to those buyers when they design a truck. You look at those things on the lot and they look like one of the nicer trucks except only partially assembled.
The $50k trucks are basically for suburban dads. They used to drive luxury sedans while their wives drove minivans. Now the dads drive trucks that have replaced the minivan and the moms drive luxury SUVs. Trucks need to fit 6+ people, have nice interiors and enough space for hauling kids' sports gear and Home Depot stuff on the weekends. The Cybertruck is perfect for this segment. Fits 6 people, has plenty of hauling capacity and will take down a Ferrari in the 1/4 mile.
Let's be honest, this truck won't replace Chevy/Ram/Ford trucks on work sites. This truck will primarily be used to haul mountain bikes, soccer equipment and the occasional run to Home Depot.
> in that market how important are the extra cargo pounds or trailer capacity?
Not really important. What's important is that it _look_ like it can haul stuff. Like most Ford F-1-2-whatevers, Rams and other pickups, most of the time they're empty and car-wash clean.
I actually like the looks of the Tesla pickup. It's about time they went more avant-garde with their designs. This is supposed to be the future, dammit, Mr Musk's other company makes spaceships. Why NOT futuristic cars instead of Lexus look-alikes?
You don't get anywhere near rated milage/ range on a normal truck when hauling loads either. The truth is even for work trucks, most trucks spend 80+% of the time lightly loaded or empty.
The issue with lumber racks and the apparent inability to haul larger items is a much bigger concern for "Work Trucks".
I see this as something which I can haul 3-4 friends and their bikes up to the trailhead in (or skiing/ camping/ fishing) and it seems pretty reasonably set up for that.
BTW, you're ignoring potentially huge cost savings with gas. Trucks are notoriously gas guzzling, many people spending 2-500 a month in gas. Cost would drop dramatically if you could plugin every night and wake up with a full 'tank'.
Trucks are gas guzzlers as compared to gas sedans. There’s no reason an electric truck of similar utility wouldn’t be similarly an electricity guzzler without making some sacrifices. The only benefit is that all-electric brings significant torque improvements even at low horsepower, but with modern turbochargers low-rpm torque has long been solved (my 2.0T sedan can tow!) and people won’t stop “horsepower shopping” just because the torque numbers are high as it’s mainly for bragging rights anyway.
Eh, doesn't have to be this way. What we need are smaller, lighter trucks; this message seems to have been missed by Ford who have released a new Ranger that's bigger than the F150 used to be.
This isn't something I'm ignoring, not having to deal with fuel ups and maintenance is one of the big reasons I've wanted to buy an electric car for several years. But every time I've priced a Tesla in the past, the premium for electric has been too high for me. That's what really caught my eye about this.
If this had been available 3 years ago when I bought my truck it would have been an instant purchase. As it is, I'm likely to sell my current truck and buy this when it comes out.
12000 miles a year at 13mpg and 2.5$ gas is $2308 per year. With a 5 year ownership time you are saving only [$11500-charging electricity costs]. So mid range $57000 AWD becomes $45500. Still pricey for most people.
I'd rather them come out with totally utilitarian bare bones truck but with the range and basic capabilities for $25K or so. THAT would be a game changer in the SUV/Truck space.
I didn't like the looks of this thing when I saw it, probably because it looks so different.
But after appreciating all the awesome engineering that went into it, I find myself loving the scifi look. Finally a vehicle designed for geeks like me. I had always thought it sad that stainless steel vehicles never caught on. Here's my chance, and built from the same material as a space ship, that's icing on the cake. This is for sure my next vehicle.
Not if you have to do a number of laps, though. Heat issues, etc. - the M3 is nearly track ready off the lot, the Tesla is really just a luxury car that happens to go fast from time to time.
Is the base Model 3 giving the BMW M3 a run for its money, or a higher end Model 3?
Regardless, the M3 isn't exactly the pinnacle of bang-for-your-buck speed. You are paying a big premium on the BMW for fit & finish which is miles ahead of the Model 3.
But when I wrote about the pricing on the Model 3 I was thinking more in terms of utility, not pure performance. If the job to be done is driving to work, the M3 isn't the car I'm looking at. It's the Honda Civic.
When I’m hauling around a 10,000 pound airstream trailer on highways that 500 miles becomes 250 and 250 becomes 125 on flat land. Now consider going uphill on mountains and the range drops even more. There’s a real possibility of being stranded with no place left to charge in the middle of nowhere where I could be easily killed without anyone even knowing.
I don't think it's as extreme as you're making it seem. Going uphill on mountains means you're going downhill which not only doesn't use power but regenerates power to the battery. It's obviously not insignificant of a cost but adding a trailer doesn't immediately halve the usable range.
Towing puts a toll on any vehicle's gas mileage, and you can run out of gas in a normal truck too. Tesla's have range indicators built in and let you know how far you are from the nearest charging station. Turns out people who are traveling pay at least a little attention to vehicle range, particularly when hauling a load. This isn't unique to electric vehicles, regular trucks fuel economy goes way down with a load as well and gas stations are often few and far between in the mountains.
Several of Musk's numbers don't add up. No pickup has a bed capacity of 3500 pounds. That's 1.75 tons. Even full sized US pickups top out at 3/4 ton, unless they're super duty which adds greatly to weight and lowers MPG painfully. A 1.75 ton load, especially raised as high up as shown in this prototype, would flip the truck in the slightest of turns. 3500 is surely a fake number.
Second, this is going to be a very heavy truck, 6000 pounds or more. No truck with thick stainless steel body panels can weigh less than 5500 pounds. How that much weight can deliver 250 to 500 miles of range... sounds like fantasy #2. Apparently Musk is imagining that battery technology will advance a lot before this thing ships. Or he's just making stuff up.
Finally, the claim that the bed will extend to the ground to form a useful ramp. Nah. These folks have never lived with a pickup. No object heavier than a bicycle is going to make it up that 45 degree incline and into the bed without crashing into the cab before it can stop, especially given the polished floor of the demo truck. That's fantasy #3. No telling how much more reality distortion lies beneath that funky exterior.
> How that much weight can deliver 250 to 500 miles of range... sounds like fantasy #2.
This falls into the category of put up or shut up. Tesla has bad track record of hitting deadlines, but a really good track record of hitting their range estimates. If they don't hit 250 miles on the base model, we're sure to hear about it when it's launched.
> Finally, the claim that the bed will extend to the ground to form a useful ramp. Nah. These folks have never lived with a pickup.
If you don't see the value in being able to tilt the truck bed then you've clearly never used a pickup to it's capacity.
I've bought 4 major appliances lately and hauled several tons of lumber, concrete, & gravel. Even without the ramps, Being able to tilt the bed down to unload the truck sounds like a fucking godsend to me. Particularly for loose loads and lumber where it would act a bit like a dump truck.
> A 1.75 ton load, especially raised as high up as shown in this prototype, would flip the truck in the slightest of turns.
The battery in this truck is probably incredibly heavy, which really moves the center of mass down. The suspension is also computer controlled, and at high loads you could lower the vehicle to be closer to the ground. Carrying 3500 pounds off road isn't a good idea even if the vehicle can corner so you don't need the clearance.
Actually I think your overestimating the total weight, but it goes to the above point when you say
> Second, this is going to be a very heavy truck, 6000 pounds or more.
> Musk is imagining that battery technology will advance a lot before this thing ships
Unlikely, more likely he is just planning on putting a lot of battery in it. Unlike you, Musk has lots of engineers working on this and has a pretty damn good idea of what is possible.
Pickup trucks are ideal for packing a lot of battery, lots of space along the bottom to do so.
> Finally, the claim that the bed will extend to the ground to form a useful ramp. Nah. These folks have never lived with a pickup. No object heavier than a bicycle is going to make it up that 45 degree incline and into the bed without crashing into the cab before it can stop, especially given the polished floor of the demo truck. That's fantasy #3. No telling how much more reality distortion lies beneath that funky exterior.
ROFL - you realized they literally live demoed doing so on a ATV right?
Moreover, the main use of ramps, at least in my mind having unloaded and loaded a pickup truck, is making it easier to move heavy objects in and out by hand.
I'm pretty sure the only person fantasizing here is you.
I know a lot of folks are walking away from the puzzling aesthetic but I think that’s the point. Existing Tesla owners with a taste for existing design cues won’t push Tesla sales any further. They’ve got to expand the demographic and this design has a chance to do this.
Think of all the wrangler, hummer, truck buyers who want a militaristic, rough, unpolished steel look and this is that flavor taken to an extreme.
Other buyers still have the S3XYs to choose from so we can all have our favorite toys from the same company. No cannibalization.
Whether people may like this exterior design or not, it's a display of bravery from Tesla to steer away from old conventional shapes and forms. Strong innovative design deviations like this should be praised.
my assumption was that people who ride this kind of car want to stand out in the first place. Most pick up trucks and other kind of trucks all look pretty weird like the slideshow at the start. Square cars, weird dimensions, etc. I think they're appealing to the right demographic here
This thing looks like straight out of a sci-fi movie. I think the aesthetic is going to get them a lot of sales. If I had use for a car, this would be at the very top of my list, purely based on the looks.
I hated it at first. But the more I look at it, the more I like it. It's crazy and totally memeable, like a cross between Guy Fieri, Cosmo Kramer, and Jeff Goldblum.
I bet they'll get a ton of sales from people buying it ironically. Which, when you think about it, is why many people buy trucks in the first place - very few are buying it for utility.
Yup. You need to apply only very little imagination here - this is just a paint job away from designs used in half of the sci-fi series of the last 20 years.
You also need to look at the Eastern market - Chinese/Middle East markets are apparently what is driving the outrageous size of BMW's grills, and many other extreme design elements currently en vogue.
In the Middle East the Land Cruiser V8 is king. It's not because of looks (although IMO they don't look bad), but what it can do.
Can you use this to overtake someone on the hard shoulder (half covered in sand) and go bumming around sand dunes? That's what Tesla have got to do to win there.
Flat panel is what trucks have needed to go back to. Get a bad dent or the garbage is rusting out? Cut it out and weld some sheet on top. No need buy an entire door or go to a body shop.
This is the first time I have seen a production vehicle's design to be less realistic (in terms of usability, component reuse, artistic freedom, etc) than it's artistic renders.
Here's a few artist imagined renders, and to be honest, they would be a lot less likely to get an April 1st calendar check reaction:
Whether it looks hideous or not would still depend on personal preferences though. I like the fact that it looks, well like a concept car, but it isn't.
The divisiveness of this design is precisely what will propel its success. It's the coolest production car I've ever seen. And I expect >50% of the population to strongly disagree, mostly people from different generations. "Appalling" designs get free viral marketing; the trick is to still appeal to enough of your target market.
This truck gets attention. It's a loud status statement that looks cheap to build, costs less than $50k. Well done Tesla.
This thread already has more comments than anything I've seen in months. The design is absolutely doing its job as a marketing tool.
Some people will love it, some people will hate it, a lot of people are probably just kind of confounded by it but will come to like it after they see a few in person.
Either way it's absolutely dominating a news cycle, which isn't easy to do.
I actually like this design because it's not the same old boring style of nearly every other vehicle these days, but I've always been pretty nonconformist.
What really stood out to me is the truck bed and the way the ramp pulls (or folds?) out. It actually seems very sensible and well designed, despite looking like it's trying too hard to be different.
And the sides of the bed of the truck come down at an angle so you can't lean over the side to grab something out of the bed or sit on the side of the bed. Strapping things down at an angle like that will be difficult as well.
It's tough in unimportant ways but weak when it comes to the bed which is arguably the most important feature of a truck.
I think this vehicle is better described as a crossover. For a crossover its not as ugly to me because I'm not hung up on the design decision to neuter the bed. But as a truck it looks like they chose a really terrible looking form over function.
I'd buy this one in a minute if I had the need for a truck. It's so beautiful. I totally dig into this retro futuristic design. Wish they made a car like that. Tesla is killing it.
I absolutely love the design! It's so new, so unique, and so bold where as I am not certain I'd be able to tell a ford a chevy and a ram apart without their logos
Don't be ridiculous. The US has no pedestrian safety standards whatsoever. In a sane world, the NHTSA would have outlawed bull bars and required trucks to have sideguards.
That was my immediate thought. Granted, I've not watched the video as I'm at work so if it was covered then I've not seen it, but that thing looks like it has absolutely no crumple zones, and the lack of curved surfaces would cause horrific injury in a pedestrian collision.
Tesla Model S and 3 in terms of collision safety are the safest cars ever sold in America. There is a giant crumple zone where the engine would be in an ICE vehicle. The Cybertruck will be the same.
Not meant to be mainstream. It's meant to be f'ing tough and show how much of a beast the electric vehicle can be. Really takes the air out of being 'Built Ford Tough' Likely just following the Roadster play book. Get the toughness doubters out of the way, then a more traditional truck to follow.
Does it not being mainstream even matter, though? Because at least here in AU, and I believe in the EU, to even register it as roadworthy it needs to not compromise its collision protection which includes pedestrian collisions.
I guess it’s a good thing that trucks like this aren’t really a thing in the EU.
They exist, but I don’t know anyone who has ever owned or rented one. They’re hard to find, dealerships don’t tend to have them so you’d have to find a specialist importer I reckon.
Tesla pedestrian collision warning is dangerously ineffective. It passes some tests with flying colors and completely fails other pedestrian safety tests.
Sure, but a manufacturer couldn't sell a car with a solid steel bumper. In the US you have lots of freedom to modify your car after you buy it, but manufacturers have strict regulations.
>Does the US not have pedestrian safety standards?
I don't know what it is like outside of the United States but here everyone has the common sense to know "don't walk in front of moving vehicles" as you are taught as a child "look both ways before crossing" over and over and over.
You can put all of safety features you want on a vehicle, but if they hit a pedestrian there is a VERY good chance they will die. That's a lot of force and a little bit of rubber or plastic won't make a lot of difference, I say this as someone that lost a very dear friend to a hit and run as a pedestrian and lost another friend this year that was stationary on her motorcycle and someone rear-ended her and killed her (effectively) instantly.
Did both of your friends not have common sense or what? Didn't they know not to walk in front of moving vehicles? They'd be alive now if the had known that, duh.
And plus your argument falls flat if you consider that even 1% better chance of survival means a lot of lives saved. Are you saying looks outweight safety for pedestrians?
As a truck guy who has owned a lot of trucks and currently owns a 2017 Ram 2500 CTD 4x4 and a Land Rover Defender 110, I'm telling you right now: this is going to kill it. This is the suburban status item of 2022.
I want to buy this right now. This has nearly the towing capacity of my Ram and will smoke my wife's Audi on the track.
> As a truck guy who has owned a lot of trucks and currently owns a 2017 Ram 2500 CTD 4x4 and a Land Rover Defender 110, I'm telling you right now: this is going to kill it.
We'll see.
If it does kill, the looks won't be a problem, they'll be an asset - a more extreme version of the Prius.
But if it doesn't, a lot of people will blame the look.
This demographic will love the look. Have you seen pickups lately? The Big 3 have been chasing an industrial aesthetic for years. This was a very bold move and I feel very strongly that this will shake up the market.
The specs are a truck lover's dream. Most pickups are driving office dudes like me to our office jobs every day. We hate the gas mileage but we love the look and we want something powerful enough to tow the boat or ATV hauler on the weekends. This truck claims it can do that AND beat a Porsche off the traffic light AND never have to visit a fuel pump again.
Do people in the rural/suburban US really tow that much that often? Seeing the number of trucks just doesn’t make sense (especially given how few are towing anything). Is there a little measure of lifestyle signaling or macho involved in truck ownership, or towing capacity comparison?
Car companies don't limit themselves to selling people a car based on what their life is like now, people have already got something that lets them do the things they currently do.
They can market it based on what their life could be like if they brought the car. Perhaps in vague, emotional terms.
You too could be kayaking/mountain biking/skiing through picturesque countryside with your pretty, athletic friends... if you buy a Brand X SUV. Be confident in any situation. Whatever, wherever, whenever. Adventure starts here. Built tough. Driven by dreams. Past the pavement. Built for city roads and no roads.
I know several people with campers, horse trailers, car trailers, boats, etc. Most aren’t maxing out their towing capacity, but if you’re driving through any mountains, you’ll want to be well within those limits unless you want a white knuckle experience.
I have a Silverado diesel truck which I inherited. I don't tow often, but I do use it a lot for landscaping work -- hauling mulch, brick, and lumber in and yard waste out to the recycling center.
Its going to sell well, like every Tesla. I suspect that it won't sell well to people who buy trucks for their actual utility, but you're right that this thing will totally be a status symbol; just not among people who would utilize its capabilities.
Just look at the success of the G-Wagon among white LA uurbanite-types. No one cares about the utility. It just looks weird and gives off this vibe of "I work! Trust me! Look at my utilitarian car!" That's who this will sell to, and it will sell well.
The G-Wagon is a very high end luxury SUV with a huge profit margin. As such, MB can afford to sell only a handful. But at the advertised price, the Cybertruck offers no such margin. It'll surely will be a money-loser for Tesla which they'll have to sell like F150s for a decade just to break even.
The Cybertruck isn't about profit. It's about making Tesla's name synonymous with shock and awe.
I also consider myself a "truck guy". In my entire life, I've owned a single car. I had it for about a year when I got up one morning, drove to the dealership, bought a new Dodge (basically the same as yours, except 1500), and told the girlfriend she could have the car (hers had seen better days).
I would not be caught dead in one of these.
(Disclaimer: I'm a Harley riding country boy from the midwest, probably not Tesla's major demographic anyways!)
The vast majority of SUVs and trucks are bought to signal some sort of status or affiliation to a group. Just look at how clean these vehicles are. And some of the brands. Porsche SUV. Mercedes pickup.
The people who actual use these class of vehicles for real have mud splashed over the vehicle and extra cans of petrol. They aren’t going to buy an unproven vehicle that you can’t refuel.
They’ll probably make a killing with the Cybertruck.
I am not sure if this will become a status symbol, but I 100% agree that that is the market it is going for.
I know three people who own a pickup (one in commercial construction, one who is a big animal vet, and one who has a horse farm). This does not appear to be designed for those people at all.
However, I think it could appeal to the same people who wanted a hummer. Driving it is just overtly confrontational. It will be fascinating to see whether there is a market for exactly this though, because Tesla is supposed to be environmentally friendly, and the people who bought hummers clearly didn't care about that (at the time, at least).
Your wife drives an Audi that can't do better than 0-60 in 6.5 seconds?
Also.. tracks have turns. Low center of gravity helps, but this thing will probably weigh 3-4x as much as a sporty car. Even the Model S has weight comparable to a minivan. My guess is a Subaru BRZ could beat this around many tracks.
This is a cool truck and all, and I hope Tesla makes more exciting designs like this, but I'm tired of people thinking that Teslas are performance cars just because they have torque. Tesla has yet to make anything that interests me at the prices they charge.
>>Your wife drives an Audi that can't do better than 0-60 in 6.5 seconds?
How is that surprising? Unless you go for the really expensive ones with top-spec engines, you're normally looking at 7-8s to 60mph. As an example, the Q3 can be had with 6 different engines, and only the range-topping 45 TFSI breaks the 6.5s barrier at 6.3s to 60mph. All other engines are slower.
A1 can be had with 3 different engines, and the fastest one does 0-60 in 7.7s.
Really, the only Audi where <6.5s to 60mph is "standard" is the A8, with the slowest engine being the 50 TDI that does 0-60 in 5.9s. The second model in line, the A7, starts with a 40TDI that does 0-60 in 8.3 seconds.
At 6000 pounds and a high CoG, this thing is going to handle worse than most ladder frame trucks. And that's bad.
It's also going to have truly awful front and rear visibility. Long windshields are invariably difficult to live with, creating a hothouse interior on any day without clouds. Once you add appendages to make this legal (side mirrors, rear center brake and tail lights, headlights and turn signals) much of the bold charm of the original concept truck (which is all this is) will be lost.
I agree the design is refreshingly bold. But lots of concept cars in the past initially took fans by storm only to fade into the mainstream by the time they shipped. I'll be very impressed if a design this striking can maintain its visual impact all the way through production.
Love it or hate it seems to be the case here - not many fence sitters. Been reading TMC and FB Tesla Owners group the past hour and reactions are I’d estimate about 80% negative.
I agree and think this could possibly replace many SUVs in suburban areas. 6 person seating is another great selling point for many, just look at all of the third row vehicles like the Honda Pilot. The base price of the Cybertruck is similar to a Pilot. Which would you rather drive?
isn't the electric-grid dependency completely antithetical to the ownership of an off-road, off-civilization vehicle ?
(also, honestly this design is a fugly tin can. Elon musk is generally going through a tin can phase (starship etc)). I wouldn't bet on many sales for this, but it's still interesting to see something so different
500 miles is fairly substantial range. I can see this being useful for a very wide variety of use cases, but obviously not those longer-term multi-day excursions into the wilderness.
That said, it is a truck, and maybe someone (perhaps even Tesla) will develop a modular LNG/propane/diesel generator unit you can put into the back of the truck for purposes of range extension. I realize this is inefficient, not environmentally friendly, and going in the opposite direction of what the electric car is supposed to do, but its also only applicable in those extreme edge cases where you need to be away from the grid for days or weeks.
Is this satire or are rich car people really this insufferable? This may be the best/worst comment I've ever seen here. The level of status projecting and suburban truck guy cringe is through the roof.
I think it looks pretty awesome. The ATV that charges in the back as the "oh, and one more thing" moment was also great. I can see this being very popular. There is something very masculine and forward looking about the design. The interior shots on the website are also impressive-- I wonder why they didn't show that tonight in the demo (probably it's just a rendering and the prototype version has a bare-bones interior). The glass breaking was tough to watch though-- I'm sure it threw him off during the rest of the presentation.
Skip to around 15 minutes in unless you like watching terrible smartphone footage of a bunch of people standing around waiting for the truck to turn up.
I wonder if they cut the presentation a little short because of the glass issue . Then again, Musk isn't exactly the greatest presenter so I don't think he could play off someone talking in his ear to cut it short.
As the current owner of a 2017 F150 long bed 4x4 with an ARE bed cap, I'm super-tempted by the Tesla. It's a total no-brainer for the people buying things like the Honda Ridgeline. It's less so for people who treat their truck like a work vehicle.
Frankly, I don't think will cannibalize the existing P/U market as much as it will sway more people away from SUVs into [Cyber]trucks, especially if the back seat is as spacious as a normal full size truck's.
It has a 6.5' bed, and I look at the bed to judge whether it's used as a truck or not. Shortbeds are unusable and nearly useless for any real work. They're so frustrating, that I don't even consider a shortbed truck a truck at all. It's a family sedan masquerading as one. Tesla very wisely delivered a real truck.
The only thing the Cybertruck needs is more colors. It's a little odd looking, like Robocop is coming to town, but it's time for changes in the market. The Model 3 converted me to viewing existing cars as dinosaurs, and this will probably transform the truck market as well.
I grew up working on a farm, and while I'm a developer today, I still get my hands dirty. I'm in for one.
6.5' is a short bed, though - it's the same length as most short-bed full-size 1/2 or 3/4 ton pickups.
It's only a "long bed" when you compare it to midsize trucks like the Tacoma or Ridgeline, which is what this vehicle really is more akin to (especially the first generation Ridgeline, as you can't replace the bed on the Cybertruck or the old Ridgeline as it was a part of the unibody - not good when you accidentally overload or bend up the bed, unfortunately).
Curious to see what the production version ends up like, but I don't know if this is really going to be taken seriously by people who need a "real" truck, at least in the current form. It's more of a weekend warrior vehicle right now, I'd say
I had a short-bed diesel for 5 years or so, and put it to plenty of use. Yes, it's not ideal for common dimensions of lumber (but you can just pop the tailgate down and put some little red flags on stuff), but it will still haul tons of random things (for me: large trash dump runs, car engines on stands, a set of 16 car tires, several 55 gallon drums, a full bucketload of topsoil, a pallet of landscaping rock, etc). IMHO, a short-bed truck is still a truck.
Given the sledgehammer test, at least from the side that thing will be very aggressive in a crash. As in, if it runs into you, or if you run into it you will be more injured and/or dead. You generally want a little give on the road in both directions.
It's more than a belief... the statistics bear it out.
"The lowest 2015 death rate by vehicle type is for very large SUVs: 13 deaths per million registered vehicles. The highest is for mini cars: 64 deaths per million registered vehicles."
https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/are-smaller-cars-as-safe-...
I think a perception of additional personal safety is definitely a reason people like SUVs.
But you can be super safe while still helping protect your crash partners. You can often improve both your and your crash partner's safety with more crumple zones.
I don't think the patrons of this thing are going to be thinking about this much.
Great truck. Very exotic design, excellent price point, However, there was one statement that stood out as a MASSIVE mistake:
>The glass is stronger than standard car glass
Please stop doing this. Audi and Mercedes pulled this gimmicky crap about 8 years ago until they realized samaritans, Firefighters and EMT's need to be able to breech safety-glass windows in the event you become entrapped in the vehicle (possibly burning) during a major accident. You may also need to shatter a window in order to exit your vehicle if it becomes submerged in a body of water.
Please, the vehicle already looks like the M577 Armored Personnel Carrier from Aliens. it outruns a porsche, it out pulls an f150. Youve ticked all the masculine boxes truck owners want for this thing. Dont turn it into a rolling coffin.
I'm not sure the lightly thrown ball can break the polymer layer. Just because the glass layer shatters it doesn't mean you can go trough it.
Hope they don't use something like this 3M polymer layer, because it means you will be trapped for 2 more minutes even if you have the tools to go trough the polymer.
It's possible to build a stronger window that's still vulnerable to those "Window Punch" devices that all firemen carry these days. I'm sure this was considered, I believe it's regulated in some regions.
Otherwise, if that is indeed the case, if it was a family car for use with kids that would be a borderline deal breaker. But that doesn't seem to be the target market here. For me personally as long as they communicate the risk honestly I don't see the problem.
Model X doors are pretty mechanically exotic and the normal way they're opened requires electric power. E.g. the prying done at 15 minutes into the video is not at all how you'd force a normal car door.
There’s nothing gimmicky or odd about this. It was demonstrated to behave exactly like standard laminated auto glass, which is everything short of required to meet FMVSS 226 standards required by 2017. Most all US cars now have laminated side glass.
And for good reason, they make curtain air bags stay in place and do their job correctly. Side impacts are way more common than fires or submersions.
Regardless, first responders have been dealing with laminated glass on windshields for many decades, they have tools to deal with it.
And the number of people who break out their own windows to save themselves is approaching zero. Tools are typically still required to break old-school safety glass.
The extra strong steel panels also raise questions about accidents and crumple zones. Modern vehicles are designed to absorb as much force as possible instead of deflecting the impact.
My first thought is that it's not even a truck. The price will likely be increased and it will be unrepairable. You can't drive a car down the street without side mirrors.
I heard that Tesla is bypassing that on the Roadster with removable side mirrors which you can install cameras there instead. Not sure on the specifics, but something along those lines (although I'm not sure about the legality and please don't quote me on this).
In the grand scheme of things, what are the chances of getting in a car accident that leaves you alive, but traps you, and also causes life threatening injures or situations, but only at the level where if first responders can't reach and extract you in the average amount of time? And how many people are afraid enough of becoming submerged in water to even have the tools necessary to shatter a regular window? And even if they have the tools, what are the chances they'd be in reach and that you'd be able enough to reach them?
Pretty high? You need only be unconcious to end up dying in a burning car because no one could extract you. Cars also deform in weird and chaotic ways in a real world accident, who knows what will be the final piece between you and safety. People sometimes exit via their rear windows because the front of the cabin is crushed and the glass there broke, but the doors and windshield frames were also crushed so you can't exit. Cars are pretty good at absorbing the impact so your body can tolerate it non-fatally, but you may still end up broken, trapped or simply unconcious.
The main reason cars with internal-combustion engines catch on fire during collisions must be a breach in the fuel system. While your point about rescuing passengers is valid, I'm not sure fires alone could support it.
Conceivably, the fire could be another car burning. If you have two disabled cars next to each other after a collision and one of them is on fire, people in the car next to it could be cooked if they don't get out.
There are many valid reasons first responders might have to remove people from cars quickly.
Who is going to be attacking you? Seriously. Even with all this crazy stuff going on we live in one of the most peaceful times is history. Especially in the West, which is where most of these are going to sell (few people that live in these violent places could afford this. Except maybe the authoritarian regimes themselves).
Personally I'd rather get the extra miles that a lighter vehicle offers than knowing that I can shoot my truck with a pistol. If you feel like you need this kind of protection then I feel sorry that you live in such unjustified fear.
I disagree, I wish we could have fewer vehicle restrictions for a certain class a vehicles for people who accept the risks associated. A truck with bullet proof windows might be nice for people who live or drive through certain areas.
That sounds like exactly the sort of statistical analysis people tend to get spectacularly wrong. I'd be surprised if more than a single-digit number of people get shot while driving even in the US. For Europe, you probably need to express it in years/incident if you want to use integers.
Meanwhile, more than a million people die in crashes each year, and some 40 million or so are injured. Putting any, even small, additional obstacle in the way of help is bound to be a losing proposition.
This would essentially be a re-hash of the seatbelt debate, where many people were somehow convinced they could escape any accident by quickly jumping out before impact. That attitude lead to seatbelt laws, which were the single most important factor in reducing fatalities per mile traveled by a factor of 10 or so since the peak.
While I'm tempted to invoke some Darwinian principle, the damage wouldn't be limited to those making that decisions, but also their passenger, the next owners, etc, and possibly pedestrian victims of collisions.
In any case, I doubt it's actually forbidden right now. There are, after all, bulletproof cars. They just tend to be expensive enough to mostly discourage people motivated by Hollywood macho fantasies.
Most of these types of vehicle will be owned by a suburbian parent driving his/her kids to some variant of organized recreational events. The rest is just marketing.
Stupid question: what’s up with trucks in urban areas? I understand the utility of a truck in rural/farm setting but never figured why folks want to lug around that pointless empty half while living in cities. Two of the folks I know who owns trucks have used empty halfs probably twice in a year when bringing home some furniture but that too could have delivered free by the store. Again, as I said, stupid question.
In some cases it seems like pure conspicuous consumption. The sheer impracticality of it is a badge of honor. This is not atypical for American consumerism.
In fact, I wonder about the Tesla truck's appeal. I feel like the oversized truck's negative ecological impact is one part of its appeal, do does an electric truck actually end up selling? Here in the South, some pickup drivers modify their exhausts to spew toxic smoke ("rolling coal") which is clearly not an option with the Tesla...
That’s so true, trucks and SUVs like the Mercedes G Wagon, the Ford Raptor (the F150’s rowdy cousin) and maybe even the Range Rover HSE are typical Veblen Goods. They do really well in urban areas specifically because they are over-engineered and are overkill for the purpose they are used for and are not afraid to show it off. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cybertruck does well for the exact same reason.
I agree with you on many pickup purchases being conspicuous consumption, but I think you're underestimating how many people would happily display conspicuous green consumption. This has all the "look at my big powerful toy" but acceptable for someone wanting to display how environmentally aware they are.
Conspicuous consumption is an enormous part of consumerism absolutely everywhere. Wearing a $20,000 suit is conspicuous consumption to those who can tell that’s what you’re wearing but we don’t generally call it that because it’s only conspicuous if you’re in the know.
Having learnt the term 'rolling coal' just now, I would sincerely hope the morons doing this are in a minority amongst truck drivers. I find it far more likely that conspicuous consumption is to blame for the truck/SUV trend than anti-environmentalism.
I live in a city and have used my pick-up truck for 15yrs constantly to move furniture, haul trash to the dump, and bulk material (mulch, dirt, sand, pavers, etc) for myself and friends. It's a major time and money saver. Yes, parking is a PITA and the gas is horrendous. However, with the population density, the utility need to haul materials is compounded - especially now that you have increasing #'s of DIY renovations and things like urban farms.
The thing I find interesting about this truck design is the angled body. It looks like it's designed for minimised radar cross section (RCS) signature, which is a military application benefit.
I live in a northern Midwest suburb, in a region that receives a lot of snow in the winter. I have driven older trucks my whole life, in part because of of the 4x4 capability for winter driving. I also enjoy being the guy who keeps a tow strap in the toolbox and hauls people out of ditches. Hard to do that without a heavy 4x4 vehicle.
When you have the bed, you realize there are a lot more uses for it than you might otherwise think. Other than just hauling stuff, the tailgate acts as a bench to sit on- I used to have lunch with my wife every day in the summer like this. At an outdoor event (like fireworks, outdoor concert in a park, etc.) I've lined the bed with blankets and lounged at comfortable height with 3 friends and great view of whatever is going on.
For me, the real key is to own an older truck that you don't mind dinging or using to its potential. I buy used, with cash, and I don't spend more than $15K or so. I don't understand spending $65-75K on a brand new mall-crawling status symbol that will only start being used like a truck in 15 years by a guy like me.
Although admittedly, I really like the look and presumed potential of the new Tesla truck. It's the first vehicle that I'd actually consider buying new. I wonder how well the stainless steel will hold up the salty roads- the bane of vehicles around here.
I live in Northern Europe and drive a Prius and have no issues in the winter. Last year we went to visit my wife's grandma, who lives in a 'village' (nearest neighbour 1km away) ~5km down a uneven dirt track which is bad enough in the summer. When we went, there was 30cm of snow on the road, but I had absolutely no issues. I was surprised by how well it handled it.
Sure if I had ended up in a ditch I would have had troubles, but you'd also have issues with a truck. (There aren't many big trees you can use to tow yourself out in this area)
I get that maybe you like trucks, but I don't think there is as much need as you make out (in the winter department - your other points are fair arguments). Modern cars (esp. 4x4) can handle pretty much any road surface, the only case you would need something bigger is for off-road where you need higher clearance.
The long-term utility of this Tesla truck will be interesting to see. Even though new trucks are insanely priced right now, they do have very good longer-term value compared to cars.
I like having a truck but would never drop $75k for one. I currently own a 1999 Chevy 2500. It has 150,000 miles on it, which is essentially nothing for a truck that old. A lot of people who buy trucks expect them to last 15+ years and most of them do. Hell, as long as the frame is in good shape, you won't have any trouble finding someone who would buy the truck and drop a new engine in it, considering a crate 350 will set you back less than $3,000.
> there are a lot more uses for it than you might otherwise think
This looks like a solution in search of a problem. People are buying stuff they don't need then finding a good justification for it (from their perspective). But almost anything can be justified this way. Even driving an 18-wheeler will have advantages you never thought about but this doesn't negate the downsides. Mainly that you carry around 4000-5000lbs (over 2000Kg) of metal mainly just to move 1 or 2 people and nothing more. This is a lot of wasted fuel and a lot of space taken in the street.
Coal also has advantages but few people would dare defend it with this argument.
Like me, you probably live in the vast majority of the Midwest that is as flat as a pancake. I would argue in that scenario 4x4 is not very important: if there's no incline, two wheel drive will work in almost any weather situation.
(sure, on strictly theoretical grounds, having 4 wheel drive, or 10 wheel drive or 1000 wheel drive, if there are no downsides, would always be preferable)
I once pulled a rather Jeep out of a ditch in my old Volvo 240 station wagon. At low speeds basically every 100+ HP vehicle is traction limited. It also did surprisingly well in the snow with a little practice and good tires.
How do you justify having much dirtier and far more carbon emissions than people who have appropriately sized vehicles? Granted, you could use it a few times for the bed, but why not just rent a truck and save the environment the other 95% of trips?
Trucks in urban settings are an exclusively American thing. Because of the chicken tax [1], a 20% import duty on trucks, foreign trucks are unprofitable in the US. This lack of competition incentivizes American auto makers to create as much domestic demand for trucks as possible.
Urban pickup trucks in particular are very American, but the ever increasing number of SUVs in places like central London is just as absurd, not to mention problematic[0]. I'm guessing one reason Europe favours SUVs over trucks is because the roads are generally much narrower here.
Toyota trucks are everywhere and our family 1995 Toyota t-100 regularly had people stopping us making offers on it from about 2005ish until I gave it to my half-brother in 2013 with almost 140k miles on it (which is nothing for a Toyota), I even had people knock on the door of our house offering to buy it when it wasn't for sale. The Indiana State Police (I live in Indiana) even had some of their fleet as Toyota pickups for years (they still might). Actually, I'm quite confident I received more offers for my t-100 than I did for my '67 c-10 and I'd regularly get stopped and asked if I was willing to sell it too (which I finally did when someone offered me twice what I'd paid for it, which I'm still sore about I really miss that truck).
To be fair though, Toyota does manufacture a lot of vehicles in Canada and the United States which gets around the 'chicken tax'.
The reason you don't see a lot of imported pickups is because most of them are absolutely tiny, when you see an Isuzu truck for example it looks about as practical as an El Camino.
They are also popular in Austria because you pay lower yearly/monthly taxes on small utility trucks even if you don't run a business. Plenty of large US trucks parking in the center of Vienna...
How is the chicken tax related to practicality of trucks in urban settings? It makes American trucks cheaper. But OP's question was about the practicality of a large truck in an urban setting.
It seems like you wanted to show off your knowledge of the chicken tax and just threw it in an answer to whatever thread came up first.
I found that once I owned a home, the utility for a truck doing "weekend warrior" tasks was great. Runs to the dump, transporting furniture, soil/mulch, firewood. Standard towing package for a boat or a rental trailer. Can also fit bikes, kayaks, skis, and camping equipment, no need for expensive roof rack accessories.
We use my wife's crossover for all of the family trips, so it's usually just me in the truck. Before I owned a home I enjoyed driving a nicer sedan but now I would now I prefer the utility of a mid-size truck.
In Europe instead of owning big trucks or trailers for occasional use, we just rent them when needed or hire someone (usually businesses) who also owns one of those to do it. Plus, almost every store will offer delivery for reasonable prices. It generally cheaper and easier this way.
But I guess in US this usually wouldn't be viable because of the big land and less population density.
I live in Houston, where there are LOTS of very very clean very very expensive pickups. Most are status symbols that rarely see any true use.
However, in my immediate social group, there are LOTS of smaller trucks or smaller SUVs, mostly because of the practicality for bicycling trips. Sure, you can do a roof rack or a hitch rack, but if you want to go out to the hill country with you and your wife and both MTB and road bikes, you find yourself wishing for a truck bed pretty fast.
There's lots of overlap in this group with other outdoor activities -- camping, hiking, some fishing, a very small amount of hunting -- that reward actual trucks. My friend J has a full-size (read: HUGE) Ford with back seats and a long bed, and uses the HELL out of it, since he travels back and forth to Colorado with bikes pretty frequently.
But he and his wife also have a VW they use for most urban driving. ;)
The problem is, they're just bad vehicles. They don't handle well, they guzzle fuel and they kill more pedestrians. There is no point in them unless you're a farmer.
> physically dominate the average car in an accident
This is just such an American way of putting it. Sounds so much nicer than "kill everyone in the other vehicle to provide a marginally higher chance for its owner" but it's basically the same thing
People will come up with all sorts of justifications for what is really an emotional purchase.
If you don't believe this take a look at the marketing for cars, the further upmarket you go the more it is laden with emotional triggers. Buy this car and your wife will become slim and attractive, your kids will love you, roads will become empty and smooth before you, that new speed boat will suddenly be within reach and trailerable.
Never mind the reality of endless car payments, clogged up streets, increasing pedestrian deaths, kids not being able to play outside, particulate pollution and climate change.
In the US, for many folks, their vehicle is an identity statement. Generally minivans, sedans, and econoboxes are the exceptions, but the marketing here for most other car models tries hard to sell some demographic that they can claim somehow to be special. And interesting. I suspect the majority of pickup owners want to make such a statement. For them, driving an SUV would send the wrong message.
As someone who has a truck in an urban area I have one just for the reason you listed. I dont use the bed often but when I need it I do not have to make special arrangements. While it is true that sometimes its possible to get free delivery for some larger items thats no guarantee and you have are dependent on their schedule versus being able to do it on yours.
If you're going to have a vehicle the flexibility of a truck is second to none.
I live in Los Angeles. Four years ago, I bought a pick up truck.
In my case, I don't have a long commute. I can bike to work. So when I need a vehicle, it's to take my kids around, haul something I can't carry with my bike, or head out of the city for camping/adventuring/etc. The truck has been perfect. As it is, I use the bed of the truck at least once a week. I use it like all the other SUVs on the road, only I much prefer the flexibility of a proper truck, let alone the real offroad and towing capabilities.
Moreover, I know it's going to last pretty much forever and should I get a second, electric vehicle, there really won't ever be a time when having a truck on hand won't be useful.
I have a Toyota Matrix. It's a hatchback with a back seat that folds down into a flat bed. It's big enough for me to fit a bike without removing the wheels. Works for appliances and furniture as well.
From my anecdotal experience, here are the main purposes:
* Hauling stuff from the home improvement and warehouse stores. Single family houses are a bit of work depending on age and when they are not, HGTV is the devil's workshop that invents the work.
* Safety: the feeling that regardless of who is at fault, you will live in a car crash. I have seen plenty of sad news reports where in a truck+car collision, the people in the car paid for it with their lives while the truck driver walked away.
* Status: possible - just don't have enough social understanding to know whether this is still a thing. I can imagine a jacked-up F350 or Silverado may be a status symbol.
I'm a married father of 3 with 1/4 acre of property. I did fine without a truck for years, but I bought an old pickup for $5k last year as our second family vehicle.
You can certainly make do with a smaller vehicle, but there are these occasional things that make having a truck suuuuper convenient. Some personal examples from the last year:
* Needed to top dress my lawn and it only takes 3 loads of soil from IFA to cover my 1/4 acre
* My father (who lives very close) bought a boat knowing he could use my truck to haul it when necessary. And yes, he talked to me about it first, and my family gets to use it whenever we want.
* I built a treehouse in this giant willow in my front yard and could not have hauled the lumber or fireman's pole without a truck
* With 5 people in the family we get huge Costco runs regularly, these are moderately easier to haul in the back of the truck.
* I get social capital when bringing my truck to any family or friend moving parties
* Used it to haul lumber, tools, and people when the extended family participated in our family cabin area's work day
* Hauled my father inlaw's motorcycle+ATV trailer on a family outing
IMO not everyone needs one, but in a community or geographically close family it is always nice to have that person you can call to borrow their truck, and if you're the one that has the truck then you get social capital when lending it and you also don't have to borrow one yourself.
For us since it's a second vehicle it does sit idle most of the time while we use the minivan for typical travel needs. But I have space to park it, and the truck obviously isn't wasting gas when we're not using it. And since we paid cash and it was cheap, there's just not much of a downside to keeping it around.
A thing like VW Touran or Renault Scenic will do that for you with much smaller fuel consumption, better ride, and also easier parking in tight places. (I'm 6'2" = 188 cm and >100 kg and VW Golf Sportsvan is very convenient, no need to step much up or down).
(And they will tow the things that most people tow, like a trailer that weighs a ton).
I'm a small car kind of guy myself and generally consider trucks in the city to be silly. my last roommate had an f150 though and there are a couple of advantages. some of the roads in my area are simply awful, so jarring to drive on in my car that I have to go 10mph under the speed limit sometimes. there are also poorly designed intersections where you can easily hop the curb if you're not careful. driving a big truck means you don't have to care about this stuff. you don't feel the bumps at speed and you can just drive right over the curb with no problem. people don't cut you off or pull other aggressive moves on you nearly as often. my roommate has driven away (after exchanging info!) from two accidents where the other car was totaled.
I don't want one myself, but I can understand the appeal.
Practical answer: the people who actually need to move furniture, or other large items, in a city environment use vans.
Look at businesses and what their fleet vehicles are. No one uses an F150 in the city. Why? Because thieves very often steal stuff from the flatbed. If you actually want to transport large, bulky items in a city environment, you need to close off the back so that no one can look in and see the cargo.
2020 Ford Transit-350 Cargo is $35k.
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F150 comes more in handy in rural areas, where there aren't thieves around. The flatbed is useful for hauling very large, oversized items, such as mountains of topsoil / compost, or rocks for your garden, or bundles of hay for stuff.
But when it comes to "city items" like furniture (often valuable furniture, so thieves want it), or large equipment like computer racks and servers... a van wins.
I think you're making a decent point, honestly. I live in a close-in suburb of a midwestern city and I think quite a few of the trucks in my neighborhood are probably 99% unnecessary from a utility standpoint. Having a reasonably sized pickup truck is a godsend for me right now, as I'm renovating our house and landscaping the yard. But frankly, since I work remotely, I really want this truck to be the last vehicle I ever purchase for myself (wife still commutes), and ideally we'll be a one-car household in the next 5 years.
For many, it is unneeded. For some, they only want the large vehicle, stability, and power for status or offroading. For some, they want to storage capacity for rare incidents. Some actually have use of it, just more rarely (say, a woodworking hobby). Then, certainly some professionals in construction have daily use of it.
Hard to judge which demographic you're looking at while driving around.
Back in the late 90's, for me anyway, buying a Ford Ranger strictly dominated just about any other choice. I didn't have a family/girlfriend so I didn't need the extra seats. 20mpg was pretty darn good compared to most trucks. The smaller cab meant I could heat/ac the interior pretty quickly. Easy to drive and maintain, and finally I had all that utility for when I needed it, which was rare but often enough to solve a lot of infrequent problems. It just seemed like the most practical choice. (I still have that truck, my family's other vehicle is a CRV.)
NYC is constantly choked for public parking and the rise of SUVs has made it so much worse. If every Ford Explorer owner bought a Mini Cooper we'd get 10,000 parking spaces back and less smog too.
Here in the southern US, it's mostly a status symbol that people delude themselves into thinking they have a utility need for. Typically people here will have at most 5-6 true needs for one each year, and deal with horrible gas economy (and blinding folks in sedans) since gas is cheap. Around here there's a lot of towing (boats, trailers, etc) but it's rare to see anyone make use of the bed.
Urban person here. Anything I go on a trip or go camping (many times a year), or have to move or help someone else move (unfortunately also many times a year), I wish I had a truck. I'm paying for a vehicle anyway, why not have one that does everything I need?
They are also useful if you own your own business that requires moving things around.
Note that I do not own a truck, I just wish I did.
I played in a band for years in Los Angeles and I loved being able to fit all of our gear into my truck on the weekends. Everyone was bummed when I finally sold the truck and bought a Prius. The Prius is surprisingly spacious and I could still fit my small drum kit and an amp or two but not our whole setup. Admittedly _much_ better for the weekday commute though.
People assume trucks are safer in accidents, even though that is by most measures a wrong assumption- Humans are irrational in that way.
(the other big reasons for their popularity is status signalling, and perverse incentives created by regulation of "passenger cars" as a category that have negatively impacted the quality of "regular cars" in the US.)
White people love boots and pickup trucks. That’s like asking my uncle why he has a $1k sound system in his $2k car (black folks love bass). I think it’s a cultural thing.
The US is a very wasteful society. It makes sense that they'd want to burn twice as much fuel as necessary to get themselves around. Watch Wall-E again to see where we're heading. Those "SUVs" are quite literally obese versions of the cars of the past. Obese vehicles to carry around obese, useless bodies.
I feel like I am taking crazy pills with the amount of good sentiment to this design. This thing is absolutely fugly. The guys over at Rivian must be having a party right now.
As someone with a strong preference for a classical aesthetic I'm finding it hard to reason just how drawn to this vehicle I am.
It's just so outrageously different, offers the functionality of both a truck and the tech and performance of a Tesla, and isn't comparable with other 'trucks' which I'd argue are homogeneous in nature, cliche, particularly un-aesthetically pleasing and are synonymous with gas-guzzling North American indulgence.
Regardless, it's another instance of Musk pushing boundaries which I find myself continually applauding.
I'm tired of curvy trucks anyways. Maybe it's a good time to go back to something more straight. I also like that the exterior can take such a beating. It doesn't make sense that a tough pick-up can get so easily dinged and scratched. I would MUCH rather have that durable shell.
The fact that you hate modern truck design means you are not representative of 99% of truck buyers. Have you noticed the Honda Ridgeline has completely fell in line with other manufactures styling because of I presume market pressure?
Exactly right. It's polarizing. Very polarizing, if this comment thread is any indication. And the pole of people who absolutely love it will buy it. That group of people does not need to be large for this to be successful.
This is a great example of the marketing strategy that advocates focusing on a small group of very passionate customers. If you can create a set of fanatical early adopters for a brand-new product, you're on your way to success. Very few products achieve immediate mainstream success and assuming that Tesla won't likely have the production capacity to meet mainstream demand anyway, this is a very smart play.
It looks like the attempt of a “futuristic” vehicle in an early 90’s low polygon video game.
Reading these responses makes me think I’m out of the loop on some joke. Seriously. I had no doubt when I came to the discussion that all the comments would be about how ugly it is.
Maybe this is one of those white/gold vs. black/blue dress things. Or the “yanni” thing.
I’m blown away by any of the comments that find the design appealing.
It seems to me that most of the engineering is in the 'skateboard', There's no reason they can't sell the same chassis with two different bodies.
- The cybertruck for people who want that.
- A more conventional body for anyone else.
It looks like a shark. There's definitely a deliberately threatening aesthetic to it. That's likely why it's so polarizing. As someone who likes medieval weapons, predators, and martial arts competitions, I definitely find it a beautiful design.
>I feel like I am taking crazy pills with the amount of good sentiment to this design. This thing is absolutely fugly.
The funny part to me is that this design is something I saw often maybe 20 years ago. It's the stereotypical future car that major automotive design departments often came up with, and sketched up in programs like Alias AutoStudio, back when it was still Alias. None of the designs ever saw prototypes let alone production, I'm guessing largely because they were too radical for the time and thus seen as too risky.
It's like it's half future car of the early 2000s, and the other half a nod to DeLorean.
Flash forward to 2019, the world's falling apart and going crazy at the same time, things feel a lot more surreal, advancements are becoming too numerous for the average person to keep track of, AI is a big deal, smartphones and all manner of tech are just a boring fact of life now, and as always the future is right around the corner, but for real this time.
Likewise, 80s and early 90s nostalgia is in vogue right now. Cyberpunk 2077 is nearing release. For the target audience of this car, they remember the 80s because they either grew up in it or lived it.
When you lay eyes on this thing, you immediately go "What the fuck, is that a real car?" I can think of no better marketing.
It's a rather genius design in my opinion, a retrofuture tribute to a future that never was, but now is.
Analysis aside, I tend to agree with you: it's pretty ugly, but for some reason I really like it.
The look grows on me the more I look at the model. I’m used to thinking trucks are fugly, though. They’re often gigantic rectangles that I associate with noise and function over form. This is definitely more progressive looking than the blocky designs I see on the road.
I personally hope it fails and they redesign since I don't want to be forced to drive around in a city with a bunch of these on the street - they are that ugly to me, viscerally ugly. And I waited for the better part of a year to watch yesterday's live stream, hoping they would get it right while worried they would miss the practical side of things after the odd choice on the model x doors which allow for no roof racks. meh. But the basic tech is phenomenal.
Fugly is in the eye of the beholder. To me this is an outstanding design, with crazy cool cyberpunk inspiration, and finally a fucking bold design move -- 99% of cars looking the same shit, even sports cars like Lamborginis sticking to the same designs since the 80s...
I've had to see such an interesting take since the DeLorean....
That's because the look of a Lamborghini is one of it's core signature elements. They could design a very nice looking car, but if it doesn't look like a Lamborghini, then a lot of their client base would be disappointed.
You'll notice this pattern with many of the really high end cars. Some signature elements are always present and evolve only very slowly over time. You could call it the master stroke, it's what makes a particular brand distinct from others. This is deliberate and I for one like that.
A complete newcomer can design whatever they want right away.
I think it's genius. A lot of pickup truck owners seem to feel that trucks are manly and Tesla owners are wimps. This post-apocalyptic nightmare of a truck will make it hard to keep feeling that way.
I know that design is totally subjective, but somehow this reminds of the Homer-Car design-wise. Is it just me or do a lot of the late Tesla / SpaceX designs look like a 7 year-old draw rockets and future-cars back in the 70s and 80s?
We could probably learn a lot from 7 year olds. It is an incredible age. First grasp of reason and a real understanding of the world, and nothing has been beat out of them yet.
I had never thought I'd want a truck. This though is totally retro and I absolutely love it. Looks like Elon Musk is finally making stuff that's something Tony Stark would've created (aesthetically). Seems very Iron Man to me.
Having grown up in the 90s with a dream of becoming an automotive designer one of my favorite designs was that of the Lamborghini Countach (1974). The Cybertruck design is reminiscent of that design (to me), and I think that's one of the reasons it's drawing me in so strongly.
I think you're just too used to the kool-aid. From an engineering perspective, curvy cars are a disgusting PIA. There's no way to work on them without special tools, every dent is a big deal... they're like long fake painted nails: a total hinderance to work.
This car looks like I could beat the fuck out of it and the fix it with a sheet of metal and either a welder, some bolts, or some rivets. I see beauty in adaptability, which is something modern cars have none of.
I find it hard to believe the typical market for pickups would actually find this an attractive vehicle as well. I keep seeing "Masculine" referring to the design, but this looks like a fairly poor attempt at superficial masculinity, and definitely not a genuinely rugged and practical vehicle, which is what is generally considered attractive in a pickup or offroad vehicle. Purpose is the aesthetic, rather than aesthetics being the purpose.
I'm not a design expert by any amount. But I really like its shape. Maybe it's because I was an 80s child. It's like Robocop's car. The design attracts me much more than the more ... conventional, rouded? Tesla vehicles.
I love it. It's like one of the 'all sharp angles and super futurey and stuff!' cars from an 80s sci-fi film, where they've taken the body off a real car and welded up some ludicrous replacement. I mean why not FFS - have you seen what Chinese tastes are doing to BMW's grills?
It reminds me of a Prius and the other early EVs that weren't very popular exactly because they stood out in a bad way. I think part of Tesla's appeal is that their cars look mostly "normal", so to have this ridiculous stand-out design is unusual.
I don't like the tail end look - I wish they had kept the tailgate mostly vertical. However, if the marketing is to be believed re: the shape of the vehicle lending itself to its safety and strength, then I see beauty in function.
Yes it's not "right", fugly is relative to context, trends can make something fugly pretty. It's on the extreme-limit side of the spectrum. It's probably gonna have enough buyers to have its place IMO.
It’s ugly but it’s different. People can see you have one from 8 miles away. That’s an essential part of a status symbol. Like the extremely ugly Louis Vuitton print.
I think this really comes down to expectations. Imo, Tesla is a luxury brand. I get that some people feel like the Model 3 is a Tesla for the common man but the common man is either buying used or they're buying something that can be reliably fueled. That being said, and the reason for saying it, in the world of luxury brands idea matters too. The idea that an electric vehicle can compete on most of the spec sheet with a combustion/hybrid engine is sexy to people with futurist enthusiasms because electric things are being pushed as the sexy eco-friendly future right now. Obviously that's all just my own opinions, but I've yet to see much else to explain Tesla's balance sheets (plain incompetence isn't something I'm willing to buy into from the CEO that's working at innovating the astro services market as we speak).
My initial thought was that I could probably sketch this thing in CAD in like ten seconds. Rectangle. Triangle. Extrude. I'm sure the person at Tesla to whom that task was assigned enjoyed that aspect of the design.
You couldn't invent a more polar opposite of Steve Jobs than Elon Musk.
VERY disorganized presenting. Badly rehearsed. Awkward speech. Speech is almost never in sync with slides. Demos failed spectacularly. The rest of the event was him with a backdrop of two broken windows.
They didn't show the interior, and barely talked about the bed. Is this even good as a pickup truck? Is there enough storage?
This all seemed hastily put together (probably as a response to the other pickup truck press). But for an Elon presentation, this is pretty normal (high awkwardness).
Wanting to see him succeed or not aside, I find this far more intriguing and alluring. Apple keynote, especially recent ones, have become so cookiecutter and predictable. The surprise and strangeness factor is what makes Tesla events so irresistible. You truly feel like anything could happen, even the window breaking TWICE.
Agreed. I continue to want Tesla to wildly succeed. I don’t know anything about actual pickup trucks or why people buy them. Which is why I mainly commented on the presentation style.
And yet I think he’s the closest analogue to Steve Jobs. :)
A passionate person in charge, who tries to make the things he wants to use.
I wonder if the awkward persona isn’t intentional, i.e. to project a certain image, perhaps to appear less intimidating and more approachable, the guy you could nerd out about stuff with.
Wholeheartedly agree. Musk doesn't seem to give a shit about presentations. I won't be surprised if he doesn't even throw a fit at the window breakage fiasco. In Jobs world, that team would have been fired by now.
Musk is a tinkerer and it shows in all the aspects that you have outlined.
Regarding the interior - some 3-4 guys stepped out of the truck implying it must be quite spacious. An ATV could fit in the bed. So this truck is most likely going to sell. Pricing is spot on.
Elon keeps screwing up his presentations, and people keep buying his products. He give me hope that a sleek presentation isn't all that matters. That humanity still cares about content, not just the outward appearances.
Can someone that has actually worked closely with Musk confirm: is his thought process and speech as utterly disjointed as happens in most of his presentations?
Or, is this a nutty professor kinda of shtick that Elon thinks makes him seem more personable?
I replied to someone else with a very similar response, but I always thought the awkwardness of Elon giving presentations adds a certain level of sincerity. However, I do agree that some more specifics regarding interior, the bed, etc would have been nice.
"The Cybertruck is 230.9 inches long and sports a 149.9-inch wheelbase with a 6.5-foot-long, 57-inch-wide bed out back." By comparison, an F-150 has 50.6" between the wheelhouses.
Here's a picture of the bed, just before the ATV drives up to it. Note the wheelhouses don't impinge upon the cargo bed at all.
At the very end they brought out an ATV and put it in the bed. With the exception that it looks pretty far out there the specs are certainly impressive.
I'm willing to bet this truck is going to outsell the Model 3 and Y combined. Tesla is getting even further and further from the restrictions of ICE vehicle design.
I've seen Elon say he spends about 1% (or something like it) of his time for marketing/presentation preparation. And I think it included press-interviews/presentation-prep/etc.
And he was planning/hoping to reduce it even more.
From what you say, it seems Elon achieved his goal regarding his time management goal.
And I also remember some saying Apple engineers basically spent their time all year preparing for Jobs' next upcoming presentation. :)
> But for an Elon presentation, this is pretty normal (high awkwardness).
Give me the high-functioning aspie CEO who puts all their energy into realizing a brilliant vision, and has none left over to game their audience with 'charisma' (e.g., Adam Neumann). Not sure that Steve Jobs was much of a normie either - though possibly his meditation practice had some effect to his conduct.
> You couldn't invent a more polar opposite of Steve Jobs than Elon Musk.
Jobs would start off describing a common problem before unveiling the product which inevitably solves said problem. This often brought cheers that felt genuine.
Musk simply shows something bizarre and talks about how they made it, never how it solves your problems (other than a desire for the latest tech). edit Regarding the transition to EV vehicles, that's what Musk always says about new models, it's not a new thing.
I watched it, I cringed, I still put $100 down on a top-end model, hoping I'll have the cash when it arrives 2+ years hence.
Thing is: though the glass demo failed, we still know this guy comes thru with great stuff - he'll get that problem fixed, and we'll have videos soon of someone literally shooting up the truck with practically no damage (glass included). The man managed to get rockets to land & reuse; fixing the glass will be resolved next week.
I'm not sure if I'm thrilled or dismayed by the exterior design, but it's innovative and futuristic. It pushes the state of the industry forward.
No, but I think a lot of people group Musk and Jobs together. It's not that one is "better" than the other or anything like that, but rather they're very different people.
Yeah, a lot of people talking about how ugly it is. But that's exactly what a pick-up has always been. A big ugly thing with a bed in the back and a lot of utility most people didn't even use.
Some models over the years have looked decent. Many have (Ford especially) have been dog ugly. I could see this thing taking off, though not sure how rural truck owners would take to electric.
Edit: On second thought, rural truck owners must go through a ton of gas. I bet they would love to own something like this.
Edit edit: I also love that this thing can take a beating on the exterior. You don't have to worry about scratches in the paint or dents from shopping cart accidents.
I have a family member who has a modified Nissan truck, that is currently getting 9 mpg and driving him crazy because of it (it was a whopping 13 mpg stock). He's stupidly spending a fortune in gas. There is certainly going to be a huge market for electric trucks. I don't know if this is one of the winners, it's a super odd design choice so it's impossible to tell how the market will respond ahead of time, however some companies are going to win very big in the segment. I'm pulling for Tesla, they've placed a lot of early, risky bets trying to push passenger vehicles forward.
Right. People will spend 50K on a truck because it's a major part of their livelihood and then the gas will be a big burden. This could help a lot in those cases.
Days after the Jeep Gladiator (a Wrangler pickup) was available, I saw several in the suburbs. This is Tesla territory, so come 2022 there will be a bunch of Cybertrucks taking the kids to school.
How many rural areas have you been to? I see small houses with a half-dozen pickups sitting around all the time when I get more than 100 miles or so out of a major city. And places like ranches, farms, and orchards seem to operate small fleets of them.
Of course, they usually span the past few decades of makes/models, but there are plenty of towns where the trucks outnumber the people.
I think one big issue will be that a lot of people are like 50 miles from the nearest major highway or town, which makes the range a bigger issue for daily use.
Solar has been a hit for some rural folks as you can go off grid & make your own power. An electric vehicle could theoretically go part & parcel with that, although you'd need a large array.
when the Fukushima disaster happened in 2011 and the surrounding areas became no-go zone, gasoline cars were stuck because no gas tankers were coming in to refill the gas stations.
But electric cars were charging from local solar powered recharging stations just fine.
> that's exactly what a pick-up has always been. A big ugly thing
As a former truck owner I have to disagree. I like modern trucks and with a few exceptions think they've looked great since they were invented. The truck shown by Tesla does not appeal to me.
Frankly I think it's odd how one-sided the upvotes are going in this thread. I really don't think Tesla would bother astroturfing on HN so I dunno... I guess HN folks really like the design. Personally I just don't see it having wide appeal, especially among truck owners.
A Ford F150 for example, looks 'masculine'. The Tesla truck looks... sterile? It's like comparing a sledgehammer to a scalpel.
I'm assuming by "upvotes" you're referring to positive reactions to the design as opposed to the HN voting buttons.
The design, of course, is subjective. We'll be seeing professional commentary which may sway our opinion. I would be interested to see if there were design constraints which weighed heavily in the final design.
There's a prism of ugly and this truck fits in the region which I can live with. I have mostly found Ford designs to be ugly (1995 for example.) I also feel that truck designs have mostly been similar. If I find X year Ford to be ugly, then it's relative to the same year of Chevy. There's also utility ugly and the sort of ugly which attempts to be artistic but which fails into something I would be embarrassed to drive (curves and paint schemes which aren't meant to be functional and just look bad.)
The Tesla Cybertruck has the feel of minimalist utility. It's also bold and different. Unlike the Rivian, it's not trying to be anything like the current state of the art of trucks. I think it will have a lot of appeal for being different and for having crazy specs. It's ugly, but I want one.
I have been seeing good comments pointing out problems. For example, it doesn't seem to be accommodating to accessories. Maybe this is something which will get worked out before it hits production.
History will judge this thing better than we can. Regardless of our opinion, it will be interesting to see if the design sticks.
Anything about trucks in HN (or the internet really) will devolve into complaint fests about American trucks and, their size, their faux masculinity, how they are sub-par vehicles, etc. In that environment any sort of perceived challenge to the big 4 (Toyota Tundra included because it's the most American truck you can imagine, horrifying gas mileage, huge as hell) and any kind complaining about trucks is encouraged.
I don't really mind, it doesn't affect me one way or another, but I do find the consistency in these threads curious. Sometimes I chalk it up to probably far more European commenters than I would have guessed, but also it's just the demo of HN or people that spend too much time arguing about things on the internet (see the comment section of Jalopnik). You could easily turn loose a markov chain based comment generator on one of these threads and rise to the top.
This is basically cultural conditioning and selection bias. You've already owned a truck, you think they look great, you think they're masculine, you compare it to a sledgehammer. It seems marketing has worked very effectively on you.
That truck you link looks horrible. I cannot fathom how some designer thought that looked good. It’s like they worked halfway on the design and then pushed straight to production.
Then again some people feel the same way about the Tesla truck. Personally I think the Cybertruck looks incredible.
I want this car, but other pickups have started looking pretty decent for the past two decades now. To put it lightly, the cyber truck’s look is not conservative at all
Rural doesn't imply the individual owns land. Rural does imply long distances, modest incomes, etc. I certainly wouldn't want to charge an electric vehicle @ $0.14/KWH and I don't have the option for solar.
I have a Toyota Tacoma. I expect it will go well into the multi-hundred miles (typical for Tacomas), I have 4 jerry cans filled for when exploring off-road or for times like "oh hey, the power is out, the pump in a rural town doesn't have power".
My bit about rural truck owners was more about demographic than power source. I have lived much of my life in rural areas of Idaho and Montana. The looks of this thing is NO problem. People will love it. But as a big life change, going electric is a big leap when throwing down that 50K for the family truck. I guess we'll see.
I find it awesome. Kudos to Tesla for willingness to experiment with form and functionality. The car industry nowadays is all too predictable and boring. Great job Elon.
Sadly, that's not the case. Car companies are just trying to catch up with whatever seems to sell at the moment. And if there's a new model, it is usually related to a some "successful model" from the past or an existing model is given a crossover look. And even these new cars have too many issues.
You know what would've generated as much conversation? Just an electric truck with towing capability and decent range. They didn't need to make it looks so awful to generate conversation.
As a car guy, this is an amazing truck. Dual-motor can easily tow track car and all necessary gear. Built-in compressor means you can use air-tools on the go without a generator. Maybe even fit a quick jack in the trunk or trailer. AND it drives itself to the track. Never need to bring spare batteries for tools. It’s insane that it can do this, and likely win every drag race against street cars. All while blasting the Bladerunner theme on max volume.
This thing may be ugly but there are other concerns for people using this like a real truck.
-The bed is not easily accessible from the sides
-It's unibody(ask Honda about that)
-It's stainless steel which would make repairing difficult. You will now have to paint that raw steel after hammering out any dents after an accident just like the Delorean
Thank you! I was thinking the same things. More concerned about using the vehicle as a pickup than the design. I didn't see places to mount a rack, and only a few places that might be holes for straps.
Do you know what is involved in "hammering" out dents in a collision and how the metal looks after? Also you may need to then fill some surface irregularities with a filler.
This is why Deloreans that got into accidents were usually painted.
Of course if you can easily replace an entire panel with a new one, this can be done.
On cars the rear quarter panel cant be "replaced" like the front quarter panel which is just bolted on.
The design looks like a prepper's wet dream. But the pricing is incredible. Like $3k more than the Model Y's base model. And half as much as Rivian's base model, with the top end model costing the same as Rivian' base. Cybertruck wins in every spot but design against the Rivian, IMO. Frankly, some people I know that buy trucks would buy the Cybertruck because it looks badass (to some), like a stealth fighter.
I kept waiting for the sledgehammer guy to hit it and the walls to fall off, with a real truck inside.
I think they're going to be dealing with the slow ramp up that Tesla had for years before hitting mass production. Maybe they will release first, but at a decent volume? I'm skeptical.
Then again Tesla is well known for missing deadlines too!
AS a Truck Guy who has owned a lot of Trucks and Currently owns a F-150 XLT 4x4 and has Owns no less than 8 other Trucks and SUV's from Ford....
This is going to flop, big time. This is the worst looking Truck I have seen in a LONG time, this will not appeal to people that buy the Best selling Truck on the market, The F-150.
I have no interest in buying this, and i would not drive it even if they gave me one for free. Sure the performance is there, ofcourse when Ford and other manufactures release their Electric Trucks then when can do a Apple to Apple comparison.
I will be waiting on the Electric F-150, which should have comparable specs to the Rivian, and I would much rather have a Rivian Truck than this monstrosity
Why is this being downvoted? It's an opposing view and they are being honest. I ordered a Model X, getting it in two weeks, and am looking for a pickup truck to eventually move to after the Model X. I would not buy this, sorry. People like me will compare Rivian to CyberTruck and I think it's a natural comparison. We aren't going to compare traditional pickups, though, because people like me don't want an ICE pickup truck. With that said, why would I not buy a Rivian? The plan is to wait till they've produced it for a year, compare to current electric pickup market, take advantage of Federal Tax credit of Rivian and evaluate if it's worth it. I am the suburban guy, I am a Tesla buyer, and I pride myself on engineering + beautiful design. Tesla HAD that for all their vehicles, imo. Cybertruck is a niche vehicle, I wish it well, I grew up in the 80's so it is nostalgic but omg it makes me want to vomit. Sorry, I wanted to buy it, really did, but 80's design for cars, clothes, and hairstyles was a nightmare that I couldn't wake up from, kinda like the shirt that stopped halfway down your waist. I am not an 80's fan....born 1977.
In my case, while I like the aesthetic, I think aesthetic considerations aren't supposed to figure into buying a truck. Trucks exist to do work, buying one on aesthetics seems counter to the whole reason to own a truck in the first place.
At first I was dumbfounded. Like, they cannot be serious.
Then after a little while of looking at it, I thought, well, perhaps it is just crazy enough to work. Definitely thinking outside the box.
Then a bit later in the evening, I was struck by how in the space of a couple hours it had aged in my eyes, and it wasn't aging well. As soon as the 'interesting' wore off, all I can see is how boring the design really is.
By itself, maybe not such a big deal, pickups aren't meant to be exciting. They are successful because of their utility. King of the road, riding high, the modern incarnation of a 70s land yacht, very spacious inside, well appointed, and incidentally able to haul stuff when you want, pull stuff when you want. The very definition of function over form. The opposite of Cybertruck.
I'll wait and see how it plays out, since this is obviously a prototype of a prototype (read MotorTrend's writeup, they had early access and it was still coming together in the last couple weeks). The windows aren't street legal, the bumpers are not street legal, almost certainly the headlights and taillights aren't, etc. A lot of the actual finished product has yet to be designed, so I will withhold judgement until we see what it turns out to be.
I had a similar then different reaction . First I didn’t think it was real. Then I thought it was hideous. Now after looking at and reading about it more I’m starting to like it. I’m hoping Tesla starts using more of the same design cues in their other products.
I agree that electric trucks are important to combat climate change, but wow. If their goal is to sell to the market that buys pickup trucks, I think the styling is way off the mark.
Huge, beastly trucks are a status symbol and signalling to others that you are are certain demographic. Same reason some people buy cheap cars and add shiny wheels and lights. Same reason some people buy BMWs and Mercedes. These are all part of socioeconomic norms. I don't see how the normal truck crowd will latch on to this.
The specs are pretty impressive though. 500 mile range got my attention.
Rest assured, if you slap a "Punisher" sticker on this thing, it will be welcome at any roadside bar in Texas. It looks like the sort of thing the SEALs would roll up in.
I don't think we can know how the market that buys pickup trucks will react to this without running the experiment. Pickup truck buyers haven't had the option of buying a pickup truck that doesn't look like a conventional pickup truck.
Is the normal truck crowd going to latch onto a $70k truck?
I think this is going to resonate really well with techies. Not a huge demographic, but one that can afford it.
The market for sci-fi/cyberpunk cars won't be huge, but in exchange, this looks like it'll capture _all_ of that market, as opposed to a small slice of a more conventional one.
I appreciate Tesla for taking the pick up truck use cases and building something from scratch. This is the first pick up truck I’ve ever thought to myself “makes sense and I want it.” The ICE trucks have needy engines and most of the time the power is unused. The air suspension seems like a natural fit and I’m surprised it’s not already common place. I would love to take the Cybertruck off-roading. I’m also excited to see these on the road. It will make my inner kid feel like we finally made it to the future.
>The air suspension seems like a natural fit and I’m surprised it’s not already common place.
IIRC this was a thing on land rovers back in the day, and was notoriously unreliable. It's a great idea in theory, but much more difficult to get right than a bunch of steel springs.
Don't forget to adjust those mpg figures by ~13% for the higher energy density (and CO2 emissions) for diesel vs gasoline. So 30mpg diesel is ~ like 26.5 mpg gasoline.
>The ICE trucks have needy engines and most of the time the power is unused.
Can you explain...? You have so many options with ICE trucks, most of which now include turbo's... which only produce "unused power" when you put the pedal to the floor. Otherwise they sip gas (relatively speaking).
>The air suspension seems like a natural fit and I’m surprised it’s not already common place.
Literally an option if not standard feature on all new trucks... have you actually looked at anything else or just making uneducated comments?
You and your friends can feel free to downvote away, but have the guts to at least attempt to refute my statements...
Aesthetically speaking, it's a truck version of a DeLorean... which is growing on me the more I look at it.
Also, I don't know how they think they're going to get away with that tailgate design in the US. I love it, but the government doesn't allow brakelights to be on a moveable piece of bodywork (even though they have redundant lights under it). It's the same reason the back of the Ferrari California was so ugly... Ferrari learned this fact too late in the development process:
Yes, good catch. A driver's side mirror is required, passenger's side is optional (but recommended). But, there is some lobbying going on right now to allow cameras in place of mirrors (GM specifically is trying to get the new Corvette C8 rear view camera approved, which I'm guessing won't happen for launch in early 2020).
There are cars going on sale in the EU market (Audi E-tron, Honda E) with cameras replacing the side view mirrors. Presumably at some point these will also be allowed in the US.
I'm a child of the 80s. I remember StarFox and the F-117 stealth plane being the neatest stuff ever. The old lambo countache with the faceted shape that was almost starwars-y and was the coolest thing on wheels.
I'm nostalgic about those things.
So this polygonal look is targeting my demo.
...
That is the goddamned ugliest vehicle I've ever seen.
What I find fascinating is how strong my negative visceral reaction to that thing is. It's a car. Who gives a shit whether it looks "good"? What even is my internal metric for "looks good"? I have no idea, but, God, this thing is revolting.
My hunch is that this is because we use some of the same mental wiring for processing human faces to process the front of a car. (Automotive designers refer to the front of a car as its "face".) So we think it's ugly because some of the same wiring that recoils to disfiguring human faces is kicking in.
Unlike say the Aztec, this truck is “radically functional” design. No paint and simple geometry make it easier to manufacture and more durable.
I don’t think the mandate was “make this look strange” as much as it was “make this thing rugged and fast and powerful and we’re perfectly fine with it looking strange”.
We’ll see if they were successful, but I like the ambition. I’ll be curious, too, to see if some of this more radical thinking comes over to the Tesla Semi.
I was discussing this the other day with an automotive designer. Yes Fiat Multipla is ugly, but imagine the courage Roberto Giolito (the designer of Multipla) had when he proposed this to the management of FCA! Almost nobody in modern automotive industry dares to match this outside of the concept cars.
The Multipla was also very successful, and also happens to be one of the few Fiats that hold their value. A utility vehicle doesn't necessarily need to be attractive to be successful...
On the rare occasions I see a Multipla in real life, I actually have feeling* of disgust and revulsion - it really is a hideously ugly car.
I think there is something insect-like about the bulbous part that houses the lights - I wonder if perhaps something about the shape is triggering something innate, similar to how we may be hard-wired to fear snakes?
You know what I'm tired of? Every 4-door sedan on the road looking like the same boring bar of soap on wheels. It's gotten to the point where all major car brands are indistinguishable from each other besides small details like the grill and headlights. Nobody has any imagination anymore. You guys laughing at "ugly" cars are part of the problem, and the reason why car manufacturers won't take any risks anymore.
Tesla doesn't have the manufacturing capacity to sell a truck to everybody, and people that love something are willing to pay more than people who only mildly like something, so it makes sense that they would design a highly polarizing truck that a few people loved but everybody else hated. It's reminiscent of the economic model of fursuit manufacturers.
I 100% disagree, and believe what you're doing is the classic English Major grasping for meaning where none was implied.
I think what we're seeing is what happens when there is no one around to say 'no' to a company. Tesla is being fed, by everyone in at least the US, that they are the future and are prophets of what is to come.
So you take the attitude of 'I can do nothing wrong' and add a dash of Musk's inherent God-Complex, and mix it into the culture there.
Are you really going with the "they made it ugly on purpose to avoid selling too many of them" defense? Come on just because this is tesla doesn't mean you need to be realistic. It's a multiplia, someone had a brain fart and we end up with a fugly. It happens.
They made the look polarizing and a bit extreme for free PR. For the first few years after launch, every time it's seen on the road, people will talk about whether they love it or hate it. If they made it look like the F-150, most people wouldn't even notice.
For what it's worth, the designer of the Renault Twingo (another polarizing design) said something similar way back in the day. Better to design something 20% of people love and 80% of people hate than design something everyone just thinks is okay.
I think that is a bad joke rather than a legitimate plan to pressurize the vehicle. The fact that it is coming from Elon's Twitter and not Tesla's is a big indicator in my opinion. Either way, it isn't a great sign that we can't tell for sure.
The Vaporwave aesthetic goes beyond mere 80's nostalgia into a sort of fetishism. Normally, targeting fetishists is a bit niche; but Tesla has hit on a lot of success targeting market segments that everyone else thought were tiny niches.
I think the truck was built w/ spaceX in mind [1].
You can probably manufacture that thing quite easily from basic sheet metal, when you have limited machinery and labour on another planet.
The Hummer was also based on a US military vehicle from the gulf war, which gives it a lot of cachet with people who want a powerful (or want to project an image of power) vehicle. I don't doubt a lot of people will buy one of these things, but I don't see it coming anywhere close to the popularity of the hummer.
I think the hummer is a really good comparison here. The ground clearance and low center of gravity of the cybertruck will most likely give it legendary off road capabilities. I can't wait to see some footage of one at moab or something.
come on. look at the front bumper's angles. It could be more symmetrical even with a boxy look. They intentionally made it ugly. And not in some "retro" kind or "artistic" kind of angled look - it s not reminiscent of a style. It will almost look better crashed.
I do not feel this will appeal to people who buy a truck for frequent towing. 300 mile range unloaded = 150 mile range under load. With a camper in tow, you'll be stopping every 100-120 miles to recharge. How exactly will you recharge with a 30 foot trailer attached?
This will appeal to businesses that need to broadcast their eco sensibilities to us.
It looks like you can drive it into a lake and then it turns into a submarine. I bet he's gonna unlock that feature a few months after people bought it, and why the windows are "unbreakable"?
Go back and look at the lines and proportions of the countach[0] and look again at the cybertruck. It reminds me of a lambo in the same way that the phantom menace reminds me of a new hope.
I generally appreciate non curvy designs in many forms. But I agree with you on this, my immediate thought was, "God, this thing is absolutely hideous" Such a missed opportunity.
Someone on Reddit made a good point. They might be copying Sonic the movie's approach to marketing. Release a ugly version now, and then later on, release an improved version.
Trying to explain simple bad decision making with some kind of grand marketing strategy that involves incredible amounts of wasted work and huge amounts of coordination and the silence of hundreds of people is the most reddit thing ever.
I though the lesson Tesla learned/taught was that people wanted an electric car that doesn't look like an electric car. Truck buyers' sensibilities are even more conservative than luxury sedan buyers'--aluminum frame? I dunno about that.
Even if you don't like it you have to applaud the vision here. The vast majority of car companies are too afraid of getting out of the conformist design taste of the majority of people.
I grew up with GMC and Ford trucks in the mountains and in Texas (Texans love their trucks), and am in need of a truck (for towing, of which this has amazing specs with the mid and high end models) at the moment. I've been looking and looking not wanting to get taken advantage of, and had mostly settled on a few years old Tundra... but I love this thing, and also love the ATV, and so I am seriously considering this as my next vehicle purchase.
As a very security and privacy conscious person, my main quibble has been that I don't like drive by wire products. I don't want to get Michael Hastings'ed... but the fact is even the big truck companies are starting to get rid of mechanical throttle, so I might as well give up on that is how it feels.
What better way to merge my mountain man and hacker sides than with a Tesla truck. Now if I only had the money laying around... and I do think many of you underestimate how much in truck culture having something that looks different can be the biggest part of being "cool". I got more compliments on my Suzuki Samurai with a lift and 36ers than you would ever imagine. I blacked out a 91 YJ and also got nothing but compliments. This thing is going to do well, mark my words.
I prob won't go get a cord of wood in it, (I might) but that's what the old 84 beat up GMC camper special is for.
I understand what Tesla is doing here. Outer shell manufacturing cost is very low. No paint, minimal bending process. Just laser cut the material and it is ready to be mounted. If you want to manufacture something in a low resource environment ( like Mars ) it might be the clever move.
Yes. I suspect that production line will be designed to be built on Mars. Design of the car also looks like it is built for high dust environments (non-flat rooftop). Solar charging, shell with same material with Starship also supports this thesis.
I bet one of the key factors for this thing to be on the road safely was the development of some kind of unbreakable glass for the huge front window, so they "had to" make this new type of resistant glass. Some "yes man" at the upper management level must've decided to skip constrained material testing (Glass dissipates energy much differently when it is in a frame rather than just loose... pay close attention at the ball drop demo and you'll see the glass jump a few inches)
Better utility than a truck? Excuse me? 6.5' bed and you can't even reach over the sides to get stuff. No stake pockets or any apparent affordance for installation of racks in the bed either. However, I am a fan of a factory tonneau cover and what looks like a built-in ramp in the tailgate.
But there's no avoiding that the thing is just ugly as can be.
Frankly I'm just waiting for an all-electric replacement for the bigger Tacoma / smaller F150 niche. I don't want or need an 80s stainless steel wedge that can tow a 747. Rivian doesn't appear to be interested in that segment. Toyota isn't going to do it until 2025 at best. I was hoping Tesla might, but I'm not surprised that their first foray barely qualifies as a truck.
It's more powerful than a truck, better for the environment, has the capability of running tools without a generator, and is actually appealing to non-truck people -- you're right, it barely qualifies as a truck. And that's a good thing -- we need FAR less trucks in the world.
Not withstanding the grandeur of the truck, its unique look, and specs; I love Elon's composure following the somewhat failed glass test that broke both windows on the vehicle during the live unveiling.
That's a truck only if you consider a Subaru Baja a truck. If you want a real crack at the F-150's market share, it has to be usable for work. If you can't put a stack of plywood or drywall in the back and still have room for tools and a ladder, it's useless as a work truck. Will this thing even accept a ladder rack? Has a single person on the design team ever spent a single day working a blue collar job that requires a truck?
I don't know about the car market in the US enough but Tesla seems to be in the premium segment - are the trucks people buy for this kind of work in the price range of this thing ?
100% absolutely. See [1]. People spend an absolutely stupid amount on trucks - basically no one gets the base model and the average sale price for an F150 is north of $45k. It's one of the reasons Ford is focusing on the truck segment - the margins are way higher than for mass market sedans.
ye, Elon was sweating like crazy right after the blunder. I also thought the presentation could have been rehearsed a little bit better as the slides seem to be off most of the time (I assume Elon is just way too busy to rehearse these things).
This is how every Tesla presentation goes. It's never been about Steve Jobs level presentation polish, it's always been about the quality of the product.
I'm pretty sure Elon doesn't rehearse these presentations at all. He's had trivially-correctable wrong info on slides before, and had to explain it away during the presentation.
Hahaha... probably. I think it actually made the thing look a lot more bad-ass while he gave the rest of the presentation. I own a Tacoma (and have owned a few) and I've had my truck broken into quite often. Some places you don't even want to park because they're hot spots for getting your windows broken into (I'm looking at you Lombard Street). This will be a bit of a deterrent to thieves which is nice.
During the demo of transparent metal glass Elon invited Franz to hit the glass with metal ball and it broke. It wasn’t supposed to because it is extra hardened or something.
I’m surprised to see the positive comments about the design.. I saw this and the first thing I thought was: that’s the ugliest vehicle I’ve ever seen. No exaggeration.
She called him her "creator". Just an actress (Grimes) on video with weird almost-flailing gestures or was it an animated AI from a secret Elon project made in the likeness of Grimes?
Though the delivery could have been better, to me it feels like a "Welcome to Thunderdome" at https://youtu.be/0y3wE0pgXcM?t=201 where Elon is just living out his Mad Max dream. Love it.
I'm worried about being on the road with these. If they are as indestructable as suggested/demonstrated, it seems like everyone else on the road becomes the crumple zone for both vehicles. Perhaps the anti-dent is different from crumple zone considerations, but definitely a bit intimidating to share the road with.
I'm guessing the crumple zone on this is going to be better than a vehicle with an internal combustion engine! That and the fact that semis are everywhere. This being on the road doesn't worry me in the slightest given the other vehicles already out there.
So, from the comments here and elsewhere, it's a Marmite thing. A majority seem to hate the design but a significant minority absolutely loves it.
That doesn't look bad for sales. I'd rather have a group of enthusiasts that love the product, and a group of haters, than have everyone going "meh". Firstly because many of the enthusiasts will probably buy the product, and secondly because controversy is free advertising.
Personally I do like the aesthetics, although I'm not in the demographic that buys trucks.
The price point is incredibly low for the capacity and performance. Go price a high-end Ram/F-series/Chevy and be amazed that you can easily spend 65K on something you'd feel comfortable taking a date to dinner in. I was shocked by the first look, but the practicality is there. I'd buy one, if I wasn't in the "post-payoff" period of my SUV. If the incentives are there and fuel costs rise, I think I could convince my spouse.
The tall, angled side fins above the bed are a dealbreaker for me. Makes it too hard to reach in, also more awkward to climb into from the side by standing on a tire. It sucks that you wouldn't be able to rest anything horizontally on them without having it slide off. I'm curious as to how well it'll hold a rack: https://www.autoaccessoriesgarage.com/Truck-Racks-Van-Racks/.... I wonder if this will be another form > function, like with the Tesla Model X whose gull wing doors make it impossible to hold a roof rack.
This is nearly April fools joke level. Ignoring the individual aesthetic, it just stands in such stark contrast to the rest of the curved, sleek vehicles in their fleet.
Yes, the year must have been of some cyberpunk future, because the look is right from there.
I can't but notice how the "futuristic" car designs from my childhood are now pretty common in mass-produced cars. I suggest the recent sci-fi movie esthetics are going to be common soon enough, and this truck is an example.
Watching this was... cerebral. The impression I get is that Tesla made this truck because they wanted to, and they don't really care too much what people think of it.
I've got a truck (an older Tacoma) and too many hobbies that make it hard to give up, so I'll likely always have a truck.
If Tesla had introduced a factory version of Simone's, I'd be screaming at them to shut up and take my money.
This thing...I'm sorry, I can't get over the styling. I love the numbers, and don't even find the pricing to be too horrible, but there's no away I'll have something that looks like that. Maybe Tesla truck 2.0 will be worth looking at.
The branding and aesthetic of this truck is so untesla it is alarming. Trucks are very expensive nowadays so this could be good market for them. Especially if people buy them for the novelty. As far as actual work is concerned I feel that this will be roughed up very badly in no time, and being a unibody of sorts will present some problems and expense to repair. It’s pretty much the opposite of what you would want from a pure work standpoint. Something that is built more like an overgrown UTV would be better for Real work.
* Its capacity of 7,500+ lbs isn't too shabby. Not F150/1500 class. But Jeep Gladiator territory, which is another much-awaited domestic truck getting some attention.
* I'm assuming the 250+ mile range drops significantly when towing.
* When camped at sites serviced by electricity, it's often 30/50 amp service and unmetered. Good for recharging!
I'm unlikely to jump on board yet, but this is a beautiful experiment and there will be many trucking niche users watching!
Please don't be that EV owner that mooches off of "free" sockets. Or at least ask first. RV parks aren't expecting people to use $5-10 of electricity overnight, and they'll get upset at EV owners.
Just get the 200kwH model (my est for the 500 mi range), plug the RV into the truck, and go boondocking for a week with A/C, fridge, induction cooker, and no propane. Extra bonus if the truck supports charging from the 2kW array on the roof of the RV.
Maybe this is controversial, but I really like the aesthetic. It definitely has a futuristic, industrial cyberpunk vibe. I wouldn't call it "pretty", but it's distinctive.
This is the first mainstream security truck at an affordable price. The sales on this are going to be higher than anybody expects. Every rapper, drug dealer, and dirtbag politician that doesn't want to go out like Tupac will buy one. The weekend warriors who had to give up their Hummers will buy one. The Mexican/Colombian cartels will all drive them because it's already bullet resistant but with that power, it can easily be modded with an extra 1/4 inch plate. The regular folks who live in places where carjacking is common (Brazil, Venezuela, South Africa, etc.) will buy them. It's going to sell very, very well.
I wonder what it will look like when it is actually produced, doubt it passes US standards in it's current form. Needs some mirrors at the very least, although maybe at the time of release cameras will be a legal replacement.
Not sure why I would buy a Model Y. I love this thing. It feels safer, carries 6 people and is a full utility. And all of that with gorgeously edgy styling. Can we please move this up before the Model Y Tesla?
That thing looks like it would do a lot of damage if it hit a pedestrian. Aren't there regulations that are supposed to enforce designs that increase the survival chances of people hit by cars?
Quote from the website "You will be able to complete your configuration as production nears in late 2021. Tri Motor AWD production is expected to begin in late 2022."
Ya right, production starts in 2 years. I would guess 4 yrs and I know nothing about car production. But I do know that just getting the subcontractors in order will take more than a year even if you have an assembly line in place already. Why is Tesla so optimistic about timelines? It just hurts it's reputation when they are years late.
I'm not the one who would buy this as I live in Boston and drive a tiny car. But I thought it was really cool. Reminds me of futuristic cars from 80's action movies.
Is it a good idea to make it so shiny? Coupled with the slab sides, you get quite strong reflections. Could be annoying at best to other drivers and potentially dangerous.
I was looking for an electric truck to buy and was hoping this Cybertruck would be a replacement, but I think I’ll stick with my gas sipping sedan for awhile longer after seeing this announcement.
I’ll wait for the next iterations or a better alternative offered by the competition. I just can’t see myself driving this “box.” Reminds me of those early 90s SUVs, but like 10x uglier.
Specs are impressive but I just can’t get over the aesthetics.
I love the new look and am curious about if the exoskeleton has crumple points to reduce the kinetic energy imparted to the passengers during a collision.
Yeah by the way which is the biggest news, the truck or the ATV?
Or both?
Personnally I would by wildy interested by the Tesla ATV and less by the truck
Personally I like cars with rough edges like this. But there's a reason no one except for Lamborghini is building low-polygon cars: It's pretty inefficient aerodynamically.
But this looks like just an early concept. Those always look much more spectacular than the final, real-world version where physics and laws need to be respected. We can probably expect it to end up looking a bit more round and less exciting.
I think this product, tesla cybertruck, is a good display of "function is form". Usually people preface "function over form" or "form over function". But in this case, the functionality of this truck solves the reason to have a truck REALLY WELL.
The form of the truck comes from being a very practical, efficient use of a truck.
Form has been getting seeping into "aesthetics", which is good and all, but is that really where it should go? Sure, it's nice to look at something pretty, but why not have some cases where form fits the functionality perfectly.
I think this is a good implementation of mending the two practices into one harmonious product where function and form balances each other out.
Function: strong outer body, powerful, and everything serves a purpose.
Form: tesla's well-known low-drag design, probs makes manufacturing simpler (not easier per say, but simpler), etc.
I can't think of all the reasonings of functions and forms, but I just think this cybertruck would be super useful to have in particular blue-collar jobs.
I feel like we're going through a similar phase as the 50's where all American cars had huge flarings that had no purpose, but they had aesthetic value. This thing is too much style for the sake of style. In some ways, it is cool - use aesthetics to market to masses, change the world - one gas guzzler at a time.
I'm reminded of top gear's Geoff [1]. It's that concept car angularity that makes you believe that it could be manufactured in a shed, if only it had a frame.
I think the main point here is that electric cars (being simpler and having few parts) also cater to extremely versatile designs. I wonder how far they could gog away from the classic truck design within allowed regulations (like, a shorter front, different positioning etc). Clearly aesthetics are not a concert here.
The design might be intentional. Knowing that they would not be able to fulfill all orders of a beautiful Cybertruck, this might be a smart move. Reduces number of potential orders, proves a EV pick-up truck point, and sets an extreme price baseline, which for other manufacturers could be very hard to reach.
I suspect that over the next 6 months to a year, everyone will want this truck. They think it is awful right now. They are shocked. This will change. People are going to start asking the automotive industry for the future. I was disgusted yesterday. I'm interested in this vehicle today.
The unpainted steel of the DeLorean made it a pain in the ass to repair. You can't pull dents, apply body filler and repaint, you basically need a whole new panel if you want to restore damage.
The part of the demo that was actually impressive was the part where they took sledgehammers to the body panels and didn't leave dents. I think it'll be fine.
It looks like it was designed by a guy who makes rockets — and it was. I admire the chutzpah to make something that looks so different than what is selling, but it seems like the kind of "futuristic" that would be made from cardboard in a sixth-grade "back to the Future" theater performance. It's easy to see what's cool about it, but it's somehow very immature.
Though I admit the longer I've looked at it, the more neutral I feel about it, but maybe that's just a personality defect.
Elon said in advance he doesn't care if people don't like how it looks, so clearly he anticipated some negative feedback about the look. I can see it in a lot of scenarios, but just not in my driveway.
Entirely flat metal panels tend to be rather disappointing mechanically... Tap on them and they'll sound like a drum... I forsee major issues with noise from the body panels fluttering in the wind at high speeds, or just being noisy as rain hits it.
I am so excited by the Cybertruck. I drive a Toyota minivan now and my lease is up in the fall of 2021 so the timing is perfect. To me this is the perfect minivan alternative and my husband is thrilled with the hauling capacity, plus the specs. Fun to drive, big range and looks cool (but I could not care less what it looks like since I drive a minivan now!)and the price is the real hook. No gas needed six seater electric truck that drives like a Porsche? Sold. So you can get the truck market but also the minivan market. That’s huge. And my family skis and snowboards so it’s perfect for going to the mountains. Total all purpose vehicle for an active family. What is not to love?
I absolutely love this truck's design. I really wonder (and worth noting because no one else has yet) how much the aerodynamics played into the aesthetics. The coefficient of drag on this thing is probably great because of the truck's profile. The trailing edge comes to a point to reduce vortices / separation of flow (and thus drag), which would have a significant impact on range. I find it funny because the profile is very similar to that of an older Prius, which actually had excellent aerodynamics compared to any other car at the time. Obviously this thing would eat a Prius for a snack, and I wouldn't be surprised if cybertruck has a better Cd.
I've been waiting for this announcement so I could decide on the next truck I buy. In terms of specs, it's pretty good. In terms looks, it's terrible. I was hoping Tesla would put out a vehicle to be top of the list, they failed.
From the side, the pickup initially looks downright weird. But I think in three dimensions, it looks astonishing and brilliant. But the thing that really gets me is the 3+3 seating. We've got two sets of twins, and I drive one of the very few cars on the road with 3+3 seating, a Fiat Multipla. It just works for big families. To some it's the ugliest car on the road, but to me that car goes all the way around to beautiful, and no one denies its practicality. Whenever I see another one we almost always wave to each other. Hey, beauty is all in the beholder, and the Tesla looks great. I'd love an estate/Station wagon even more.
Regardless of its power, that is the ugliest car design I’ve ever seen. Seeing it in the stage in video after the renders on the website made it even worse. Nerds may think it’s cool, but I doubt you’ll catch many people riding around in it.
From a distance you can sort of see what the were going for, but looking at it up close it's dumb ugly. I imagine they thought they were being clever and minimal with the straight lines and utter lack of subtlety, but the result is just clunky and inept. It's like a child's crude drawing, and the fact that adults actually made this is absurd. It reminds me of TARS from Interstellar, which is another design people inexplicably praised.
I probably hate this even more for the fact that I adore the angular Fiero/Lambo/DeLorean/Blade Runner aesthetic. This is such a poorly botched, cluelessly literal interpretation of that.
I'm not a car or truck person.. so forgive the ignorance.. but is it rear wheel only? The `Drivetrain: REAR-WHEEL DRIVE` section has me perplexed for a number of reasons.
1. I thought Teslas where all wheel? Ie, the nature of how they work is such that each wheel was a motor. Is that not the case for this one?
2. Isn't all-wheel a valuable offering? This doesn't seem to be an off-road focused vehicle.. but nevertheless I personally value all wheel. Am I wrong in this?
I find this weird. I can't afford it anyway, BUT, I have often joked that I need a small Tesla truck to replace my Prius. However, strangely nothing about this interests me. Even if I had the money.
That roof will not work very well in areas with snow. You're going to spend an hour cleaning off the snow and ice. In my region a hefty fine is in store for anyone who does not clear snow and ice from their vehicle roof.
Why do you say that? With the slope and adjustable suspension I'd think it'd be easier-- you just lower the truck and brush the snow down in a few swoops.
Snow sticks it's not always like magic light fluffy movie snow. And ice can seem like it's been welded on. Plus it looks like a very long reach to get to it.
I drive a Dodge 2500 4x4 and my roof is 1/3 the size of that beast. And it's 6'6" high which makes it awkward to be able to remove ice. If ice flies off and hits another vehicle while I am driving I am in big trouble, and rightly so.
Form over factor = endearingly ugly. I can see the narrative for a simple aerodynamic wedge eventually changing public sentiment. Basically the modernist argument against decoration. If this actually ends up being a solid workhorse, the same energy efficiency and fragile masculinity arguments that shamed humvee owners might also work against frou-frou status symbol pickup trucks. That said the bedrail is high AF so I don't even know if this design is practical. I assume there's some sort hood and winch int he front, and mounts for lights / accessories that would ruin the profile.
I wonder how a design like this stacks up when taking pedestrian safety into consideration. Of course, with self driving safety features you could argue it should never hit a pedestrian.
The video link stopped working halfway through for me, but that design isn't final, right? Looks like an early prototype for integration testing- that angular look can't be what it'll actually ship like?
Most people who have trucks rarely use them for things a car or suv couldn't do. I think the range limitations when towing and other limitations probably won't hurt sales because people who have to do serious long distance towing wouldnt consider a tesla anyway. The cybertruck will be used as a big car by most people most of the time. As long as it is able to maintain the aspirational marketing properties of other trucks it should do well in the US. Plus it has the chicken tax on its side.
... and I'm just sitting here wondering if the rims really are not round (as it's interlock the tire design seems to indeed indicate), and why on earth one would do that?
I'm not up to speed with US regulations, but the design seems very dangerous for pedestrian collisions. A sharp and hard shell must be very harmful, even at low speeds.
Ugliness aside, I wonder if the onboard electrical outlets will allow it to be used as emergency power for a fridge / sump pump in case of a power outage.
This seems to be the electric version of the hummer. Not a practical replacement to actual pickup trucks, but a lot of coolness factor for people who want it.
Ya'll joke, but I don't suspect they are going to make/sell a lot of these and if Tesla goes under in the near future these things will skyrocket in value.
If you really want to bet against Tesla, buy one of these and wait for Tesla to fold. No one will ever make anything like this again.
I could even imagine them only making a few hundred of these and them all being worth a million dollars after the company collapses.
I don't think this is a legit new model by Tesla. Do you really think they wouldn't have properly tested their "shatter-proof" windows before a global unveil? And fail twice?
This is a really well orchestrated publicity stunt designed to boost the stock price. They calculated that even the failed shatter proof windows wouldn't matter much in public opinion because the car itself is so ugly.
Is it just me who is a bit wary of the sports car claims?
Acceleration is going to be impressive and CoG will be lower than for similar vehicles but likely much higher than say for a BMW M2 or similar sporty car, so cornering isn't likely to be anywhere near as good which coupled with the extra weight, it seems that this will be good for a pick up truck but no competition for a car in a circuit.
Given how homogenous the last 20 years of automotive design has been I'm really impressed by Tesla's willingness to do something so radically different.
Jobs understood the power of great design: Conceiving a product that people don't know they want until you show them. Not normally a big fan of Musk or Tesla, but this feels like one of those products. It feels like the future.
It will be interesting to see just how useful the bed is. Angled sides are usually a non-starter for a work truck. Also, if this is supposed to be a bug-out vehicle, how do you charge it when it’s bugged-out?
Anyway, the design is certainly getting people talking. We’ll have to wait and see if Ford and Chevy have any response to this in terms of how their design language changes.
Even worse the first trials against the conventional door were partly sideways, where the dead blow hammer just functions like a regular hammer or worse depending on area size of impact with P=F/A.
The renders on their site are exceptionally bad. They don't even look quite like renders, rather hand-made sketches with textures applied on top. The design of the truck is not that bad and I bet the car would look fantastic in real life and on real photos, with all the minor detail, reflections and the feel of the real material, that is now missing.
So weird that people take the design here personally. This thing looks FUN. It seems just as ridiculous looking as an F-350 to me, and more practical than a Hummer.
This is what I imagine a luxury vehicle looking like post zombie apocalypse. Most of the world falls apart, but the 1% create disconnected suburban paradises and this is what you drive to get between them.
Something I haven't seen mentioned much is that this is going to be one of the only cars on the market that you can fix the exterior on with plate-steel and a welder. In terms of apocalyptic vehicles, this is amazing. Also, in terms of me fucking hating curvy bullshit that nobody can work on without special tools... I really like it.
This design is just strange. When the Model S was introduced, Tesla specifically stated that it was designed to look like high-end luxury/sports cars instead of following the funky/future design that hybrids always had until.
Interesting that they reversed it with this truck, and I wonder how it'll affect the market of potential truck buyers.
I kind of love it. Seems to hit the mark on price, range, capability, size.
Would personally only want a van version, or possibly just the ability to take out the second seats and barrier. Would be great then for urban travel and camping.
Also would love to learn more about the engineering trade-offs in their exoskeleton structure over traditional frame on body designs.
Ever since that cement bridge collapsed at Florida International University a few months ago on top of cars, I've been wondering if any type of car could withstand the force of such a scenario.
Anyone know if this truck could withstand the scenario? Hopefully someone smart with the Physics or Engineering can help me out with an answer.
Anyone knows how the laser lighting works on stage. The effect looks like the light beam has a start/end and can move, similar to a lightsaber. e.g. around -44minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZbVixSkgu0
Does anyone else see a problem in giving virtually indestructible (or at least much more so than any other car) in the hands of typical "truck driver" or is it just me ? I can just picture a dumbass in this truck on the highway not giving two shits about other cars around him. I dont like this picture.
It certainly doesn't fit in with current car aesthetics that try to mimic something like a bulging piece of muscle with a face. It's like straight out of the future we were hoping for in the 80's, where machines were cold, hard steel and not mushy plastic. Has Arnold Schwarzenegger preordered one?
Reminds me of an old game I used to play where you drove around a blocky vehicle with a similar shape. Now I can't stop trying to think of the name of it.
EDIT: Was the link changed right after posting? Everyone's talking about a failed glass demo with Elon and all I'm seeing is photos of an odd looking truck.
This looks extremely dangerous. It looks like it could mow down a whole
sidewalk full of people if the driver made a wrong turn.
So I guess this one won't be marketed for its safety and its ability reduce
traffic deaths, like the Teslas with Autopilot. Or will this also have
Autopilot? That sounds even worse somehow.
Cybertruck is built with an exterior shell made for ultimate durability and passenger protection. Starting with a nearly impenetrable exoskeleton, every component is designed for superior strength and endurance, from Ultra-Hard 30X Cold-Rolled stainless-steel structural skin to Tesla armor glass.
I appreciate the vaporwave aesthetic. I like that it was given space to be designed by someone passionate and not a design by committee - appeal to the masses blob. Unfortunately what they came up with is crap. I'm worried this will kill off any further vaporwave designs because it is so bad.
In fashion nothing is new and everything is born again. I love this..
Elon prefaced it best by stating the inspiration was early 007. How amazing a large-scale mfg can do such a thing. How dare Ford, Cadillac, etc waver from their aesthetic. It's possible for Elon and he does it.
Just emphasizing the fact that the top end has a 0-60 in sub seconds is INSANE. My model 3 is just a base model and is crazy quick, this is 40% faster than that! Imagine being in a 2019 Porsche and get smoked off the line by this giant industrial crazy hunk of metal.
This announcement eclipsed the previously-announced Bollinger Motors products (https://bollingermotors.com/). These were intriguing but the price ($125k) is a bit eye popping.
It’s kind of cool and I like that it looks very different. But do we really need more super heavy, huge and expensive vehicles on the road? It would be much better if they put their efforts into something small, efficient and affordable and made that cool.
Does a general public really needs bulletproof cars with unbreakable windows? What if there's a traffic accident and passengers are caught inside, how do you get them out? (assuming you don't have a handy metal ball laying around somewhere :P)
Put a new ski-doo in the back and that’s a sick rig! After living through so many rusted out car bodies I was in to the aluminum f150s but stainless steel is even better. No paint to worry about scratching up on narrow deactivates logging roads.
I find this looks goofy, but other than the lack of physical buttons inside, this is a dream vehicle for me. Most weekends I want to drive 4 people + 4 mountain bikes a 120 mile round trip including fast highway and rough mountain roads.
I quite like the Paul Verhoeven '80s angular action movie aesthetic in general, but this just looks bad. The proportions are all off. I thought it was a joke and they were going to bring out the actual truck at some point.
so assuming Elon launchs one of these into space heading for mars in the near future, will this thing drive on mars? Does the air pressurization system, super rugged shell, and ATV make this thing ideal for life as a martian?
The overall feeling of this truck's design transports me back to when I was a small boy dreaming up my ideal adventure vehicle and drawing it out in my school notebooks.
It makes me want one just to satisfy my inner child. :)
Two things just occurred to me:
1) The built in air compressor is so it can maintain cabin pressure in space.
2) The shape might have some optimum cylindrical packing arrangement for starship's cargo bay.
Curious why there isn't a Founders Series on this car -- full prepayment (on a loaded config) for first-in-line position, which helps them with cashflow (a major issue for Tesls).
Everyone thought this thing was a joke and waiting for the real truck reveal esp after all the laughing and smashing of the windows. Next day all of us wants one.
It’s the frikkin Batmobile! I want one. I will never actually buy one because a) $$$ and b) I live in a city with small roads. But it looks awesome. No
their demo of it reminded me of some of Apple's product demos when things didn't "just work" like Apple likes to brag that they do. Steve Jobs actually made them funny to watch. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-50513294
It is amazing how weird and poorly produced these things are. The cheesy outfits, the terrible lighting, the window demo failure. Its like they go out of their way to cut corners and look unprofessional to strike some kind of authenticity note. Like, obviously they're not faking the demo, or the windows wouldn't have broken. And the mumbling fumble/botched-transition to the ATV...
VH1 interns could produce a better event than this.
Given Tesla has axed their capex to almost nothing due to their liquidity crunch it is highly unlikely this ever gets built. Same with the semi truck.
These “Product” unveils are designed to pull in cash deposits to fund current expenses and massive cash incineration, not future development.
This will likely never be built and if you are thinking of giving Tesla a deposit for anything they currently are not producing I implore you to look at Tesla’s balance sheet.
I get wanting something that looks different, but difference just for difference's sake is no virtue.
I think if I had to render the term "alt-right" in vehicular form, it would look something like this. It seems to me an disturbingly accurate reflection of our polarized times.
So you're saying it's "too alt-right", right? Isn't the alt-right also the group that doesn't believe in climate change? So they'd never adopt an electric vehicle based on its virtue of being electric. What if the vehicle is made specifically to appeal to them, though, and just happens to also be electric?
I don't know whether your premise is correct or not, but if it is, this might be genius.
> "alt-right" in vehicular form, it would look something like this
Strange, I thought the alt-right meme was that brutalist design was a Marxist demoralisation psy-op; surely an alt-right design would be more akin to the Beetle (as partly conceptualised by Hitler).
I'm thinking they go more Futurist than Socialist. And if they did fall for a style they previously claimed to despise, well, it wouldn't be the first time they were caught in a contradiction.
That being said, as this truck is not made out of concrete, I'm not sure the brutalist label applies. ;-)
the car would look 70% better if they remove a triangle of steel between the bowl and the end of the roof. i think i am warming up to the design after seeing more pics in better lighting.
All of the aesthetic stuff aside, the high sides next to the bed make it completely useless as an actual pickup truck. This is what it looks like when a bunch of people who have never done manual labor in their lives designs a truck.
As a pickup it looks worthless, as a futuristic military transport that checks off a bunch of my childhood fantasies I wish I could afford one but at more than a year's gross income... sigh.
I laughed at the Model Y unveil, but looking at this I am experiencing "Sam Neill 'In the Mouth of Madness' " paroxysms of laughter. What an ugly hunk of garbage.
I don’t even need a truck, I am driving a Prius Prime (32 miles battery + gas tank) today and I want to buy this.
The look, the specs, the design of the website, I love it all!
The edges are way too sharp for EU regulations I guess. Don’t think this model will be allowed in the EU. Sharp edges like these do more harm on collision.
You can also add that to this type of audience which pretty much sums up what the technical bias of a typical HN reader/commenter really is.
So far it is more like all things:
Linux, Rust, AMD, ThinkPads, Elon Musk, Rick and Morty, Stanford, MIT, Web-Tech, Stripe Design, Mr Robot, Space Travel, Kubernetes, Data Structures and Algorithms, and now Telsa.
Lots of interesting comments and perspectives in this thread, from the judgmental "trucks are stupid" group (typically outside the US) to "this thing is ugly" reactionaries and everything in between. This is what I love (and hate) about HN. Yet, if you stop and use it as stimulus for though, HN turns out to be a good way to force you to reevaluate your mental models...sometimes.
My first reaction to this truck was along the lines of "this is the very definition of ugly". From there it moved to "well, that was stupid" (the glass). And, slowly, once past the shock, it morphed into "it seems to have lots of practical features". Now I want to see one in person and explore it a bit.
A few random thoughts:
We are in the market to purchase two vehicles within the next, say, 12 months, with one of them likely in the next four months or less. We thought we would go electric...until the fires here in California caused us to rethink things.
Simple issue: The infrastructure for conventional vehicles is ubiquitous. You don't even have to think about the availability of energy at all. Simple example, yesterday one of our cars was down to 7 miles of range left in the fuel tank. This wasn't a big deal at all. There are easily twenty gas stations within that driving distance, if not more. And topping-off takes ten minutes or less total time.
From my perspective, and some might disagree, at the current time the weakest point of any electric vehicle, Tesla or otherwise, is the --and I think I can use this word-- fact that they cannot be relied upon during emergencies. The infrastructure isn't mature and ubiquitous enough to match the degree of reliance one can place on IC vehicles. If your life and that of your family depends on being able to travel, electric vehicles are a bad idea.
Because of this we went from really wanting to transition in to electrics (we even installed a 13 kW solar system in preparation for this transition) to now thinking timing isn't quite right.
A brief comment for those disparaging the "American obsession with large vehicles". I'll just say you likely lack context. I don't own a truck, I've always been as sports car guy. I've probably owned more sports cars than anything else. However, most (all) US cities are very different from European cities. There are no problems with the size of roads, all the way down to business districts and neighborhoods. I've traveled all over Europe and other parts of the world. And, yes, in a lot of the cities and towns I have visited US-style SUV's and trucks would make no sense whatsoever.
Don't think Americans are ignorant or less sophisticated because they are buying SUV's and trucks. If they were not practical there wouldn't be a market for them. It's the same for what we call minivans --not sure if the same term is used in Europe. We have a Toyota Sienna with 220,000 miles on it. We bought it new. It is incredibly practical in the context of family life, home renovations, dealing with our three German Shepherd dogs, going to the lake, going camping, loading it up with friends and family for travel. Form follows function AND needs, and in the US trucks and SUV --large and small-- exist because they are practical, useful and deliver value.
Sure, it is disconcerting to see just one person effectively commuting in a truck. The perspective here is that not everyone is a software engineer, most people have limited financial resources and they can't buy both an efficient small "green-er" vehicle and the truck or SUV they need for family and home use. So, again, they make a choice based on form, function and needs, and if a truck, minivan or SUV make sense, well, that's what they buy, and that's what they drive every day.
Back to Tesla...
One possible perspective on this is that of what I am generally going to put under the umbrella of fiduciary responsibility.
One could rightly argue that coming out with something like this is a breach of that responsibility to investors. Tesla has excellent technology and could become a massive company. The truck market can support millions of units per year in sales just in the US (about 2.5 to 3 million per year). This radical design is, from that perspective, irresponsible. It will capture a very, very small percentage of the 250,000+ trucks per month sold on average in the US. It's a shocker, like the Hummer, but it isn't going to make a dent on overall truck sales. If anything it might signal that Elon isn't interested in growing Tesla beyond a certain level.
These are not decisions you make if you want to beat the other guys at their own game (or even redefine the game). In an industry where historical P/E ratios are in the 10 to 15 range, Tesla will eventually have to face that hard cold reality. Sure, today investors ignore this but, at the end of the day, when everyone is making electric cars and batteries, Tesla might not be able to escape the fact that it will be just another car company. In that context, I think this truck might be an irresponsible waste of an important competitive advantage.
Two of the worst things you can waste in life are time and trust. This offering is guaranteed to waste a ton of time. Years. And trust also. Anyone who wants a "real" or, let's just say "traditional" truck is going to ignore Tesla and assume they are just crazy. There are 250,000 people making a decision to buy a truck EVERY MONTH, and the VAST majority of them are going to laugh at Tesla and move on. It will be year, maybe even a decade, before anyone looks at Tesla as a serious truck company. So, yeah, time and trust wasted, unnecessarily.
I need to see this Tesla thing (that would have been a good name "Thing") but I don't think I am buying one. Next iteration, perhaps.
So my hypothesis is the people who buy stupidly oversized pickup trucks (which generally speaking aren't going to be the people on this site btw) are either crazy gun people, trailer _____, or people who seriously are trying to prove something. For all of these people it's about making a very large very visible and very obnoxious over the top statement. Really can't see how any of that demographic either wants anything "cyber" (although again this site is the wrong place to be making this argument) or anything that isn't just "in your face over the top MACHO". If you imagine the Cybertruck in wood, it looks like a cheap Pinewood derby car. The design looks like something a 3rd grader came up with. It should be redesigned to: a) have an obnoxiously loud (yet completely unnecessary) ENGINE sound; b) have an incredibly obnoxious front grill that emphasizes absolute dominance; c) a bed in the back that's open to the elements (because no one carries stuff there anyway, and being open to the elements is tough); d) be about 3x the size. Nobody wants a pinewood derby car masquerading as a truck imho. I think this will be a huge flop.
Perhaps they intentionally made it ugly so no one would buy this because they can't really produce that many. In the years to come, they'll have expanded manufacturing plus beta tester feedback so they can release one that looks nice. Genius.
This is what happens when an Aztec mates with a Delorean. This is the biggest boondoggle, maybe ever. The Reliant Robin has more charisma than this thing.
A lot of people are talking about how it looks awesome. I guess they've done their market research to target the audience that wants this. It's looks like 1980s sci-fi threw up and I think it looks terrible for appealing to most of the general population.
They'll probably make their money off of it (with tax subsidies, which is still keeping most of Musk's enterprises afloat .. so we're all paying for it, sadly), but it's because they target the demographic clearly represented in a lot of these comments.
Personally, I think the design looks awful and terrible. I don't even really like the current Tesla with their terrible UI, stupid "touch-screen-everything" and lack of tactile buttons. But whatever, I'm sure it will sell.
What pisses me of inexplicably is Tesla / elon cuck intentionally showing failures is this some bizzare form of marketing? I believe it certainly is. They should know the strength of their windows and acting like it was a surprise is retarded
This is a design abomination and a colossal mistake. Like many, I've been a fan of Tesla from the beginning because of the beautiful and tantalizing design language which was backed up with mind boggling performance. It made you aspire for the vehicle. Why would Tesla mess with that formula? This truck is horrendous, an absolute beast. This looks like a high school science project gone bad. I actually thought the whole thing was a joke and I was waiting for Elon to smash it with the sledge hammer at the end to reveal a prince of a vehicle underneath a frog skin. It never happened and I was speechless. Yes, the features and specs were in keeping with Tesla's awe-inspiring tradition. But, I can't say the same for the design. Elon, we're all human beings and we make mistakes. Please fix and re-do. Your company reputation and survival depend on this. I am utterly shocked and extremely disappointed.
Unlike any other previous Tesla, or for that matter any other previous electric car, this is a reasonable value proposition. Everyone is so busy panning the looks they are overlooking the utility of this truck. Even the Model 3 is expensive compared to its peers at $35k. This this is priced competitive with non-electric trucks, heck, it's priced extremely well versus electric trucks. A 6 seat truck with a 6.5 foot truck bed and a 3500 pound capacity for $40k is genuinely competitive with GM/ Ford, likewise $50k for a 4WD truck which tows 14k pounds is absolutely reasonable. Unless you are regularly driving more than 250 miles per day, being able to charge at home is way better than filling up at gas stations.
> Unless you are regularly driving more than 250 miles per day, being able to charge at home is way better than filling up at gas stations.
There's no way the Tesla truck gets 250 miles when loaded up with 3500 pounds or hauling a trailer. It's very unclear if the range is sufficient if you use this truck like an actual truck where you need those things. Similarly if you are using this as a work truck there's some poor design choices involved here, too. Like the inability to access the bed from the sides of the vehicle. Or the non-flat roof complicating roof racks or additional lighting.
This appears to be more of a "lifestyle" truck than a "work" truck, and in that market how important are the extra cargo pounds or trailer capacity?
Work trucks are those plain white base model trucks with steel wheels and plastic interiors. You get them cheap and they will basically approve anyone for cheap financing of a few trucks through their business. Nobody is catering to those buyers when they design a truck. You look at those things on the lot and they look like one of the nicer trucks except only partially assembled.
The $50k trucks are basically for suburban dads. They used to drive luxury sedans while their wives drove minivans. Now the dads drive trucks that have replaced the minivan and the moms drive luxury SUVs. Trucks need to fit 6+ people, have nice interiors and enough space for hauling kids' sports gear and Home Depot stuff on the weekends. The Cybertruck is perfect for this segment. Fits 6 people, has plenty of hauling capacity and will take down a Ferrari in the 1/4 mile.
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Let's be honest, this truck won't replace Chevy/Ram/Ford trucks on work sites. This truck will primarily be used to haul mountain bikes, soccer equipment and the occasional run to Home Depot.
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> in that market how important are the extra cargo pounds or trailer capacity?
Not really important. What's important is that it _look_ like it can haul stuff. Like most Ford F-1-2-whatevers, Rams and other pickups, most of the time they're empty and car-wash clean.
I actually like the looks of the Tesla pickup. It's about time they went more avant-garde with their designs. This is supposed to be the future, dammit, Mr Musk's other company makes spaceships. Why NOT futuristic cars instead of Lexus look-alikes?
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Watch Tesla come out with a trailer which includes extra batteries and maybe even torque... hahah
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Gas truck ranges go down when hauling too.
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250 is the range of the base model. The top end model doubles that.
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You don't get anywhere near rated milage/ range on a normal truck when hauling loads either. The truth is even for work trucks, most trucks spend 80+% of the time lightly loaded or empty.
The issue with lumber racks and the apparent inability to haul larger items is a much bigger concern for "Work Trucks".
I see this as something which I can haul 3-4 friends and their bikes up to the trailhead in (or skiing/ camping/ fishing) and it seems pretty reasonably set up for that.
Bed will be used to hold soccer ball.
BTW, you're ignoring potentially huge cost savings with gas. Trucks are notoriously gas guzzling, many people spending 2-500 a month in gas. Cost would drop dramatically if you could plugin every night and wake up with a full 'tank'.
Trucks are gas guzzlers as compared to gas sedans. There’s no reason an electric truck of similar utility wouldn’t be similarly an electricity guzzler without making some sacrifices. The only benefit is that all-electric brings significant torque improvements even at low horsepower, but with modern turbochargers low-rpm torque has long been solved (my 2.0T sedan can tow!) and people won’t stop “horsepower shopping” just because the torque numbers are high as it’s mainly for bragging rights anyway.
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Eh, doesn't have to be this way. What we need are smaller, lighter trucks; this message seems to have been missed by Ford who have released a new Ranger that's bigger than the F150 used to be.
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This isn't something I'm ignoring, not having to deal with fuel ups and maintenance is one of the big reasons I've wanted to buy an electric car for several years. But every time I've priced a Tesla in the past, the premium for electric has been too high for me. That's what really caught my eye about this.
If this had been available 3 years ago when I bought my truck it would have been an instant purchase. As it is, I'm likely to sell my current truck and buy this when it comes out.
12000 miles a year at 13mpg and 2.5$ gas is $2308 per year. With a 5 year ownership time you are saving only [$11500-charging electricity costs]. So mid range $57000 AWD becomes $45500. Still pricey for most people.
I'd rather them come out with totally utilitarian bare bones truck but with the range and basic capabilities for $25K or so. THAT would be a game changer in the SUV/Truck space.
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I didn't like the looks of this thing when I saw it, probably because it looks so different.
But after appreciating all the awesome engineering that went into it, I find myself loving the scifi look. Finally a vehicle designed for geeks like me. I had always thought it sad that stainless steel vehicles never caught on. Here's my chance, and built from the same material as a space ship, that's icing on the cake. This is for sure my next vehicle.
> Even the Model 3 is expensive compared to its peers at $35k.
I thought I read around a track, the Model 3 gives a BMW M3 (which is $60k-$80k) a run for its money.
The $35k model 3 does not.
The model 3 performance holds it's own.. for two laps until it reduces power for being too hot.
Still super impressive but if you're a track die-hard and have the money, it looks like the new Porsche EV will have a leg up there.
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Not if you have to do a number of laps, though. Heat issues, etc. - the M3 is nearly track ready off the lot, the Tesla is really just a luxury car that happens to go fast from time to time.
Is the base Model 3 giving the BMW M3 a run for its money, or a higher end Model 3?
Regardless, the M3 isn't exactly the pinnacle of bang-for-your-buck speed. You are paying a big premium on the BMW for fit & finish which is miles ahead of the Model 3.
But when I wrote about the pricing on the Model 3 I was thinking more in terms of utility, not pure performance. If the job to be done is driving to work, the M3 isn't the car I'm looking at. It's the Honda Civic.
The towing capacity is as follows for the Tesla truck, 2WD $39K=7K lbs, 2Motor AWD $49K = 10K lbs and 3Motor AWD $69K = 14K lbs
When I’m hauling around a 10,000 pound airstream trailer on highways that 500 miles becomes 250 and 250 becomes 125 on flat land. Now consider going uphill on mountains and the range drops even more. There’s a real possibility of being stranded with no place left to charge in the middle of nowhere where I could be easily killed without anyone even knowing.
> I could be easily killed without anyone even knowing.
Well, that escalated quickly.
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I don't think it's as extreme as you're making it seem. Going uphill on mountains means you're going downhill which not only doesn't use power but regenerates power to the battery. It's obviously not insignificant of a cost but adding a trailer doesn't immediately halve the usable range.
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Towing puts a toll on any vehicle's gas mileage, and you can run out of gas in a normal truck too. Tesla's have range indicators built in and let you know how far you are from the nearest charging station. Turns out people who are traveling pay at least a little attention to vehicle range, particularly when hauling a load. This isn't unique to electric vehicles, regular trucks fuel economy goes way down with a load as well and gas stations are often few and far between in the mountains.
Several of Musk's numbers don't add up. No pickup has a bed capacity of 3500 pounds. That's 1.75 tons. Even full sized US pickups top out at 3/4 ton, unless they're super duty which adds greatly to weight and lowers MPG painfully. A 1.75 ton load, especially raised as high up as shown in this prototype, would flip the truck in the slightest of turns. 3500 is surely a fake number.
Second, this is going to be a very heavy truck, 6000 pounds or more. No truck with thick stainless steel body panels can weigh less than 5500 pounds. How that much weight can deliver 250 to 500 miles of range... sounds like fantasy #2. Apparently Musk is imagining that battery technology will advance a lot before this thing ships. Or he's just making stuff up.
Finally, the claim that the bed will extend to the ground to form a useful ramp. Nah. These folks have never lived with a pickup. No object heavier than a bicycle is going to make it up that 45 degree incline and into the bed without crashing into the cab before it can stop, especially given the polished floor of the demo truck. That's fantasy #3. No telling how much more reality distortion lies beneath that funky exterior.
> Several of Musk's numbers don't add up.
If they don't, then they will need to be revised before release and we can discuss them at that time.
> No pickup has a bed capacity of 3500 pounds.
Nonsense. Super Duty trucks have payload capacities up to 7,850 lbs. Even a ford F150 with a V6 has a capacity near a ton and they only go up from there. https://www.fordf150blog.com/2019-f-150-towing-and-payload-c...
> How that much weight can deliver 250 to 500 miles of range... sounds like fantasy #2.
This falls into the category of put up or shut up. Tesla has bad track record of hitting deadlines, but a really good track record of hitting their range estimates. If they don't hit 250 miles on the base model, we're sure to hear about it when it's launched.
> Finally, the claim that the bed will extend to the ground to form a useful ramp. Nah. These folks have never lived with a pickup.
If you don't see the value in being able to tilt the truck bed then you've clearly never used a pickup to it's capacity.
I've bought 4 major appliances lately and hauled several tons of lumber, concrete, & gravel. Even without the ramps, Being able to tilt the bed down to unload the truck sounds like a fucking godsend to me. Particularly for loose loads and lumber where it would act a bit like a dump truck.
> A 1.75 ton load, especially raised as high up as shown in this prototype, would flip the truck in the slightest of turns.
The battery in this truck is probably incredibly heavy, which really moves the center of mass down. The suspension is also computer controlled, and at high loads you could lower the vehicle to be closer to the ground. Carrying 3500 pounds off road isn't a good idea even if the vehicle can corner so you don't need the clearance.
Actually I think your overestimating the total weight, but it goes to the above point when you say
> Second, this is going to be a very heavy truck, 6000 pounds or more.
> Musk is imagining that battery technology will advance a lot before this thing ships
Unlikely, more likely he is just planning on putting a lot of battery in it. Unlike you, Musk has lots of engineers working on this and has a pretty damn good idea of what is possible.
Pickup trucks are ideal for packing a lot of battery, lots of space along the bottom to do so.
> Finally, the claim that the bed will extend to the ground to form a useful ramp. Nah. These folks have never lived with a pickup. No object heavier than a bicycle is going to make it up that 45 degree incline and into the bed without crashing into the cab before it can stop, especially given the polished floor of the demo truck. That's fantasy #3. No telling how much more reality distortion lies beneath that funky exterior.
ROFL - you realized they literally live demoed doing so on a ATV right?
Moreover, the main use of ramps, at least in my mind having unloaded and loaded a pickup truck, is making it easier to move heavy objects in and out by hand.
I'm pretty sure the only person fantasizing here is you.
I think you got confused. These weight numbers are for towing, not to be put into the truck bed.
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I know a lot of folks are walking away from the puzzling aesthetic but I think that’s the point. Existing Tesla owners with a taste for existing design cues won’t push Tesla sales any further. They’ve got to expand the demographic and this design has a chance to do this.
Think of all the wrangler, hummer, truck buyers who want a militaristic, rough, unpolished steel look and this is that flavor taken to an extreme.
Other buyers still have the S3XYs to choose from so we can all have our favorite toys from the same company. No cannibalization.
Whether people may like this exterior design or not, it's a display of bravery from Tesla to steer away from old conventional shapes and forms. Strong innovative design deviations like this should be praised.
my assumption was that people who ride this kind of car want to stand out in the first place. Most pick up trucks and other kind of trucks all look pretty weird like the slideshow at the start. Square cars, weird dimensions, etc. I think they're appealing to the right demographic here
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Looking at pictures on their site I keep having to remind myself that it's an actual physical thing because it looks so much like render.
It looks like a videogame incorrectly rendering a “low level of detail” model when the player is too close.
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> walking away from the puzzling aesthetic
This thing looks like straight out of a sci-fi movie. I think the aesthetic is going to get them a lot of sales. If I had use for a car, this would be at the very top of my list, purely based on the looks.
I hated it at first. But the more I look at it, the more I like it. It's crazy and totally memeable, like a cross between Guy Fieri, Cosmo Kramer, and Jeff Goldblum.
I bet they'll get a ton of sales from people buying it ironically. Which, when you think about it, is why many people buy trucks in the first place - very few are buying it for utility.
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Yup. You need to apply only very little imagination here - this is just a paint job away from designs used in half of the sci-fi series of the last 20 years.
I explore, study, read and think about design a lot. This truck is giving me mixed feelings.
In static images, it looks ugly, but in videos, it looks awesome.
Maybe it's because of the extremely minimal design, and as someone said in these comments, it lacks any features at all.
One thing though, you have to give Elon the credit to travel down the road less traveled.
Someone's gotta turn retrofuturist sci-fi into reality
They are doing that well with Starship. I guess this fits the theme.
In fact it's made with the same steel alloy. I think I want to buy one now.
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You also need to look at the Eastern market - Chinese/Middle East markets are apparently what is driving the outrageous size of BMW's grills, and many other extreme design elements currently en vogue.
In the Middle East the Land Cruiser V8 is king. It's not because of looks (although IMO they don't look bad), but what it can do.
Can you use this to overtake someone on the hard shoulder (half covered in sand) and go bumming around sand dunes? That's what Tesla have got to do to win there.
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It looks like a gonzo ball. I'm gonna take some time to come round to this, if I ever do.
> gonzo ball
What do those words mean? Google Image Search isn't helping.
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This doesn’t look militaristic, rough or unpolished. It looks like a high tech El Camino.
Yeah, because that's what all the F150 buyers of the world really wanted, an angular flat-paneled ridiculous movie prop.
This thing alienates far more than it attracts in the pickup truck market.
Flat panel is what trucks have needed to go back to. Get a bad dent or the garbage is rusting out? Cut it out and weld some sheet on top. No need buy an entire door or go to a body shop.
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ok sure, but what if they paint it red?
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F150s have been getting more and more like this, this is exactly what they want.
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I genuinely had to double check my calendar to make sure it wasn’t April 1st.
I love the fact that Tesla are moving away from the boring, middle of the road designs of their previous models.
But this.... this is just hideous.
It doesn’t look tough or futuristic; it looks like something a 10 year old designed, and no, that’s not a good thing.
This is the first time I have seen a production vehicle's design to be less realistic (in terms of usability, component reuse, artistic freedom, etc) than it's artistic renders.
Here's a few artist imagined renders, and to be honest, they would be a lot less likely to get an April 1st calendar check reaction:
- https://inteng-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/img/iea/JYG0mpkD61/s...
- https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/tesla-p...
Whether it looks hideous or not would still depend on personal preferences though. I like the fact that it looks, well like a concept car, but it isn't.
These look so so boring
Funny enough my first impression was that the teslarati-image was the real one and the official one from tesla was the fake one. Had to double check.
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The divisiveness of this design is precisely what will propel its success. It's the coolest production car I've ever seen. And I expect >50% of the population to strongly disagree, mostly people from different generations. "Appalling" designs get free viral marketing; the trick is to still appeal to enough of your target market.
This truck gets attention. It's a loud status statement that looks cheap to build, costs less than $50k. Well done Tesla.
This thread already has more comments than anything I've seen in months. The design is absolutely doing its job as a marketing tool.
Some people will love it, some people will hate it, a lot of people are probably just kind of confounded by it but will come to like it after they see a few in person.
Either way it's absolutely dominating a news cycle, which isn't easy to do.
>I expect >50% of the population to strongly disagree, mostly people from different generations
Out of curiosity, which generations? I'm in my 20s and most of the friends Ive talked to think it's comically ugly.
Looks cheap overall.
"production car"
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I actually like this design because it's not the same old boring style of nearly every other vehicle these days, but I've always been pretty nonconformist.
What really stood out to me is the truck bed and the way the ramp pulls (or folds?) out. It actually seems very sensible and well designed, despite looking like it's trying too hard to be different.
And the sides of the bed of the truck come down at an angle so you can't lean over the side to grab something out of the bed or sit on the side of the bed. Strapping things down at an angle like that will be difficult as well.
It's tough in unimportant ways but weak when it comes to the bed which is arguably the most important feature of a truck.
I think this vehicle is better described as a crossover. For a crossover its not as ugly to me because I'm not hung up on the design decision to neuter the bed. But as a truck it looks like they chose a really terrible looking form over function.
It’s the lovechild of a Honda Ridgeline with a Pontiac Aztec. Vanity truck for old guys.
You can’t use it as a work truck as when you damage something, the part will take 3 years to arrive.
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My first thought was that the 3D model accidentally used the low-poly LOD for far-away rendering instead of the high-poly one.
It looks like something you would find on Kickstarter by someone with a bit of 3d modelling experience.
I think it's the exact opposite: It's sleek, beautiful and futuristic without being pretentious.
Good thing is: You won't have to buy it.
It will also be illegal in any country that cares about pedestrian safety.
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I think it looks incredible. I love it.
I really just looks like a car in Playstation 1 era graphics
> I love the fact that Tesla are moving away from the boring
Yeah that's for Elon's other company.
Well if he's going to use these to go on mars it's got to be functional without anything frivolous.
I'd buy this one in a minute if I had the need for a truck. It's so beautiful. I totally dig into this retro futuristic design. Wish they made a car like that. Tesla is killing it.
April 1st was my first response too. I mean, seriously? This is ridiculous. Is aerodynamics just out the window now?
funny because tesla began by making normal looking cars when everyone else were making i3s and Zoes and Leafs.
How the tables turn.
I absolutely love the design! It's so new, so unique, and so bold where as I am not certain I'd be able to tell a ford a chevy and a ram apart without their logos
Under the "Versatile Utility" heading, the third set of text refers to "the ability to pull near infinite mass".
A vehicle out of TRON that carries bags of dirt and pulls a horse wagon.
More than ugly, it looks like a parody.
I agree, it's seems there's too much edge in the design of this vehicle.
Does the US not have pedestrian safety standards? An all metal front grill must be horrible on any safety tests.
I can only assume this is a joke and in a few hours Elon will do a "one more thing" before showing the real Tesla Pickup.
This take on a pickup looks like some engineer accidentally left their Halo fan-art on the shared CAD file server.
Don't be ridiculous. The US has no pedestrian safety standards whatsoever. In a sane world, the NHTSA would have outlawed bull bars and required trucks to have sideguards.
I had to look this up because i figured you must be talking out of your ass, there had to be some pedestrian safety standards.
but nope, apparently not. https://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/12/07/while-other-countries...
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So, is this basically illegal in other countries? Does that mean we should expect the Cybertruck to be US-only?
That was my immediate thought. Granted, I've not watched the video as I'm at work so if it was covered then I've not seen it, but that thing looks like it has absolutely no crumple zones, and the lack of curved surfaces would cause horrific injury in a pedestrian collision.
Tesla Model S and 3 in terms of collision safety are the safest cars ever sold in America. There is a giant crumple zone where the engine would be in an ICE vehicle. The Cybertruck will be the same.
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Not meant to be mainstream. It's meant to be f'ing tough and show how much of a beast the electric vehicle can be. Really takes the air out of being 'Built Ford Tough' Likely just following the Roadster play book. Get the toughness doubters out of the way, then a more traditional truck to follow.
Does it not being mainstream even matter, though? Because at least here in AU, and I believe in the EU, to even register it as roadworthy it needs to not compromise its collision protection which includes pedestrian collisions.
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Ever seen a train pulled by a ford? I have. Built Ford Tough is TRUE
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I would love to see the frowns of the EU regulators when they wake up and see this.
I guess it’s a good thing that trucks like this aren’t really a thing in the EU.
They exist, but I don’t know anyone who has ever owned or rented one. They’re hard to find, dealerships don’t tend to have them so you’d have to find a specialist importer I reckon.
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Never going to pass, those sharp edges and corners would give negative EuroNCAP ratings.
Doubt they're even going to try to introduce it on the EU market, there's very little demand for pickup trucks here...
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They would promote the Semi pickup instead.
For it to be sold in Europe doesn't it also have to comply with European laws? Would Tesla create a second version of the truck for Europe?
> Would Tesla create a second version of the truck for Europe?
I don't think I've ever actually seen what Americans call a 'truck' on a street in Europe.
(Slight exaggeration, but not really.)
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Don't Teslas have some sort of collision detection that will automatically apply brakes in case of an object in the road?
And anyway, I'm not sure why an all metal grill would be worse than the grill guard (cow catcher) already present on a lot of trucks.
Tesla pedestrian collision warning is dangerously ineffective. It passes some tests with flying colors and completely fails other pedestrian safety tests.
Plays into the inconsistent nature of autopilot.
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As do a lot of other premium-brand cars, nothing special about it anymore.
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Not really. Many people in the south and more rural areas use large trucks as a daily driver. Many with custom front bumpers that are solid steel.
Sure, but a manufacturer couldn't sell a car with a solid steel bumper. In the US you have lots of freedom to modify your car after you buy it, but manufacturers have strict regulations.
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lol. hitting a pedestrian and killing them is essentially a traffic ticket in the US
>Does the US not have pedestrian safety standards?
I don't know what it is like outside of the United States but here everyone has the common sense to know "don't walk in front of moving vehicles" as you are taught as a child "look both ways before crossing" over and over and over.
You can put all of safety features you want on a vehicle, but if they hit a pedestrian there is a VERY good chance they will die. That's a lot of force and a little bit of rubber or plastic won't make a lot of difference, I say this as someone that lost a very dear friend to a hit and run as a pedestrian and lost another friend this year that was stationary on her motorcycle and someone rear-ended her and killed her (effectively) instantly.
Did both of your friends not have common sense or what? Didn't they know not to walk in front of moving vehicles? They'd be alive now if the had known that, duh.
And plus your argument falls flat if you consider that even 1% better chance of survival means a lot of lives saved. Are you saying looks outweight safety for pedestrians?
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>>Does the US not have pedestrian safety standards?
Yes we do, get out of the way.
Outside of major cities there are almost no pedestrians in the US, the only time people walk in the US is when our car/truck is broken..
and with Uber we do not even have to do that now... Technology is great :)
Turn all parking spaces into buildings and you can pretend you live in space, except without leaving Earth :).
As a truck guy who has owned a lot of trucks and currently owns a 2017 Ram 2500 CTD 4x4 and a Land Rover Defender 110, I'm telling you right now: this is going to kill it. This is the suburban status item of 2022.
I want to buy this right now. This has nearly the towing capacity of my Ram and will smoke my wife's Audi on the track.
> As a truck guy who has owned a lot of trucks and currently owns a 2017 Ram 2500 CTD 4x4 and a Land Rover Defender 110, I'm telling you right now: this is going to kill it.
We'll see.
If it does kill, the looks won't be a problem, they'll be an asset - a more extreme version of the Prius.
But if it doesn't, a lot of people will blame the look.
This demographic will love the look. Have you seen pickups lately? The Big 3 have been chasing an industrial aesthetic for years. This was a very bold move and I feel very strongly that this will shake up the market.
The specs are a truck lover's dream. Most pickups are driving office dudes like me to our office jobs every day. We hate the gas mileage but we love the look and we want something powerful enough to tow the boat or ATV hauler on the weekends. This truck claims it can do that AND beat a Porsche off the traffic light AND never have to visit a fuel pump again.
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Do people in the rural/suburban US really tow that much that often? Seeing the number of trucks just doesn’t make sense (especially given how few are towing anything). Is there a little measure of lifestyle signaling or macho involved in truck ownership, or towing capacity comparison?
Car companies don't limit themselves to selling people a car based on what their life is like now, people have already got something that lets them do the things they currently do.
They can market it based on what their life could be like if they brought the car. Perhaps in vague, emotional terms.
You too could be kayaking/mountain biking/skiing through picturesque countryside with your pretty, athletic friends... if you buy a Brand X SUV. Be confident in any situation. Whatever, wherever, whenever. Adventure starts here. Built tough. Driven by dreams. Past the pavement. Built for city roads and no roads.
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Its like asking if people in US really shoot to defend themselves that often?
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I know several people with campers, horse trailers, car trailers, boats, etc. Most aren’t maxing out their towing capacity, but if you’re driving through any mountains, you’ll want to be well within those limits unless you want a white knuckle experience.
I have a Silverado diesel truck which I inherited. I don't tow often, but I do use it a lot for landscaping work -- hauling mulch, brick, and lumber in and yard waste out to the recycling center.
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Its going to sell well, like every Tesla. I suspect that it won't sell well to people who buy trucks for their actual utility, but you're right that this thing will totally be a status symbol; just not among people who would utilize its capabilities.
Just look at the success of the G-Wagon among white LA uurbanite-types. No one cares about the utility. It just looks weird and gives off this vibe of "I work! Trust me! Look at my utilitarian car!" That's who this will sell to, and it will sell well.
The G-Wagon is a very high end luxury SUV with a huge profit margin. As such, MB can afford to sell only a handful. But at the advertised price, the Cybertruck offers no such margin. It'll surely will be a money-loser for Tesla which they'll have to sell like F150s for a decade just to break even.
The Cybertruck isn't about profit. It's about making Tesla's name synonymous with shock and awe.
Wow, really? I feel the completely opposite.
I also consider myself a "truck guy". In my entire life, I've owned a single car. I had it for about a year when I got up one morning, drove to the dealership, bought a new Dodge (basically the same as yours, except 1500), and told the girlfriend she could have the car (hers had seen better days).
I would not be caught dead in one of these.
(Disclaimer: I'm a Harley riding country boy from the midwest, probably not Tesla's major demographic anyways!)
So you're going to downgrade from a 3/4 ton frame to something that falls between a dodge dakota and ram 1500...
In other words you overbought and don't use the diesel or the 3/4 ton frame? Because this is definitely NOT a replacement for that.
The vast majority of SUVs and trucks are bought to signal some sort of status or affiliation to a group. Just look at how clean these vehicles are. And some of the brands. Porsche SUV. Mercedes pickup.
The people who actual use these class of vehicles for real have mud splashed over the vehicle and extra cans of petrol. They aren’t going to buy an unproven vehicle that you can’t refuel.
They’ll probably make a killing with the Cybertruck.
>In other words you overbought and don't use the diesel or the 3/4 ton frame?
I think you just described 80% of truck owners.
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The trimotor version claims to tow 14000+. A 2019 Ram 2500 tops out at around 19K, but my 2017 is a little less. The 2019 F150 tows about 11K.
This truck is no Dodge Dakota. This sits between a half-ton and 3/4-ton truck.
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I am not sure if this will become a status symbol, but I 100% agree that that is the market it is going for.
I know three people who own a pickup (one in commercial construction, one who is a big animal vet, and one who has a horse farm). This does not appear to be designed for those people at all.
However, I think it could appeal to the same people who wanted a hummer. Driving it is just overtly confrontational. It will be fascinating to see whether there is a market for exactly this though, because Tesla is supposed to be environmentally friendly, and the people who bought hummers clearly didn't care about that (at the time, at least).
Re: Hummer H2 and H2 Truck, except it has an option with 2.9s 0-60!!¡ It will be a staple.
By track you mean drag strip because mass and high C of G are going to make this thing difficult to corner/handle.
Why would it have a high centre of gravity? Wouldn't the battery pack be most of the mass and live right at the bottom?
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Your wife drives an Audi that can't do better than 0-60 in 6.5 seconds?
Also.. tracks have turns. Low center of gravity helps, but this thing will probably weigh 3-4x as much as a sporty car. Even the Model S has weight comparable to a minivan. My guess is a Subaru BRZ could beat this around many tracks.
This is a cool truck and all, and I hope Tesla makes more exciting designs like this, but I'm tired of people thinking that Teslas are performance cars just because they have torque. Tesla has yet to make anything that interests me at the prices they charge.
>>Your wife drives an Audi that can't do better than 0-60 in 6.5 seconds?
How is that surprising? Unless you go for the really expensive ones with top-spec engines, you're normally looking at 7-8s to 60mph. As an example, the Q3 can be had with 6 different engines, and only the range-topping 45 TFSI breaks the 6.5s barrier at 6.3s to 60mph. All other engines are slower.
A1 can be had with 3 different engines, and the fastest one does 0-60 in 7.7s.
Really, the only Audi where <6.5s to 60mph is "standard" is the A8, with the slowest engine being the 50 TDI that does 0-60 in 5.9s. The second model in line, the A7, starts with a 40TDI that does 0-60 in 8.3 seconds.
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> Your wife drives an Audi that can't do better than 0-60 in 6.5 seconds?
Not too surprising. According to [1], the A3 and A4 mostly have 0-60 times worse than 6.5s. You've got to get up to the recent A6's to beat that.
[1]: https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/audi-0-60-mph-tim...
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At 6000 pounds and a high CoG, this thing is going to handle worse than most ladder frame trucks. And that's bad.
It's also going to have truly awful front and rear visibility. Long windshields are invariably difficult to live with, creating a hothouse interior on any day without clouds. Once you add appendages to make this legal (side mirrors, rear center brake and tail lights, headlights and turn signals) much of the bold charm of the original concept truck (which is all this is) will be lost.
I agree the design is refreshingly bold. But lots of concept cars in the past initially took fans by storm only to fade into the mainstream by the time they shipped. I'll be very impressed if a design this striking can maintain its visual impact all the way through production.
The tri motor does 0-60 in <2.9
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Love it or hate it seems to be the case here - not many fence sitters. Been reading TMC and FB Tesla Owners group the past hour and reactions are I’d estimate about 80% negative.
Also a truck guy here, and totally concur. I reserved mine within 30 seconds of seeing the site.
I agree and think this could possibly replace many SUVs in suburban areas. 6 person seating is another great selling point for many, just look at all of the third row vehicles like the Honda Pilot. The base price of the Cybertruck is similar to a Pilot. Which would you rather drive?
Agree. I'm in love.
isn't the electric-grid dependency completely antithetical to the ownership of an off-road, off-civilization vehicle ?
(also, honestly this design is a fugly tin can. Elon musk is generally going through a tin can phase (starship etc)). I wouldn't bet on many sales for this, but it's still interesting to see something so different
Mad Max notwithstanding, you can only store gasoline less than a year, so it's not like the alternative is really any less reliant on civilization.
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500 miles is fairly substantial range. I can see this being useful for a very wide variety of use cases, but obviously not those longer-term multi-day excursions into the wilderness.
That said, it is a truck, and maybe someone (perhaps even Tesla) will develop a modular LNG/propane/diesel generator unit you can put into the back of the truck for purposes of range extension. I realize this is inefficient, not environmentally friendly, and going in the opposite direction of what the electric car is supposed to do, but its also only applicable in those extreme edge cases where you need to be away from the grid for days or weeks.
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For the one lap until it overheats, or until this pig needs to hit an apex.
It looks like something my son would have designed when he was 5.
As someone looking at a Tacoma TRD Pro or Ram Power Wagon this thing just shattered my midsize vs 2500 internal debate.
Your wife races her Audi at a track?
Really weird if you read that post and that was your only take-away.
> This is the suburban status item of 2022.
Yeah I don’t think so. Trucks are not suburban status items. This is more like the El Camino of 2022.
> Trucks are not suburban status items.
Have you ever been to Texas?
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They're definitely a suburban status item in much of the West of the US.
> suburban status items
I have found the single stupidest thing in this thread.
Only thing that is missing from this comment is a disclaimer about you holding TSLA stock.
Hacker News never fails to amuse.
Will they be able to survive until then with this though? Because I seriously doubt it.
$100 initial deposit is to show wall St demand. That will keep borrowing costs down.
Oh boy, you aren't going to make friends here. Upvoting you just to mitigate the damage.
Is this satire or are rich car people really this insufferable? This may be the best/worst comment I've ever seen here. The level of status projecting and suburban truck guy cringe is through the roof.
I think it looks pretty awesome. The ATV that charges in the back as the "oh, and one more thing" moment was also great. I can see this being very popular. There is something very masculine and forward looking about the design. The interior shots on the website are also impressive-- I wonder why they didn't show that tonight in the demo (probably it's just a rendering and the prototype version has a bare-bones interior). The glass breaking was tough to watch though-- I'm sure it threw him off during the rest of the presentation.
See people getting a ride in it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTDztHFa0_Q
Skip to around 15 minutes in unless you like watching terrible smartphone footage of a bunch of people standing around waiting for the truck to turn up.
It somehow looks way, way better in normal use than during the presentation. How weird, it's usually the other way round.
https://youtu.be/BTDztHFa0_Q?t=879
I wonder if they cut the presentation a little short because of the glass issue . Then again, Musk isn't exactly the greatest presenter so I don't think he could play off someone talking in his ear to cut it short.
To be honest, I reckon the fact that he’s a terrible presenter adds a certain level of charm.
Where’s the ATV order site?
As the current owner of a 2017 F150 long bed 4x4 with an ARE bed cap, I'm super-tempted by the Tesla. It's a total no-brainer for the people buying things like the Honda Ridgeline. It's less so for people who treat their truck like a work vehicle.
Frankly, I don't think will cannibalize the existing P/U market as much as it will sway more people away from SUVs into [Cyber]trucks, especially if the back seat is as spacious as a normal full size truck's.
It has a 6.5' bed, and I look at the bed to judge whether it's used as a truck or not. Shortbeds are unusable and nearly useless for any real work. They're so frustrating, that I don't even consider a shortbed truck a truck at all. It's a family sedan masquerading as one. Tesla very wisely delivered a real truck.
The only thing the Cybertruck needs is more colors. It's a little odd looking, like Robocop is coming to town, but it's time for changes in the market. The Model 3 converted me to viewing existing cars as dinosaurs, and this will probably transform the truck market as well.
I grew up working on a farm, and while I'm a developer today, I still get my hands dirty. I'm in for one.
6.5' is a short bed, though - it's the same length as most short-bed full-size 1/2 or 3/4 ton pickups.
It's only a "long bed" when you compare it to midsize trucks like the Tacoma or Ridgeline, which is what this vehicle really is more akin to (especially the first generation Ridgeline, as you can't replace the bed on the Cybertruck or the old Ridgeline as it was a part of the unibody - not good when you accidentally overload or bend up the bed, unfortunately).
Curious to see what the production version ends up like, but I don't know if this is really going to be taken seriously by people who need a "real" truck, at least in the current form. It's more of a weekend warrior vehicle right now, I'd say
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I had a short-bed diesel for 5 years or so, and put it to plenty of use. Yes, it's not ideal for common dimensions of lumber (but you can just pop the tailgate down and put some little red flags on stuff), but it will still haul tons of random things (for me: large trash dump runs, car engines on stands, a set of 16 car tires, several 55 gallon drums, a full bucketload of topsoil, a pallet of landscaping rock, etc). IMHO, a short-bed truck is still a truck.
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Given the sledgehammer test, at least from the side that thing will be very aggressive in a crash. As in, if it runs into you, or if you run into it you will be more injured and/or dead. You generally want a little give on the road in both directions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_incompatibility
Looks sweet though.
That's a pretty common reason people cite for buying big SUVs. A belief that being the bigger car in an accident makes you safer.
It's more than a belief... the statistics bear it out. "The lowest 2015 death rate by vehicle type is for very large SUVs: 13 deaths per million registered vehicles. The highest is for mini cars: 64 deaths per million registered vehicles." https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/are-smaller-cars-as-safe-...
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I think a perception of additional personal safety is definitely a reason people like SUVs.
But you can be super safe while still helping protect your crash partners. You can often improve both your and your crash partner's safety with more crumple zones.
I don't think the patrons of this thing are going to be thinking about this much.
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More mass = less acceleration when the same force is applied, and acceleration is what really kills you. You can't argue with physics.
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I was going to make a comment about the hood not being soft enough for pedestrians hitting it, but maybe the computer would prevent such a collision.
That is a poor, poor substitute for passive safety measures...
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That was Boeing's approach for safety on 737 MAX.
Great truck. Very exotic design, excellent price point, However, there was one statement that stood out as a MASSIVE mistake:
>The glass is stronger than standard car glass
Please stop doing this. Audi and Mercedes pulled this gimmicky crap about 8 years ago until they realized samaritans, Firefighters and EMT's need to be able to breech safety-glass windows in the event you become entrapped in the vehicle (possibly burning) during a major accident. You may also need to shatter a window in order to exit your vehicle if it becomes submerged in a body of water.
Teslas are already unique enough to require their own first responder procedure to perform an advanced extraction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4peF1EYke8
Please, the vehicle already looks like the M577 Armored Personnel Carrier from Aliens. it outruns a porsche, it out pulls an f150. Youve ticked all the masculine boxes truck owners want for this thing. Dont turn it into a rolling coffin.
Not sure what you're worried about; all you need to break in is a lightly thrown metal ball.
The actual video (not related to me)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdaDdZHBOZA
I’m hoping for Jeremy clarkson to take a whack at “killing a Tesla” a la the infamous hilux that wouldn’t die:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk
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I'm not sure the lightly thrown ball can break the polymer layer. Just because the glass layer shatters it doesn't mean you can go trough it.
Hope they don't use something like this 3M polymer layer, because it means you will be trapped for 2 more minutes even if you have the tools to go trough the polymer.
https://youtu.be/cZy4DJHM_fs?t=34
I still can't tell how much of that was planned.
Ok, how/where do I acquire one of these in <insert entropic stereotypicality here> disaster situation?
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It's possible to build a stronger window that's still vulnerable to those "Window Punch" devices that all firemen carry these days. I'm sure this was considered, I believe it's regulated in some regions.
Otherwise, if that is indeed the case, if it was a family car for use with kids that would be a borderline deal breaker. But that doesn't seem to be the target market here. For me personally as long as they communicate the risk honestly I don't see the problem.
One of the bullet points was that it seats six. Pretty sure this'll be rolling through suburbia delivering tots to Montessori schools.
> Teslas are already unique enough to require their own first responder procedure to perform an advanced extraction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4peF1EYke8
Isn't most of that just the special consideration that all electric vehicles will need in order to isolate the battery voltage?
Model X doors are pretty mechanically exotic and the normal way they're opened requires electric power. E.g. the prying done at 15 minutes into the video is not at all how you'd force a normal car door.
I couldn’t disagree more.
There’s nothing gimmicky or odd about this. It was demonstrated to behave exactly like standard laminated auto glass, which is everything short of required to meet FMVSS 226 standards required by 2017. Most all US cars now have laminated side glass.
And for good reason, they make curtain air bags stay in place and do their job correctly. Side impacts are way more common than fires or submersions.
Regardless, first responders have been dealing with laminated glass on windshields for many decades, they have tools to deal with it.
And the number of people who break out their own windows to save themselves is approaching zero. Tools are typically still required to break old-school safety glass.
The extra strong steel panels also raise questions about accidents and crumple zones. Modern vehicles are designed to absorb as much force as possible instead of deflecting the impact.
My first thought is that it's not even a truck. The price will likely be increased and it will be unrepairable. You can't drive a car down the street without side mirrors.
Some cars are replacing side mirrors with cameras now to help with drag and cabin buffeting. It's legal in Europe but not yet in the US.
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And you definitely can't tow without side mirrors.
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I heard that Tesla is bypassing that on the Roadster with removable side mirrors which you can install cameras there instead. Not sure on the specifics, but something along those lines (although I'm not sure about the legality and please don't quote me on this).
The glass fractured pretty easily. The demonstration didn't go as planned:
https://youtu.be/m7atGkba-Z8?t=75
So maybe that means it's not so hard to get into if needed.
>Great truck. Very exotic design, excellent price point,
Hmm as a long time Truck Buyer I am not impressed with the design at all, nor the specs, nor the price.
>Please, the vehicle already looks like the M577 Armored Personnel Carrier from Aliens.
I wish, no this looks like some on put a Truck bed on a Pontiac Trans sport minivan from the 90's
This Truck buyer will be waiting for the Electric F150, that is for sure
sure and if it breaks down a tesla should do just fine toeing it.
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Great point! But, to be fair, the glass didn't look that strong in the demo :)
I had to refresh my memory on the M577 Carrier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVLBLJOCBg8
In the grand scheme of things, what are the chances of getting in a car accident that leaves you alive, but traps you, and also causes life threatening injures or situations, but only at the level where if first responders can't reach and extract you in the average amount of time? And how many people are afraid enough of becoming submerged in water to even have the tools necessary to shatter a regular window? And even if they have the tools, what are the chances they'd be in reach and that you'd be able enough to reach them?
Pretty high? You need only be unconcious to end up dying in a burning car because no one could extract you. Cars also deform in weird and chaotic ways in a real world accident, who knows what will be the final piece between you and safety. People sometimes exit via their rear windows because the front of the cabin is crushed and the glass there broke, but the doors and windshield frames were also crushed so you can't exit. Cars are pretty good at absorbing the impact so your body can tolerate it non-fatally, but you may still end up broken, trapped or simply unconcious.
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You can flip your question around and say what are the chances that you need stronger windows than the rest of the vehicles on the road?
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Doors unable to open + fire is all it takes.
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You can never tick enough masculine boxes.
The main reason cars with internal-combustion engines catch on fire during collisions must be a breach in the fuel system. While your point about rescuing passengers is valid, I'm not sure fires alone could support it.
That’s what this guy thought, too, just a few weeks ago. The URL tells the tale: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/23/man-died-...
Teslas burn just fine, in fact much more unpredictably than ICE cars.
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The big chunk of lithium that powers a Tesla will burn just fine. I think it’s a valid point.
Tesla's catch fire as well - [pdf warning] https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/2016_Mod...
Battery fires are worse than gasoline fires from what I've read: (2016) - https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-s-batteries-violently-explo... (2017) - https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-s-torched-in-weird-supercha...
Conceivably, the fire could be another car burning. If you have two disabled cars next to each other after a collision and one of them is on fire, people in the car next to it could be cooked if they don't get out.
There are many valid reasons first responders might have to remove people from cars quickly.
The person(s) you hit, or that hits you, may be driving a petrol vehicle.
Not at all. A key point is protection from attackers.
But they need ballistic glass.
https://wartell.com/video/WZPS1j4KvJs
> A key point is protection from attackers.
Who is going to be attacking you? Seriously. Even with all this crazy stuff going on we live in one of the most peaceful times is history. Especially in the West, which is where most of these are going to sell (few people that live in these violent places could afford this. Except maybe the authoritarian regimes themselves).
Personally I'd rather get the extra miles that a lighter vehicle offers than knowing that I can shoot my truck with a pistol. If you feel like you need this kind of protection then I feel sorry that you live in such unjustified fear.
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I disagree, I wish we could have fewer vehicle restrictions for a certain class a vehicles for people who accept the risks associated. A truck with bullet proof windows might be nice for people who live or drive through certain areas.
That sounds like exactly the sort of statistical analysis people tend to get spectacularly wrong. I'd be surprised if more than a single-digit number of people get shot while driving even in the US. For Europe, you probably need to express it in years/incident if you want to use integers.
Meanwhile, more than a million people die in crashes each year, and some 40 million or so are injured. Putting any, even small, additional obstacle in the way of help is bound to be a losing proposition.
This would essentially be a re-hash of the seatbelt debate, where many people were somehow convinced they could escape any accident by quickly jumping out before impact. That attitude lead to seatbelt laws, which were the single most important factor in reducing fatalities per mile traveled by a factor of 10 or so since the peak.
While I'm tempted to invoke some Darwinian principle, the damage wouldn't be limited to those making that decisions, but also their passenger, the next owners, etc, and possibly pedestrian victims of collisions.
In any case, I doubt it's actually forbidden right now. There are, after all, bulletproof cars. They just tend to be expensive enough to mostly discourage people motivated by Hollywood macho fantasies.
Most of these types of vehicle will be owned by a suburbian parent driving his/her kids to some variant of organized recreational events. The rest is just marketing.
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It's not like you can't get your own bullet proof glass installed. It seems pretty silly on a consumer vehicle meant for suburbia.
Stupid question: what’s up with trucks in urban areas? I understand the utility of a truck in rural/farm setting but never figured why folks want to lug around that pointless empty half while living in cities. Two of the folks I know who owns trucks have used empty halfs probably twice in a year when bringing home some furniture but that too could have delivered free by the store. Again, as I said, stupid question.
In some cases it seems like pure conspicuous consumption. The sheer impracticality of it is a badge of honor. This is not atypical for American consumerism.
In fact, I wonder about the Tesla truck's appeal. I feel like the oversized truck's negative ecological impact is one part of its appeal, do does an electric truck actually end up selling? Here in the South, some pickup drivers modify their exhausts to spew toxic smoke ("rolling coal") which is clearly not an option with the Tesla...
That’s so true, trucks and SUVs like the Mercedes G Wagon, the Ford Raptor (the F150’s rowdy cousin) and maybe even the Range Rover HSE are typical Veblen Goods. They do really well in urban areas specifically because they are over-engineered and are overkill for the purpose they are used for and are not afraid to show it off. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cybertruck does well for the exact same reason.
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I agree with you on many pickup purchases being conspicuous consumption, but I think you're underestimating how many people would happily display conspicuous green consumption. This has all the "look at my big powerful toy" but acceptable for someone wanting to display how environmentally aware they are.
> This is not atypical for American consumerism.
Conspicuous consumption is an enormous part of consumerism absolutely everywhere. Wearing a $20,000 suit is conspicuous consumption to those who can tell that’s what you’re wearing but we don’t generally call it that because it’s only conspicuous if you’re in the know.
> Here in the South, some pickup drivers modify their exhausts to spew toxic smoke ("rolling coal") which is clearly not an option with the Tesla...
They could always shoot a hole in the battery pack to do that.
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Having learnt the term 'rolling coal' just now, I would sincerely hope the morons doing this are in a minority amongst truck drivers. I find it far more likely that conspicuous consumption is to blame for the truck/SUV trend than anti-environmentalism.
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Think about conspicuous energy waste with Tesla coils. Rolling coils.
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I live in a city and have used my pick-up truck for 15yrs constantly to move furniture, haul trash to the dump, and bulk material (mulch, dirt, sand, pavers, etc) for myself and friends. It's a major time and money saver. Yes, parking is a PITA and the gas is horrendous. However, with the population density, the utility need to haul materials is compounded - especially now that you have increasing #'s of DIY renovations and things like urban farms.
The thing I find interesting about this truck design is the angled body. It looks like it's designed for minimised radar cross section (RCS) signature, which is a military application benefit.
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I got a speech like that from a co-worker, who has since called me to help him with my truck multiple times. Not so useless, it seems.
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I live in a northern Midwest suburb, in a region that receives a lot of snow in the winter. I have driven older trucks my whole life, in part because of of the 4x4 capability for winter driving. I also enjoy being the guy who keeps a tow strap in the toolbox and hauls people out of ditches. Hard to do that without a heavy 4x4 vehicle.
When you have the bed, you realize there are a lot more uses for it than you might otherwise think. Other than just hauling stuff, the tailgate acts as a bench to sit on- I used to have lunch with my wife every day in the summer like this. At an outdoor event (like fireworks, outdoor concert in a park, etc.) I've lined the bed with blankets and lounged at comfortable height with 3 friends and great view of whatever is going on.
For me, the real key is to own an older truck that you don't mind dinging or using to its potential. I buy used, with cash, and I don't spend more than $15K or so. I don't understand spending $65-75K on a brand new mall-crawling status symbol that will only start being used like a truck in 15 years by a guy like me.
Although admittedly, I really like the look and presumed potential of the new Tesla truck. It's the first vehicle that I'd actually consider buying new. I wonder how well the stainless steel will hold up the salty roads- the bane of vehicles around here.
How much snow do you get there?
I live in Northern Europe and drive a Prius and have no issues in the winter. Last year we went to visit my wife's grandma, who lives in a 'village' (nearest neighbour 1km away) ~5km down a uneven dirt track which is bad enough in the summer. When we went, there was 30cm of snow on the road, but I had absolutely no issues. I was surprised by how well it handled it.
Sure if I had ended up in a ditch I would have had troubles, but you'd also have issues with a truck. (There aren't many big trees you can use to tow yourself out in this area)
I get that maybe you like trucks, but I don't think there is as much need as you make out (in the winter department - your other points are fair arguments). Modern cars (esp. 4x4) can handle pretty much any road surface, the only case you would need something bigger is for off-road where you need higher clearance.
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The long-term utility of this Tesla truck will be interesting to see. Even though new trucks are insanely priced right now, they do have very good longer-term value compared to cars.
I like having a truck but would never drop $75k for one. I currently own a 1999 Chevy 2500. It has 150,000 miles on it, which is essentially nothing for a truck that old. A lot of people who buy trucks expect them to last 15+ years and most of them do. Hell, as long as the frame is in good shape, you won't have any trouble finding someone who would buy the truck and drop a new engine in it, considering a crate 350 will set you back less than $3,000.
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My Honda Civic does just fine in the winter in Michigan. A good set of snow tires is all I need.
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> there are a lot more uses for it than you might otherwise think
This looks like a solution in search of a problem. People are buying stuff they don't need then finding a good justification for it (from their perspective). But almost anything can be justified this way. Even driving an 18-wheeler will have advantages you never thought about but this doesn't negate the downsides. Mainly that you carry around 4000-5000lbs (over 2000Kg) of metal mainly just to move 1 or 2 people and nothing more. This is a lot of wasted fuel and a lot of space taken in the street.
Coal also has advantages but few people would dare defend it with this argument.
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Like me, you probably live in the vast majority of the Midwest that is as flat as a pancake. I would argue in that scenario 4x4 is not very important: if there's no incline, two wheel drive will work in almost any weather situation.
(sure, on strictly theoretical grounds, having 4 wheel drive, or 10 wheel drive or 1000 wheel drive, if there are no downsides, would always be preferable)
I once pulled a rather Jeep out of a ditch in my old Volvo 240 station wagon. At low speeds basically every 100+ HP vehicle is traction limited. It also did surprisingly well in the snow with a little practice and good tires.
How do you justify having much dirtier and far more carbon emissions than people who have appropriately sized vehicles? Granted, you could use it a few times for the bed, but why not just rent a truck and save the environment the other 95% of trips?
Trucks in urban settings are an exclusively American thing. Because of the chicken tax [1], a 20% import duty on trucks, foreign trucks are unprofitable in the US. This lack of competition incentivizes American auto makers to create as much domestic demand for trucks as possible.
1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
Urban pickup trucks in particular are very American, but the ever increasing number of SUVs in places like central London is just as absurd, not to mention problematic[0]. I'm guessing one reason Europe favours SUVs over trucks is because the roads are generally much narrower here.
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/...
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> foreign trucks are unprofitable in the US.
Toyota trucks are everywhere and our family 1995 Toyota t-100 regularly had people stopping us making offers on it from about 2005ish until I gave it to my half-brother in 2013 with almost 140k miles on it (which is nothing for a Toyota), I even had people knock on the door of our house offering to buy it when it wasn't for sale. The Indiana State Police (I live in Indiana) even had some of their fleet as Toyota pickups for years (they still might). Actually, I'm quite confident I received more offers for my t-100 than I did for my '67 c-10 and I'd regularly get stopped and asked if I was willing to sell it too (which I finally did when someone offered me twice what I'd paid for it, which I'm still sore about I really miss that truck).
To be fair though, Toyota does manufacture a lot of vehicles in Canada and the United States which gets around the 'chicken tax'.
The reason you don't see a lot of imported pickups is because most of them are absolutely tiny, when you see an Isuzu truck for example it looks about as practical as an El Camino.
They are also popular in Austria because you pay lower yearly/monthly taxes on small utility trucks even if you don't run a business. Plenty of large US trucks parking in the center of Vienna...
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I'd expect the lack of competition, especially from Japan, would make the American trucks more expensive and less reliable.
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How is the chicken tax related to practicality of trucks in urban settings? It makes American trucks cheaper. But OP's question was about the practicality of a large truck in an urban setting.
It seems like you wanted to show off your knowledge of the chicken tax and just threw it in an answer to whatever thread came up first.
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>an exclusively American thing.
UK has Chelsea Tractors.
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> Trucks in urban settings are an exclusively American thing.
I suppose you have never been in Crete, Greece. :P
Wouldn't they have that incentive regardless?
I found that once I owned a home, the utility for a truck doing "weekend warrior" tasks was great. Runs to the dump, transporting furniture, soil/mulch, firewood. Standard towing package for a boat or a rental trailer. Can also fit bikes, kayaks, skis, and camping equipment, no need for expensive roof rack accessories.
We use my wife's crossover for all of the family trips, so it's usually just me in the truck. Before I owned a home I enjoyed driving a nicer sedan but now I would now I prefer the utility of a mid-size truck.
I drive a Fiat Panda and I do all of those things. I perhaps spend a bit more time fitting stuff in (kayaks/skis have to go on top obviously).
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In Europe instead of owning big trucks or trailers for occasional use, we just rent them when needed or hire someone (usually businesses) who also owns one of those to do it. Plus, almost every store will offer delivery for reasonable prices. It generally cheaper and easier this way.
But I guess in US this usually wouldn't be viable because of the big land and less population density.
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I've found our minivan does most of that stuff just fine. For the times I need to haul more, we have a 4x8' utility trailer.
You’re wasting money. I did the math. It’s far cheaper to own a fuel efficient small car and rent a truck when needed.
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I live in Houston, where there are LOTS of very very clean very very expensive pickups. Most are status symbols that rarely see any true use.
However, in my immediate social group, there are LOTS of smaller trucks or smaller SUVs, mostly because of the practicality for bicycling trips. Sure, you can do a roof rack or a hitch rack, but if you want to go out to the hill country with you and your wife and both MTB and road bikes, you find yourself wishing for a truck bed pretty fast.
There's lots of overlap in this group with other outdoor activities -- camping, hiking, some fishing, a very small amount of hunting -- that reward actual trucks. My friend J has a full-size (read: HUGE) Ford with back seats and a long bed, and uses the HELL out of it, since he travels back and forth to Colorado with bikes pretty frequently.
But he and his wife also have a VW they use for most urban driving. ;)
What about quick release wheels? You can easily fit a bike in a compact car or two if it's something like a Mazda 3 / Prius
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It is absolutely no stupid question. That you ask this just shows you are a reasonable person :)
1. It is a status symbol (as in "my car is bigger than your car")
2. It is sturdier and has more weight so it will physically dominate the average car in an accident and provide more security to it's passengers.
The problem is, they're just bad vehicles. They don't handle well, they guzzle fuel and they kill more pedestrians. There is no point in them unless you're a farmer.
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> physically dominate the average car in an accident
This is just such an American way of putting it. Sounds so much nicer than "kill everyone in the other vehicle to provide a marginally higher chance for its owner" but it's basically the same thing
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>Again, as I said, stupid question.
People will come up with all sorts of justifications for what is really an emotional purchase.
If you don't believe this take a look at the marketing for cars, the further upmarket you go the more it is laden with emotional triggers. Buy this car and your wife will become slim and attractive, your kids will love you, roads will become empty and smooth before you, that new speed boat will suddenly be within reach and trailerable.
Never mind the reality of endless car payments, clogged up streets, increasing pedestrian deaths, kids not being able to play outside, particulate pollution and climate change.
In the US, for many folks, their vehicle is an identity statement. Generally minivans, sedans, and econoboxes are the exceptions, but the marketing here for most other car models tries hard to sell some demographic that they can claim somehow to be special. And interesting. I suspect the majority of pickup owners want to make such a statement. For them, driving an SUV would send the wrong message.
As someone who has a truck in an urban area I have one just for the reason you listed. I dont use the bed often but when I need it I do not have to make special arrangements. While it is true that sometimes its possible to get free delivery for some larger items thats no guarantee and you have are dependent on their schedule versus being able to do it on yours.
If you're going to have a vehicle the flexibility of a truck is second to none.
Why not use a normal car and a trailer?
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Chiming in as another one.
I live in Los Angeles. Four years ago, I bought a pick up truck.
In my case, I don't have a long commute. I can bike to work. So when I need a vehicle, it's to take my kids around, haul something I can't carry with my bike, or head out of the city for camping/adventuring/etc. The truck has been perfect. As it is, I use the bed of the truck at least once a week. I use it like all the other SUVs on the road, only I much prefer the flexibility of a proper truck, let alone the real offroad and towing capabilities.
Moreover, I know it's going to last pretty much forever and should I get a second, electric vehicle, there really won't ever be a time when having a truck on hand won't be useful.
I have a Toyota Matrix. It's a hatchback with a back seat that folds down into a flat bed. It's big enough for me to fit a bike without removing the wheels. Works for appliances and furniture as well.
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There are a ton of contractors in cities, in the Bay Area they probably make more than tech workers. There are also construction workers _everywhere_.
There are mosquito fleet trucks in SF whose whole purpose is to collect recycling and take it to the recycling center.
In western cities there are off-road enthusiasts who camp at places you can’t get to without a modified vehicle and winch (no crowded campsites).
Some people just like trucks and will buy them because why not?
> In western cities there are off-road enthusiasts who camp at places you can’t get to without a modified vehicle and winch (no crowded campsites).
Backpackers seem to manage just fine.
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From my anecdotal experience, here are the main purposes:
* Hauling stuff from the home improvement and warehouse stores. Single family houses are a bit of work depending on age and when they are not, HGTV is the devil's workshop that invents the work.
* Safety: the feeling that regardless of who is at fault, you will live in a car crash. I have seen plenty of sad news reports where in a truck+car collision, the people in the car paid for it with their lives while the truck driver walked away.
* Status: possible - just don't have enough social understanding to know whether this is still a thing. I can imagine a jacked-up F350 or Silverado may be a status symbol.
There are two types of people: those who have trucks, and those who get their friends with trucks to help them move.
Everyone I know just rents a moving van/movers.
Weird reason to own truck if you only do it so your friends will call you over to help them move.
And those who don't have friends with trucks, so have to rent one instead.
Moving with a pickup truck sounds miserable. Why not just rent a uhaul?
I'm a married father of 3 with 1/4 acre of property. I did fine without a truck for years, but I bought an old pickup for $5k last year as our second family vehicle.
You can certainly make do with a smaller vehicle, but there are these occasional things that make having a truck suuuuper convenient. Some personal examples from the last year:
* Needed to top dress my lawn and it only takes 3 loads of soil from IFA to cover my 1/4 acre
* My father (who lives very close) bought a boat knowing he could use my truck to haul it when necessary. And yes, he talked to me about it first, and my family gets to use it whenever we want.
* I built a treehouse in this giant willow in my front yard and could not have hauled the lumber or fireman's pole without a truck
* With 5 people in the family we get huge Costco runs regularly, these are moderately easier to haul in the back of the truck.
* I get social capital when bringing my truck to any family or friend moving parties
* Used it to haul lumber, tools, and people when the extended family participated in our family cabin area's work day
* Hauled my father inlaw's motorcycle+ATV trailer on a family outing
IMO not everyone needs one, but in a community or geographically close family it is always nice to have that person you can call to borrow their truck, and if you're the one that has the truck then you get social capital when lending it and you also don't have to borrow one yourself.
For us since it's a second vehicle it does sit idle most of the time while we use the minivan for typical travel needs. But I have space to park it, and the truck obviously isn't wasting gas when we're not using it. And since we paid cash and it was cheap, there's just not much of a downside to keeping it around.
A truck in an urban area doesn't seem any stupider than a sports car. It's just a fun vehicle that people like to drive.
Aside from the Hauling and Towing. The primary reason I prefer Trucks and Full Size SUV's is the Ride Height.
I am 6' 2", Climbing in and out of a Car that sits 6in's off the ground is not fun for me, and I do not want to do that every day.
I prefer lateral movements, and a Truck or Full Size SUV's standard Height is just about perfect for me
A thing like VW Touran or Renault Scenic will do that for you with much smaller fuel consumption, better ride, and also easier parking in tight places. (I'm 6'2" = 188 cm and >100 kg and VW Golf Sportsvan is very convenient, no need to step much up or down).
(And they will tow the things that most people tow, like a trailer that weighs a ton).
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I'm a small car kind of guy myself and generally consider trucks in the city to be silly. my last roommate had an f150 though and there are a couple of advantages. some of the roads in my area are simply awful, so jarring to drive on in my car that I have to go 10mph under the speed limit sometimes. there are also poorly designed intersections where you can easily hop the curb if you're not careful. driving a big truck means you don't have to care about this stuff. you don't feel the bumps at speed and you can just drive right over the curb with no problem. people don't cut you off or pull other aggressive moves on you nearly as often. my roommate has driven away (after exchanging info!) from two accidents where the other car was totaled.
I don't want one myself, but I can understand the appeal.
Practical answer: the people who actually need to move furniture, or other large items, in a city environment use vans.
Look at businesses and what their fleet vehicles are. No one uses an F150 in the city. Why? Because thieves very often steal stuff from the flatbed. If you actually want to transport large, bulky items in a city environment, you need to close off the back so that no one can look in and see the cargo.
2020 Ford Transit-350 Cargo is $35k.
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F150 comes more in handy in rural areas, where there aren't thieves around. The flatbed is useful for hauling very large, oversized items, such as mountains of topsoil / compost, or rocks for your garden, or bundles of hay for stuff.
But when it comes to "city items" like furniture (often valuable furniture, so thieves want it), or large equipment like computer racks and servers... a van wins.
I think you're making a decent point, honestly. I live in a close-in suburb of a midwestern city and I think quite a few of the trucks in my neighborhood are probably 99% unnecessary from a utility standpoint. Having a reasonably sized pickup truck is a godsend for me right now, as I'm renovating our house and landscaping the yard. But frankly, since I work remotely, I really want this truck to be the last vehicle I ever purchase for myself (wife still commutes), and ideally we'll be a one-car household in the next 5 years.
For many, it is unneeded. For some, they only want the large vehicle, stability, and power for status or offroading. For some, they want to storage capacity for rare incidents. Some actually have use of it, just more rarely (say, a woodworking hobby). Then, certainly some professionals in construction have daily use of it.
Hard to judge which demographic you're looking at while driving around.
Back in the late 90's, for me anyway, buying a Ford Ranger strictly dominated just about any other choice. I didn't have a family/girlfriend so I didn't need the extra seats. 20mpg was pretty darn good compared to most trucks. The smaller cab meant I could heat/ac the interior pretty quickly. Easy to drive and maintain, and finally I had all that utility for when I needed it, which was rare but often enough to solve a lot of infrequent problems. It just seemed like the most practical choice. (I still have that truck, my family's other vehicle is a CRV.)
NYC is constantly choked for public parking and the rise of SUVs has made it so much worse. If every Ford Explorer owner bought a Mini Cooper we'd get 10,000 parking spaces back and less smog too.
Here in the southern US, it's mostly a status symbol that people delude themselves into thinking they have a utility need for. Typically people here will have at most 5-6 true needs for one each year, and deal with horrible gas economy (and blinding folks in sedans) since gas is cheap. Around here there's a lot of towing (boats, trailers, etc) but it's rare to see anyone make use of the bed.
Urban person here. Anything I go on a trip or go camping (many times a year), or have to move or help someone else move (unfortunately also many times a year), I wish I had a truck. I'm paying for a vehicle anyway, why not have one that does everything I need?
They are also useful if you own your own business that requires moving things around.
Note that I do not own a truck, I just wish I did.
I played in a band for years in Los Angeles and I loved being able to fit all of our gear into my truck on the weekends. Everyone was bummed when I finally sold the truck and bought a Prius. The Prius is surprisingly spacious and I could still fit my small drum kit and an amp or two but not our whole setup. Admittedly _much_ better for the weekday commute though.
As I told an old co-worker with a new 5 series BMW when he asked the same question: differentiator, every douche bag in LA has a BMW.
People assume trucks are safer in accidents, even though that is by most measures a wrong assumption- Humans are irrational in that way.
(the other big reasons for their popularity is status signalling, and perverse incentives created by regulation of "passenger cars" as a category that have negatively impacted the quality of "regular cars" in the US.)
We have a term for this:
"Cuz 'Merica"
Yep, Americans love to overcompensate. It is in our DNA.
You know the answer to this. People like status, image, and power.
You heard the man. He's going to buy one for "status symbol".
God save us...
Better than the same person buying a gasoline or diesel engine pickup.
White people love boots and pickup trucks. That’s like asking my uncle why he has a $1k sound system in his $2k car (black folks love bass). I think it’s a cultural thing.
The US is a very wasteful society. It makes sense that they'd want to burn twice as much fuel as necessary to get themselves around. Watch Wall-E again to see where we're heading. Those "SUVs" are quite literally obese versions of the cars of the past. Obese vehicles to carry around obese, useless bodies.
Nationalistic slurs aren't ok. Would you please stick to the rules so we don't have to keep banning you?
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
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I feel like I am taking crazy pills with the amount of good sentiment to this design. This thing is absolutely fugly. The guys over at Rivian must be having a party right now.
As someone with a strong preference for a classical aesthetic I'm finding it hard to reason just how drawn to this vehicle I am.
It's just so outrageously different, offers the functionality of both a truck and the tech and performance of a Tesla, and isn't comparable with other 'trucks' which I'd argue are homogeneous in nature, cliche, particularly un-aesthetically pleasing and are synonymous with gas-guzzling North American indulgence.
Regardless, it's another instance of Musk pushing boundaries which I find myself continually applauding.
How old are you? This Reminds of what we thought the future would look like in the 80s.
I’d totally buy a reasonably priced car with this aesthetic.
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I'm tired of curvy trucks anyways. Maybe it's a good time to go back to something more straight. I also like that the exterior can take such a beating. It doesn't make sense that a tough pick-up can get so easily dinged and scratched. I would MUCH rather have that durable shell.
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The fact that you hate modern truck design means you are not representative of 99% of truck buyers. Have you noticed the Honda Ridgeline has completely fell in line with other manufactures styling because of I presume market pressure?
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Whether you like it or hate it, you have to take your hat off to the Tesla marketing department. This thing is a meme on wheels.
_Everyone_ is going to see this, have an opinion on it, and want to know what everyone else's opinion on it is.
Exactly right. It's polarizing. Very polarizing, if this comment thread is any indication. And the pole of people who absolutely love it will buy it. That group of people does not need to be large for this to be successful.
This is a great example of the marketing strategy that advocates focusing on a small group of very passionate customers. If you can create a set of fanatical early adopters for a brand-new product, you're on your way to success. Very few products achieve immediate mainstream success and assuming that Tesla won't likely have the production capacity to meet mainstream demand anyway, this is a very smart play.
It looks like the attempt of a “futuristic” vehicle in an early 90’s low polygon video game.
Reading these responses makes me think I’m out of the loop on some joke. Seriously. I had no doubt when I came to the discussion that all the comments would be about how ugly it is.
Maybe this is one of those white/gold vs. black/blue dress things. Or the “yanni” thing.
I’m blown away by any of the comments that find the design appealing.
>It looks like the attempt of a “futuristic” vehicle in an early 90’s low polygon video game.
In a world where every manufacturer makes cars that look basically the same as every other car in the world, I'm fucking stoked on this.
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It seems to me that most of the engineering is in the 'skateboard', There's no reason they can't sell the same chassis with two different bodies. - The cybertruck for people who want that. - A more conventional body for anyone else.
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And here you go. The Walrus ATV from Carrier Command.
http://www.retrogamer.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/launchi...
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It's almost a concentrate of the 80s born crowd childhood. Yes it's low poly, you can add 80s neon design cues:
- https://imgur.com/a/eHUNSqu
- https://imgur.com/a/xt3Cbm4
- https://imgur.com/a/kYy7mVv
- <insert delorean bare metal>
You can even see a little Mad Max oriented punk on elon buddies clothing on stage.
Note that Peugeot attempted a similar thing with the 508 electric revival recently.
It looks like a shark. There's definitely a deliberately threatening aesthetic to it. That's likely why it's so polarizing. As someone who likes medieval weapons, predators, and martial arts competitions, I definitely find it a beautiful design.
Just needs more spikes on the front ;)
> early 90’s low polygon video game.
Seeing the truck I was immediately reminded of the original Death Track game.
Low poly is the new black.
Do you find hypermasculine aesthetics (big game hunting, big guns, aggressive looking trucks) appealing though?
>I feel like I am taking crazy pills with the amount of good sentiment to this design. This thing is absolutely fugly.
The funny part to me is that this design is something I saw often maybe 20 years ago. It's the stereotypical future car that major automotive design departments often came up with, and sketched up in programs like Alias AutoStudio, back when it was still Alias. None of the designs ever saw prototypes let alone production, I'm guessing largely because they were too radical for the time and thus seen as too risky.
It's like it's half future car of the early 2000s, and the other half a nod to DeLorean.
Flash forward to 2019, the world's falling apart and going crazy at the same time, things feel a lot more surreal, advancements are becoming too numerous for the average person to keep track of, AI is a big deal, smartphones and all manner of tech are just a boring fact of life now, and as always the future is right around the corner, but for real this time.
Likewise, 80s and early 90s nostalgia is in vogue right now. Cyberpunk 2077 is nearing release. For the target audience of this car, they remember the 80s because they either grew up in it or lived it.
When you lay eyes on this thing, you immediately go "What the fuck, is that a real car?" I can think of no better marketing.
It's a rather genius design in my opinion, a retrofuture tribute to a future that never was, but now is.
Analysis aside, I tend to agree with you: it's pretty ugly, but for some reason I really like it.
The look grows on me the more I look at the model. I’m used to thinking trucks are fugly, though. They’re often gigantic rectangles that I associate with noise and function over form. This is definitely more progressive looking than the blocky designs I see on the road.
I personally hope it fails and they redesign since I don't want to be forced to drive around in a city with a bunch of these on the street - they are that ugly to me, viscerally ugly. And I waited for the better part of a year to watch yesterday's live stream, hoping they would get it right while worried they would miss the practical side of things after the odd choice on the model x doors which allow for no roof racks. meh. But the basic tech is phenomenal.
>This thing is absolutely fugly.
Fugly is in the eye of the beholder. To me this is an outstanding design, with crazy cool cyberpunk inspiration, and finally a fucking bold design move -- 99% of cars looking the same shit, even sports cars like Lamborginis sticking to the same designs since the 80s...
I've had to see such an interesting take since the DeLorean....
That's because the look of a Lamborghini is one of it's core signature elements. They could design a very nice looking car, but if it doesn't look like a Lamborghini, then a lot of their client base would be disappointed.
You'll notice this pattern with many of the really high end cars. Some signature elements are always present and evolve only very slowly over time. You could call it the master stroke, it's what makes a particular brand distinct from others. This is deliberate and I for one like that.
A complete newcomer can design whatever they want right away.
That's because the Lamborghinis from the 1970s and 1980s looked amazing!!
Your opinion may vary somewhat
It looks like some old cyberpunk idea of what the future would look like. For that, I love the design.
But it’s absolutely hideous without taking it in the context of resembling sci-fi. The wheels just look goofy.
Now if it concealed the tires, it’d look great. Just a solid block of metal. But it’d also be hell for maintenance.
It would be cool to have if we were always in the smoke ridden neon illuminated world of Blade Runner. But outside of that I think it is pretty fugly.
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I love the idea of a perfect meme vehicle. Almost bosozoku like. But I'm guessing it won't do well in the market
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Goofy? Having driven through rural America this summer, the thing will fall right in.
Agreed, it reminds me of alienware laptops. Had all these good specs but everybody was too embarrassed to be seen in public with one.
I think it's genius. A lot of pickup truck owners seem to feel that trucks are manly and Tesla owners are wimps. This post-apocalyptic nightmare of a truck will make it hard to keep feeling that way.
I hope they've included biodefense mode.
This is a really good point. Hard for others to make fun of your fancy tree hugging electric truck when it looks like that.
I agree, it looks like a stealth bomber fucked a Prius.
A stealth bomber from the 70s!
Apparently the F117 looks like that because they didn't have enough computational power to simulate more complex surfaces.
> The guys over at Rivian must be having a party right now
Except the base Tesla is $20,000 cheaper than the base Rivian.
The High end Telsa (with 500+ miles of range and 2.9 0-60) is the same price as the base Rivian.
Rivian are shitting themselves right now about pricing.
$30,000 cheaper you mean. The mid-tier dual-motor is $20,000 cheaper.
Honestly this could be a brilliant strategy to destroy competition if I didn't think they were so inept.
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I know that design is totally subjective, but somehow this reminds of the Homer-Car design-wise. Is it just me or do a lot of the late Tesla / SpaceX designs look like a 7 year-old draw rockets and future-cars back in the 70s and 80s?
We could probably learn a lot from 7 year olds. It is an incredible age. First grasp of reason and a real understanding of the world, and nothing has been beat out of them yet.
Ten bucks says this thing has never seen a wind tunnel, which is strange for something that's meant to be energy efficient
Designed for suburban speeds - air resistance is not that important.
It obviously is. The front is all the same angle.
Beauty must be in the eye of the beholder. This just screams FU gas at the top of its lungs.
As a rider who hates breathing diesel particulates, I love it.
The current F150 is probably the ugliest car I’ve ever seen, but I understand that sells pretty well. Granted, I am not the target demographic.
I had never thought I'd want a truck. This though is totally retro and I absolutely love it. Looks like Elon Musk is finally making stuff that's something Tony Stark would've created (aesthetically). Seems very Iron Man to me.
Having grown up in the 90s with a dream of becoming an automotive designer one of my favorite designs was that of the Lamborghini Countach (1974). The Cybertruck design is reminiscent of that design (to me), and I think that's one of the reasons it's drawing me in so strongly.
I think you're just too used to the kool-aid. From an engineering perspective, curvy cars are a disgusting PIA. There's no way to work on them without special tools, every dent is a big deal... they're like long fake painted nails: a total hinderance to work.
This car looks like I could beat the fuck out of it and the fix it with a sheet of metal and either a welder, some bolts, or some rivets. I see beauty in adaptability, which is something modern cars have none of.
I find it hard to believe the typical market for pickups would actually find this an attractive vehicle as well. I keep seeing "Masculine" referring to the design, but this looks like a fairly poor attempt at superficial masculinity, and definitely not a genuinely rugged and practical vehicle, which is what is generally considered attractive in a pickup or offroad vehicle. Purpose is the aesthetic, rather than aesthetics being the purpose.
> definitely not a genuinely rugged and practical vehicle
Why would you say that? I think its ugly but maybe if all trucks looked this way we'd think the current ones are the ugly ones.
I'd say it looks like this BECAUSE it's rugged and practical.
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Yea, it feels like a parody of a Tesla vehicle, especially when you see the interior.
Nothing some paint and a headlight rack can't fix.
I can’t wait to see one with a gunrack.
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I'm not a design expert by any amount. But I really like its shape. Maybe it's because I was an 80s child. It's like Robocop's car. The design attracts me much more than the more ... conventional, rouded? Tesla vehicles.
You do know how G Wagon, the ultimate $ symbol, looks like, right?
More or less still like the first generation of it?
I think the $30000 price difference would put a lot of panic in that laugh if Rivian didn't have some insane pre-orders in the bag from Amazon.
Rivian pretty much is half Amazon, preorders from yourself dont count for much.
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It's big, bad and punk hitting the current trends. In a decade we're going to look back on this and wonder what we were thinking.
I'm wondering what they're thinking...right now.
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And the Rivian has a lot of smart features truck owners like.
To me it looks like the Tesla is for people who want that truck and the Rivian for people who need a truck.
And yeah imho the Cybertruck is very ugly. It looks like a copy of the Maserati Boomerang (1971) which was futuristic back then.
But maybe Shirley Bassey was right: it's all history repeating.
I love it. It's like one of the 'all sharp angles and super futurey and stuff!' cars from an 80s sci-fi film, where they've taken the body off a real car and welded up some ludicrous replacement. I mean why not FFS - have you seen what Chinese tastes are doing to BMW's grills?
It reminds me of a Prius and the other early EVs that weren't very popular exactly because they stood out in a bad way. I think part of Tesla's appeal is that their cars look mostly "normal", so to have this ridiculous stand-out design is unusual.
I don't like the tail end look - I wish they had kept the tailgate mostly vertical. However, if the marketing is to be believed re: the shape of the vehicle lending itself to its safety and strength, then I see beauty in function.
Yes it's not "right", fugly is relative to context, trends can make something fugly pretty. It's on the extreme-limit side of the spectrum. It's probably gonna have enough buyers to have its place IMO.
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/De_gustibus_non_est_disputandum
The Rivian is so uninteresting though. It's small and dainty and looks like a Honda, which isn't a good thing for a truck.
It’s ugly but it’s different. People can see you have one from 8 miles away. That’s an essential part of a status symbol. Like the extremely ugly Louis Vuitton print.
Your not Crazy... I would buy a Rivian over this every day
It looks absurdly expensive to produce, and is ugly as sin.
Some people won't "get it", and thats OK.
It's kind of an f'off statement considering the electric mustang looks a lot like a tesla.
I know it can't be, the design has come out too soon.
Yup
ew the rivian design looks 10x worse than the tesla one
Ugly is the purpose. And I fucking love it.
Rivian and Bollinger both.
It looks like a DeLorean.
really? I think it looks so awesome, like a car out of Halo!
I think this really comes down to expectations. Imo, Tesla is a luxury brand. I get that some people feel like the Model 3 is a Tesla for the common man but the common man is either buying used or they're buying something that can be reliably fueled. That being said, and the reason for saying it, in the world of luxury brands idea matters too. The idea that an electric vehicle can compete on most of the spec sheet with a combustion/hybrid engine is sexy to people with futurist enthusiasms because electric things are being pushed as the sexy eco-friendly future right now. Obviously that's all just my own opinions, but I've yet to see much else to explain Tesla's balance sheets (plain incompetence isn't something I'm willing to buy into from the CEO that's working at innovating the astro services market as we speak).
I guess taste really is subjective because this is the best looking truck I have seen in my life
My initial thought was that I could probably sketch this thing in CAD in like ten seconds. Rectangle. Triangle. Extrude. I'm sure the person at Tesla to whom that task was assigned enjoyed that aspect of the design.
You couldn't invent a more polar opposite of Steve Jobs than Elon Musk.
VERY disorganized presenting. Badly rehearsed. Awkward speech. Speech is almost never in sync with slides. Demos failed spectacularly. The rest of the event was him with a backdrop of two broken windows.
They didn't show the interior, and barely talked about the bed. Is this even good as a pickup truck? Is there enough storage?
This all seemed hastily put together (probably as a response to the other pickup truck press). But for an Elon presentation, this is pretty normal (high awkwardness).
Signed, Model 3 Driver (who loves his car).
I had never watched him give a presentation before.
I started at, "This is terrible, this guy is crazy"
By about halfway through though it turned into, "This guy is crazy, and I really hope he succeeds"
Wanting to see him succeed or not aside, I find this far more intriguing and alluring. Apple keynote, especially recent ones, have become so cookiecutter and predictable. The surprise and strangeness factor is what makes Tesla events so irresistible. You truly feel like anything could happen, even the window breaking TWICE.
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Agreed. I continue to want Tesla to wildly succeed. I don’t know anything about actual pickup trucks or why people buy them. Which is why I mainly commented on the presentation style.
And yet I think he’s the closest analogue to Steve Jobs. :)
A passionate person in charge, who tries to make the things he wants to use.
I wonder if the awkward persona isn’t intentional, i.e. to project a certain image, perhaps to appear less intimidating and more approachable, the guy you could nerd out about stuff with.
Wholeheartedly agree. Musk doesn't seem to give a shit about presentations. I won't be surprised if he doesn't even throw a fit at the window breakage fiasco. In Jobs world, that team would have been fired by now.
Musk is a tinkerer and it shows in all the aspects that you have outlined.
Regarding the interior - some 3-4 guys stepped out of the truck implying it must be quite spacious. An ATV could fit in the bed. So this truck is most likely going to sell. Pricing is spot on.
6 people stepped out
I have a feeling he is used to his staff accidentally shattering extremely expensive things at critical moments on camera by now.
Elon keeps screwing up his presentations, and people keep buying his products. He give me hope that a sleek presentation isn't all that matters. That humanity still cares about content, not just the outward appearances.
Can someone that has actually worked closely with Musk confirm: is his thought process and speech as utterly disjointed as happens in most of his presentations?
Or, is this a nutty professor kinda of shtick that Elon thinks makes him seem more personable?
His presentations are painful to watch.
That either-or choice isn't fair. I'd guess it's a third - his mind races ahead (or off to the side, or the clouds) when he's doing presentations.
Many people have poor presenting skills. Just few of them get to be CEO and still insist on being the public face of the company
In the end of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ36Kt7UVg he is more relaxed that I have ever seen. I don't think there is any acting in his presentations
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I think he's just nervous like your average spaz out nerd is
He's not a native English speaker and that has an impact.
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I replied to someone else with a very similar response, but I always thought the awkwardness of Elon giving presentations adds a certain level of sincerity. However, I do agree that some more specifics regarding interior, the bed, etc would have been nice.
Signed, not a Tesla owner :(
There's something charming about it - even though it has the performance and characteristics of a cheesy off-strip magic show on talent show night
My question: Can it fit a sheet of plywood in the bed.
"The Cybertruck is 230.9 inches long and sports a 149.9-inch wheelbase with a 6.5-foot-long, 57-inch-wide bed out back." By comparison, an F-150 has 50.6" between the wheelhouses.
Here's a picture of the bed, just before the ATV drives up to it. Note the wheelhouses don't impinge upon the cargo bed at all.
https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5dd768642c8...
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Can it haul a "fifth wheel" trailer?
in some orientation? most likely. but not flat, the bed is 6.5' long, so no 4x8s.
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It's not a work truck.
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At the very end they brought out an ATV and put it in the bed. With the exception that it looks pretty far out there the specs are certainly impressive.
I'm willing to bet this truck is going to outsell the Model 3 and Y combined. Tesla is getting even further and further from the restrictions of ICE vehicle design.
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I think there's a bit of an endearing "Oh elon" quality to his demeanor that seems more authentic than a polished CEO.
I've seen Elon say he spends about 1% (or something like it) of his time for marketing/presentation preparation. And I think it included press-interviews/presentation-prep/etc.
And he was planning/hoping to reduce it even more.
From what you say, it seems Elon achieved his goal regarding his time management goal.
And I also remember some saying Apple engineers basically spent their time all year preparing for Jobs' next upcoming presentation. :)
> But for an Elon presentation, this is pretty normal (high awkwardness).
Give me the high-functioning aspie CEO who puts all their energy into realizing a brilliant vision, and has none left over to game their audience with 'charisma' (e.g., Adam Neumann). Not sure that Steve Jobs was much of a normie either - though possibly his meditation practice had some effect to his conduct.
> You couldn't invent a more polar opposite of Steve Jobs than Elon Musk.
Jobs would start off describing a common problem before unveiling the product which inevitably solves said problem. This often brought cheers that felt genuine.
Musk simply shows something bizarre and talks about how they made it, never how it solves your problems (other than a desire for the latest tech). edit Regarding the transition to EV vehicles, that's what Musk always says about new models, it's not a new thing.
Didn't he start by saying the trucks in this category are number 1 sellers and to move everyone to sustainable energy, trucks need to go electric?
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Lol it's absurd to say the cheers didn't feel genuine. The crowd was insanely hype about this.
was there a video? not there now
Here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwvDOdBHYBw
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Does the presentation really matter? 99% of people who will buy one of these were not watching. They'll just see the pictures online later.
I watched it, I cringed, I still put $100 down on a top-end model, hoping I'll have the cash when it arrives 2+ years hence.
Thing is: though the glass demo failed, we still know this guy comes thru with great stuff - he'll get that problem fixed, and we'll have videos soon of someone literally shooting up the truck with practically no damage (glass included). The man managed to get rockets to land & reuse; fixing the glass will be resolved next week.
I'm not sure if I'm thrilled or dismayed by the exterior design, but it's innovative and futuristic. It pushes the state of the industry forward.
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No, but I think a lot of people group Musk and Jobs together. It's not that one is "better" than the other or anything like that, but rather they're very different people.
Yeah, a lot of people talking about how ugly it is. But that's exactly what a pick-up has always been. A big ugly thing with a bed in the back and a lot of utility most people didn't even use.
Some models over the years have looked decent. Many have (Ford especially) have been dog ugly. I could see this thing taking off, though not sure how rural truck owners would take to electric.
Edit: On second thought, rural truck owners must go through a ton of gas. I bet they would love to own something like this.
Edit edit: I also love that this thing can take a beating on the exterior. You don't have to worry about scratches in the paint or dents from shopping cart accidents.
I have a family member who has a modified Nissan truck, that is currently getting 9 mpg and driving him crazy because of it (it was a whopping 13 mpg stock). He's stupidly spending a fortune in gas. There is certainly going to be a huge market for electric trucks. I don't know if this is one of the winners, it's a super odd design choice so it's impossible to tell how the market will respond ahead of time, however some companies are going to win very big in the segment. I'm pulling for Tesla, they've placed a lot of early, risky bets trying to push passenger vehicles forward.
Right. People will spend 50K on a truck because it's a major part of their livelihood and then the gas will be a big burden. This could help a lot in those cases.
Who cares about rural customers. How will the suburbs like it? That's who actually buys all those trucks.
Days after the Jeep Gladiator (a Wrangler pickup) was available, I saw several in the suburbs. This is Tesla territory, so come 2022 there will be a bunch of Cybertrucks taking the kids to school.
How many rural areas have you been to? I see small houses with a half-dozen pickups sitting around all the time when I get more than 100 miles or so out of a major city. And places like ranches, farms, and orchards seem to operate small fleets of them.
Of course, they usually span the past few decades of makes/models, but there are plenty of towns where the trucks outnumber the people.
I think one big issue will be that a lot of people are like 50 miles from the nearest major highway or town, which makes the range a bigger issue for daily use.
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Solar has been a hit for some rural folks as you can go off grid & make your own power. An electric vehicle could theoretically go part & parcel with that, although you'd need a large array.
when the Fukushima disaster happened in 2011 and the surrounding areas became no-go zone, gasoline cars were stuck because no gas tankers were coming in to refill the gas stations.
But electric cars were charging from local solar powered recharging stations just fine.
> that's exactly what a pick-up has always been. A big ugly thing
As a former truck owner I have to disagree. I like modern trucks and with a few exceptions think they've looked great since they were invented. The truck shown by Tesla does not appeal to me.
Frankly I think it's odd how one-sided the upvotes are going in this thread. I really don't think Tesla would bother astroturfing on HN so I dunno... I guess HN folks really like the design. Personally I just don't see it having wide appeal, especially among truck owners.
A Ford F150 for example, looks 'masculine'. The Tesla truck looks... sterile? It's like comparing a sledgehammer to a scalpel.
I'm assuming by "upvotes" you're referring to positive reactions to the design as opposed to the HN voting buttons.
The design, of course, is subjective. We'll be seeing professional commentary which may sway our opinion. I would be interested to see if there were design constraints which weighed heavily in the final design.
There's a prism of ugly and this truck fits in the region which I can live with. I have mostly found Ford designs to be ugly (1995 for example.) I also feel that truck designs have mostly been similar. If I find X year Ford to be ugly, then it's relative to the same year of Chevy. There's also utility ugly and the sort of ugly which attempts to be artistic but which fails into something I would be embarrassed to drive (curves and paint schemes which aren't meant to be functional and just look bad.)
The Tesla Cybertruck has the feel of minimalist utility. It's also bold and different. Unlike the Rivian, it's not trying to be anything like the current state of the art of trucks. I think it will have a lot of appeal for being different and for having crazy specs. It's ugly, but I want one.
I have been seeing good comments pointing out problems. For example, it doesn't seem to be accommodating to accessories. Maybe this is something which will get worked out before it hits production.
History will judge this thing better than we can. Regardless of our opinion, it will be interesting to see if the design sticks.
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Anything about trucks in HN (or the internet really) will devolve into complaint fests about American trucks and, their size, their faux masculinity, how they are sub-par vehicles, etc. In that environment any sort of perceived challenge to the big 4 (Toyota Tundra included because it's the most American truck you can imagine, horrifying gas mileage, huge as hell) and any kind complaining about trucks is encouraged.
I don't really mind, it doesn't affect me one way or another, but I do find the consistency in these threads curious. Sometimes I chalk it up to probably far more European commenters than I would have guessed, but also it's just the demo of HN or people that spend too much time arguing about things on the internet (see the comment section of Jalopnik). You could easily turn loose a markov chain based comment generator on one of these threads and rise to the top.
This is basically cultural conditioning and selection bias. You've already owned a truck, you think they look great, you think they're masculine, you compare it to a sledgehammer. It seems marketing has worked very effectively on you.
A Ford F150 looks blobby and and archaic. The Tesla truck looks like a fucking stealth fighter. How more masculine can you get?
> Yeah, a lot of people talking about how ugly it is. But that's exactly what a pick-up has always been.
That's not universal, these things are common in Australia and look pretty sleek: https://www.google.com/search?q=commodore+ute&safe=active&hl...
But even the less pretty ones had that sort of brutal, functional, serious look. This ... does not.
That truck you link looks horrible. I cannot fathom how some designer thought that looked good. It’s like they worked halfway on the design and then pushed straight to production.
Then again some people feel the same way about the Tesla truck. Personally I think the Cybertruck looks incredible.
That's not a pick-up. ;)
That's a car with a bed, like an El Camino.
God I'm laughing so hard at those pictures. That is the vehicle equivalent of a mullet, business in front and party in the back.
UTE, the symbol of bogan is sleek? These are a joke for anyone but complete degenerates.
I want this car, but other pickups have started looking pretty decent for the past two decades now. To put it lightly, the cyber truck’s look is not conservative at all
Rural owners? You mean people with a ton of cheap land to put a solar farm onto?
Rural doesn't imply the individual owns land. Rural does imply long distances, modest incomes, etc. I certainly wouldn't want to charge an electric vehicle @ $0.14/KWH and I don't have the option for solar.
I have a Toyota Tacoma. I expect it will go well into the multi-hundred miles (typical for Tacomas), I have 4 jerry cans filled for when exploring off-road or for times like "oh hey, the power is out, the pump in a rural town doesn't have power".
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My bit about rural truck owners was more about demographic than power source. I have lived much of my life in rural areas of Idaho and Montana. The looks of this thing is NO problem. People will love it. But as a big life change, going electric is a big leap when throwing down that 50K for the family truck. I guess we'll see.
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I find it awesome. Kudos to Tesla for willingness to experiment with form and functionality. The car industry nowadays is all too predictable and boring. Great job Elon.
i read predictable and boring as reliable and safe. and many companies are innovating in design.
Sadly, that's not the case. Car companies are just trying to catch up with whatever seems to sell at the moment. And if there's a new model, it is usually related to a some "successful model" from the past or an existing model is given a crossover look. And even these new cars have too many issues.
Literally all trucks look the same. Where is the innovation ? Don't show me a concept car.
So many people tripping over themselves to criticize this.
But hey, everyone is talking about it. $0 ad spend.
It elicits strong reactions. People seem to love it or hate it. Far better than indifference.
Not a truck owner, nor in the market, but I appreciate bold moves and deviation from the norm.
You know what would've generated as much conversation? Just an electric truck with towing capability and decent range. They didn't need to make it looks so awful to generate conversation.
... and you know, Rivian already did that, and the base model costs $20,000 more than the base telsa.
The flat surfaces and not-stamped stainless are about ease of manufacture - https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pi...
Yep, I agree fully
$0 seems a little off.
Marketing and advertisement are two different things
As a car guy, this is an amazing truck. Dual-motor can easily tow track car and all necessary gear. Built-in compressor means you can use air-tools on the go without a generator. Maybe even fit a quick jack in the trunk or trailer. AND it drives itself to the track. Never need to bring spare batteries for tools. It’s insane that it can do this, and likely win every drag race against street cars. All while blasting the Bladerunner theme on max volume.
This thing may be ugly but there are other concerns for people using this like a real truck.
-The bed is not easily accessible from the sides
-It's unibody(ask Honda about that)
-It's stainless steel which would make repairing difficult. You will now have to paint that raw steel after hammering out any dents after an accident just like the Delorean
Thank you! I was thinking the same things. More concerned about using the vehicle as a pickup than the design. I didn't see places to mount a rack, and only a few places that might be holes for straps.
Why would you paint it? It's not painted in the first place.
Do you know what is involved in "hammering" out dents in a collision and how the metal looks after? Also you may need to then fill some surface irregularities with a filler.
This is why Deloreans that got into accidents were usually painted.
Of course if you can easily replace an entire panel with a new one, this can be done. On cars the rear quarter panel cant be "replaced" like the front quarter panel which is just bolted on.
The design looks like a prepper's wet dream. But the pricing is incredible. Like $3k more than the Model Y's base model. And half as much as Rivian's base model, with the top end model costing the same as Rivian' base. Cybertruck wins in every spot but design against the Rivian, IMO. Frankly, some people I know that buy trucks would buy the Cybertruck because it looks badass (to some), like a stealth fighter.
I kept waiting for the sledgehammer guy to hit it and the walls to fall off, with a real truck inside.
Rivian will ship two or three years before this thing.
Doubt it. They have no experience with volume production. (Unless they basically outsource production to Ford.)
I think they're going to be dealing with the slow ramp up that Tesla had for years before hitting mass production. Maybe they will release first, but at a decent volume? I'm skeptical.
Then again Tesla is well known for missing deadlines too!
AS a Truck Guy who has owned a lot of Trucks and Currently owns a F-150 XLT 4x4 and has Owns no less than 8 other Trucks and SUV's from Ford....
This is going to flop, big time. This is the worst looking Truck I have seen in a LONG time, this will not appeal to people that buy the Best selling Truck on the market, The F-150.
I have no interest in buying this, and i would not drive it even if they gave me one for free. Sure the performance is there, ofcourse when Ford and other manufactures release their Electric Trucks then when can do a Apple to Apple comparison.
I will be waiting on the Electric F-150, which should have comparable specs to the Rivian, and I would much rather have a Rivian Truck than this monstrosity
Why is this being downvoted? It's an opposing view and they are being honest. I ordered a Model X, getting it in two weeks, and am looking for a pickup truck to eventually move to after the Model X. I would not buy this, sorry. People like me will compare Rivian to CyberTruck and I think it's a natural comparison. We aren't going to compare traditional pickups, though, because people like me don't want an ICE pickup truck. With that said, why would I not buy a Rivian? The plan is to wait till they've produced it for a year, compare to current electric pickup market, take advantage of Federal Tax credit of Rivian and evaluate if it's worth it. I am the suburban guy, I am a Tesla buyer, and I pride myself on engineering + beautiful design. Tesla HAD that for all their vehicles, imo. Cybertruck is a niche vehicle, I wish it well, I grew up in the 80's so it is nostalgic but omg it makes me want to vomit. Sorry, I wanted to buy it, really did, but 80's design for cars, clothes, and hairstyles was a nightmare that I couldn't wake up from, kinda like the shirt that stopped halfway down your waist. I am not an 80's fan....born 1977.
In my case, while I like the aesthetic, I think aesthetic considerations aren't supposed to figure into buying a truck. Trucks exist to do work, buying one on aesthetics seems counter to the whole reason to own a truck in the first place.
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Born same time, love all that shit still. :)
At first I was dumbfounded. Like, they cannot be serious.
Then after a little while of looking at it, I thought, well, perhaps it is just crazy enough to work. Definitely thinking outside the box.
Then a bit later in the evening, I was struck by how in the space of a couple hours it had aged in my eyes, and it wasn't aging well. As soon as the 'interesting' wore off, all I can see is how boring the design really is.
By itself, maybe not such a big deal, pickups aren't meant to be exciting. They are successful because of their utility. King of the road, riding high, the modern incarnation of a 70s land yacht, very spacious inside, well appointed, and incidentally able to haul stuff when you want, pull stuff when you want. The very definition of function over form. The opposite of Cybertruck.
I'll wait and see how it plays out, since this is obviously a prototype of a prototype (read MotorTrend's writeup, they had early access and it was still coming together in the last couple weeks). The windows aren't street legal, the bumpers are not street legal, almost certainly the headlights and taillights aren't, etc. A lot of the actual finished product has yet to be designed, so I will withhold judgement until we see what it turns out to be.
I had a similar then different reaction . First I didn’t think it was real. Then I thought it was hideous. Now after looking at and reading about it more I’m starting to like it. I’m hoping Tesla starts using more of the same design cues in their other products.
I agree that electric trucks are important to combat climate change, but wow. If their goal is to sell to the market that buys pickup trucks, I think the styling is way off the mark.
Huge, beastly trucks are a status symbol and signalling to others that you are are certain demographic. Same reason some people buy cheap cars and add shiny wheels and lights. Same reason some people buy BMWs and Mercedes. These are all part of socioeconomic norms. I don't see how the normal truck crowd will latch on to this.
The specs are pretty impressive though. 500 mile range got my attention.
Eh, that portion of the truck crowd was never gonna go for a truck that doesn't make loud ICE noises anyway.
I think the goal was to look heavy duty (which it does), not big, which is for people with insecurity issues.
Rest assured, if you slap a "Punisher" sticker on this thing, it will be welcome at any roadside bar in Texas. It looks like the sort of thing the SEALs would roll up in.
I don't think we can know how the market that buys pickup trucks will react to this without running the experiment. Pickup truck buyers haven't had the option of buying a pickup truck that doesn't look like a conventional pickup truck.
Is the normal truck crowd going to latch onto a $70k truck?
I think this is going to resonate really well with techies. Not a huge demographic, but one that can afford it.
The market for sci-fi/cyberpunk cars won't be huge, but in exchange, this looks like it'll capture _all_ of that market, as opposed to a small slice of a more conventional one.
When I lived in rural Missouri, I was shocked at how many of my neighbors and colleagues were shelling out $70k for their pickup trucks.
The price here is not a concern at all. The design.... not so sure about that.
Take a look at the FJ Cruiser, or the Wrangler. This fits right in with that look.
There's also a Chevy truck with a toy look... But I can't remember the name.
For the Hummer crowd?
People don’t buy cheap cars to belong to a demographic, they do it because they don’t have money for better generally
I appreciate Tesla for taking the pick up truck use cases and building something from scratch. This is the first pick up truck I’ve ever thought to myself “makes sense and I want it.” The ICE trucks have needy engines and most of the time the power is unused. The air suspension seems like a natural fit and I’m surprised it’s not already common place. I would love to take the Cybertruck off-roading. I’m also excited to see these on the road. It will make my inner kid feel like we finally made it to the future.
>The air suspension seems like a natural fit and I’m surprised it’s not already common place.
IIRC this was a thing on land rovers back in the day, and was notoriously unreliable. It's a great idea in theory, but much more difficult to get right than a bunch of steel springs.
the new defender is back, and looks pretty good: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-land-rover-d...
Depends on the truck, our Ram EcoDiesel gets better mileage(30mpg) than any of our Subarus ever did.
That said you see a lot of 3/4 ton daily drivers that only see a tow hitch one or two weekends out of the year.
Don't forget to adjust those mpg figures by ~13% for the higher energy density (and CO2 emissions) for diesel vs gasoline. So 30mpg diesel is ~ like 26.5 mpg gasoline.
>The ICE trucks have needy engines and most of the time the power is unused.
Can you explain...? You have so many options with ICE trucks, most of which now include turbo's... which only produce "unused power" when you put the pedal to the floor. Otherwise they sip gas (relatively speaking).
>The air suspension seems like a natural fit and I’m surprised it’s not already common place.
Literally an option if not standard feature on all new trucks... have you actually looked at anything else or just making uneducated comments?
You and your friends can feel free to downvote away, but have the guts to at least attempt to refute my statements...
It kind of looks like a Pontiac Aztek to me—if the Aztek happened to exist in the 2019 of Blade Runner and not the 2001 of reality.
https://www.thrillist.com/cars/the-pontiac-aztec-was-the-big...
This feels more like if Master Chief drove an Aztek
I hadn’t thought about this looking like the Aztek of Warthogs, but you’re right.
Walter White just put in his pre-order.
Performance is nuts as is affordability, looks like an evil cop or military truck in a dystopian future though.
For the 30 seconds I saw before the stream went private that car-truck-thing looked like something out of Total Recall
So did the ATV!
I watched the whole thing. The stream never went private.
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Aesthetically speaking, it's a truck version of a DeLorean... which is growing on me the more I look at it.
Also, I don't know how they think they're going to get away with that tailgate design in the US. I love it, but the government doesn't allow brakelights to be on a moveable piece of bodywork (even though they have redundant lights under it). It's the same reason the back of the Ferrari California was so ugly... Ferrari learned this fact too late in the development process:
https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/heres-hilarious-story-fe...
There are brake lights inside the bed after the tailgate folds down, presumably for that purpose.
https://i.redd.it/8rpeg9pwi9041.jpg
Aren't physical side mirrors also still required in the US?
Yes, good catch. A driver's side mirror is required, passenger's side is optional (but recommended). But, there is some lobbying going on right now to allow cameras in place of mirrors (GM specifically is trying to get the new Corvette C8 rear view camera approved, which I'm guessing won't happen for launch in early 2020).
There are cars going on sale in the EU market (Audi E-tron, Honda E) with cameras replacing the side view mirrors. Presumably at some point these will also be allowed in the US.
I'm a child of the 80s. I remember StarFox and the F-117 stealth plane being the neatest stuff ever. The old lambo countache with the faceted shape that was almost starwars-y and was the coolest thing on wheels.
I'm nostalgic about those things.
So this polygonal look is targeting my demo.
...
That is the goddamned ugliest vehicle I've ever seen.
> That is the goddamned ugliest vehicle I've ever seen.
Let me try to beat that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Multipla#/media/File:Fiat...
What I find fascinating is how strong my negative visceral reaction to that thing is. It's a car. Who gives a shit whether it looks "good"? What even is my internal metric for "looks good"? I have no idea, but, God, this thing is revolting.
My hunch is that this is because we use some of the same mental wiring for processing human faces to process the front of a car. (Automotive designers refer to the front of a car as its "face".) So we think it's ugly because some of the same wiring that recoils to disfiguring human faces is kicking in.
I just stumbled onto: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26181746
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Unlike say the Aztec, this truck is “radically functional” design. No paint and simple geometry make it easier to manufacture and more durable.
I don’t think the mandate was “make this look strange” as much as it was “make this thing rugged and fast and powerful and we’re perfectly fine with it looking strange”.
We’ll see if they were successful, but I like the ambition. I’ll be curious, too, to see if some of this more radical thinking comes over to the Tesla Semi.
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I was discussing this the other day with an automotive designer. Yes Fiat Multipla is ugly, but imagine the courage Roberto Giolito (the designer of Multipla) had when he proposed this to the management of FCA! Almost nobody in modern automotive industry dares to match this outside of the concept cars.
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The Multipla was also very successful, and also happens to be one of the few Fiats that hold their value. A utility vehicle doesn't necessarily need to be attractive to be successful...
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Hey I rented one of these and actually was great, drove well, very practical, loads of space and lots of light.
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I think the S-Cargo is uglier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_S-Cargo
Also, it has a pun in the name.
On the rare occasions I see a Multipla in real life, I actually have feeling* of disgust and revulsion - it really is a hideously ugly car.
I think there is something insect-like about the bulbous part that houses the lights - I wonder if perhaps something about the shape is triggering something innate, similar to how we may be hard-wired to fear snakes?
I think the Fiat Multipla is distinct in that it is unlovably ugly.
I can get behind the ugliness of vehicles like the Cybertruck because it just looks absurd, but the Fiat is just grotesque.
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Only slightly worse:
https://media.wired.com/photos/593252a1edfced5820d0fa07/mast...
What on earth is that! :)
ok the multipla is clearly leftover parts from 2 other car models stitched together in the midline. top one was a van, bottom part was a convertible
I've been waiting for years for something uglier than the Aztek. We have a new champion.
The tent attachment really drives the point home:
https://i.redd.it/0x2qva4ge6041.jpg
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You know what I'm tired of? Every 4-door sedan on the road looking like the same boring bar of soap on wheels. It's gotten to the point where all major car brands are indistinguishable from each other besides small details like the grill and headlights. Nobody has any imagination anymore. You guys laughing at "ugly" cars are part of the problem, and the reason why car manufacturers won't take any risks anymore.
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I believe that title has since been taken by the Nissan Juke. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Juke#/media/File:2017_N...
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An upvote just wasn't enough. I'm still laughing.
Tesla doesn't have the manufacturing capacity to sell a truck to everybody, and people that love something are willing to pay more than people who only mildly like something, so it makes sense that they would design a highly polarizing truck that a few people loved but everybody else hated. It's reminiscent of the economic model of fursuit manufacturers.
I 100% disagree, and believe what you're doing is the classic English Major grasping for meaning where none was implied.
I think what we're seeing is what happens when there is no one around to say 'no' to a company. Tesla is being fed, by everyone in at least the US, that they are the future and are prophets of what is to come.
So you take the attitude of 'I can do nothing wrong' and add a dash of Musk's inherent God-Complex, and mix it into the culture there.
And this is what you get.
That's my theory.
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Are you really going with the "they made it ugly on purpose to avoid selling too many of them" defense? Come on just because this is tesla doesn't mean you need to be realistic. It's a multiplia, someone had a brain fart and we end up with a fugly. It happens.
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They made the look polarizing and a bit extreme for free PR. For the first few years after launch, every time it's seen on the road, people will talk about whether they love it or hate it. If they made it look like the F-150, most people wouldn't even notice.
For what it's worth, the designer of the Renault Twingo (another polarizing design) said something similar way back in the day. Better to design something 20% of people love and 80% of people hate than design something everyone just thinks is okay.
Wow, that is not the analogy that I would have first chosen.
That's basically what Bob Lutz said about the Dodge Ram redesign in the 90's
I think people are not as aware of this: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1197627433970589696
"Tesla Cybertruck (pressurized edition) will be official truck of Mars"
They have designed it to drive on Mars.
"[Designed to drive on mars]"
Premature Optimization if I have ever heard of it.
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I think that is a bad joke rather than a legitimate plan to pressurize the vehicle. The fact that it is coming from Elon's Twitter and not Tesla's is a big indicator in my opinion. Either way, it isn't a great sign that we can't tell for sure.
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That’s just a marketing stunt. It would be sheer stupidity to actually have the same design goals for both terrestrial and Martian vehicles.
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The moon would be good enough.
The first thing I want to send to the moon is a bulldozer, you could make one based on that platform.
Also it would be fun to road trip on the moon at the right speed to stay in the sun all month.
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I think that was a joke.
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I imagine it going on missions like this one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0TrnJ0Wucfk
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So no product update or facelift of Cybertruck until we need pickups on Mars? It should be the longest running car model in history by then!
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It will probably look better in the context of the Martian landscape, set in the foreground with the first colony in the background.
On Earth, it's ugly.
If there's one thing I want in a truck it's the ability to drive on a planet which I will never actually visit.
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The Vaporwave aesthetic goes beyond mere 80's nostalgia into a sort of fetishism. Normally, targeting fetishists is a bit niche; but Tesla has hit on a lot of success targeting market segments that everyone else thought were tiny niches.
I think the truck was built w/ spaceX in mind [1]. You can probably manufacture that thing quite easily from basic sheet metal, when you have limited machinery and labour on another planet.
[1] https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pi...
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It most resembles Centauri's car from The Last Starfighter:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1015/7033/products/Centaur...
With both looking like they come with a built in VHS player.
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> That is the goddamned ugliest vehicle
If the Porsche Cayenne is anything to go by it will do well
So true it's painful.
“911 has nice lines, I guess, but I really wanted something that looks more like a Fiat.”
I feel the same about the Honda Accord. Why are cars getting uglier?
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> That is the goddamned ugliest vehicle I've ever seen.
I agree! But at the same time I want one right now :-)
Just $100 to pre-order it :) .
The shape appears optimized for driving under semi trailers which are perpendicular to the roadway. Nice touch since it includes autopilot.
The Hummer was hideous as well, but it sold like pancakes for a time
The Hummer was also based on a US military vehicle from the gulf war, which gives it a lot of cachet with people who want a powerful (or want to project an image of power) vehicle. I don't doubt a lot of people will buy one of these things, but I don't see it coming anywhere close to the popularity of the hummer.
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I think the hummer is a really good comparison here. The ground clearance and low center of gravity of the cybertruck will most likely give it legendary off road capabilities. I can't wait to see some footage of one at moab or something.
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No, it is not ugly at all.
I'm going to borrow a term from architecture. It's brutal. It's a brutalist truck.
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come on. look at the front bumper's angles. It could be more symmetrical even with a boxy look. They intentionally made it ugly. And not in some "retro" kind or "artistic" kind of angled look - it s not reminiscent of a style. It will almost look better crashed.
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I think I like the direction of the polygonal look. That's super cool, but this design looks kind of janky.
I do not feel this will appeal to people who buy a truck for frequent towing. 300 mile range unloaded = 150 mile range under load. With a camper in tow, you'll be stopping every 100-120 miles to recharge. How exactly will you recharge with a 30 foot trailer attached?
This will appeal to businesses that need to broadcast their eco sensibilities to us.
Not sure, but I’d be willing to bet the majority of towing is short range. Bringing equipment to a job site or putting a boat in the lake.
It looks like you can drive it into a lake and then it turns into a submarine. I bet he's gonna unlock that feature a few months after people bought it, and why the windows are "unbreakable"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeBqf6bYZak
Even better. Elon says[1] that a pressurized version will be available for deployment on Mars (not joking).
[1] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1197627433970589696
Musk has actually said outright he was inspired by that film.
Made me think of a long forgotten 70's movie - Damnation Alley.
I am of the same demo. I agree it is ugly, but ugly in a good way.
Weirdly reminds be of the lambos I was in love with as a kid
Go back and look at the lines and proportions of the countach[0] and look again at the cybertruck. It reminds me of a lambo in the same way that the phantom menace reminds me of a new hope.
[0] https://rmsothebys-cache.azureedge.net/a/a/2/9/4/f/aa294f0f2...
It looks like they were mimicing a stealth bomber or something.
Looks like an urban weapon for the imminent Mad Mad world Musk needs to finally mass produce his flame throwers.
You mean Mad Muks?
I generally appreciate non curvy designs in many forms. But I agree with you on this, my immediate thought was, "God, this thing is absolutely hideous" Such a missed opportunity.
‘85 here, love the look! Definitely reminds me of the StarFox era :)
Someone on Reddit made a good point. They might be copying Sonic the movie's approach to marketing. Release a ugly version now, and then later on, release an improved version.
Trying to explain simple bad decision making with some kind of grand marketing strategy that involves incredible amounts of wasted work and huge amounts of coordination and the silence of hundreds of people is the most reddit thing ever.
People made the same conspiracy theory about New Coke.
Coke's response:
"Some cynics will say that we planned the whole thing. The truth is we're not that dumb and we're not that smart."
There are too many things wrong with that theory to be plausible. The same is true here.
Yeah I feel like they are almost certainly putting this design out to create some buzz. I can't picture them releasing this hideous thing as-is.
Using a marketing conspiracy theory with about 10,000 holes in it to explain an ugly design is not what I would consider a "good point".
agree but also i love it.
It'd better be available in purple.
https://uzicopter.tumblr.com/
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If you were putting together a mood board for the Cybertruck. These cars might have been on it...
1970 Lancia Bertone Stratos http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nZhhAcyh9Qg/VQxxoTBLCeI/AA...
1979 Insomnia, Dome Zero P2 http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-g6cc2DJRJIM/VQsxHX-ND0I/AA...
Maserati Boomerang http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-bkKWE1sC_dU/VQsxP3_Uk0I/AA...
1976 Alfa Romeo Navajo http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-11k8tJ20DtQ/VQsxIvr7Y1I/AA...
1980 Citroën Karin https://cdn0.wideopenroads.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/ft...
That was basically my initial reaction... looks like low poly game art. Not interested.
maybe they plan to texture it with high tech holographic textures though
I disagree respectfully. I had sat through and watched the Ford Mach-E reveal but this Tesla has practically made me forget that altogether.
I'm a child of the 90s and the Cybertruck makes me hard as diamonds. Not even kidding, I think it's wicked cool.
yepyepyep! I think literally every one of my friends and me had that poster of the white Countach from Scholastic
Hmmm 200k pre-orders and climbing. The haters may have some humble pie to eat.
I though the lesson Tesla learned/taught was that people wanted an electric car that doesn't look like an electric car. Truck buyers' sensibilities are even more conservative than luxury sedan buyers'--aluminum frame? I dunno about that.
Go outside more if you want to see ugly cars
The more I look at it the more I like it.
Even if you don't like it you have to applaud the vision here. The vast majority of car companies are too afraid of getting out of the conformist design taste of the majority of people.
Well there's a lot of people saying they hate it so I'll just throw in my hat to say I think it's incredible.
The truck bed opening up was something out of a sci-fi movie. Looking forward to smoking F-150's off the line with this.
I grew up with GMC and Ford trucks in the mountains and in Texas (Texans love their trucks), and am in need of a truck (for towing, of which this has amazing specs with the mid and high end models) at the moment. I've been looking and looking not wanting to get taken advantage of, and had mostly settled on a few years old Tundra... but I love this thing, and also love the ATV, and so I am seriously considering this as my next vehicle purchase.
As a very security and privacy conscious person, my main quibble has been that I don't like drive by wire products. I don't want to get Michael Hastings'ed... but the fact is even the big truck companies are starting to get rid of mechanical throttle, so I might as well give up on that is how it feels.
What better way to merge my mountain man and hacker sides than with a Tesla truck. Now if I only had the money laying around... and I do think many of you underestimate how much in truck culture having something that looks different can be the biggest part of being "cool". I got more compliments on my Suzuki Samurai with a lift and 36ers than you would ever imagine. I blacked out a 91 YJ and also got nothing but compliments. This thing is going to do well, mark my words.
I prob won't go get a cord of wood in it, (I might) but that's what the old 84 beat up GMC camper special is for.
I understand what Tesla is doing here. Outer shell manufacturing cost is very low. No paint, minimal bending process. Just laser cut the material and it is ready to be mounted. If you want to manufacture something in a low resource environment ( like Mars ) it might be the clever move.
Are you implying that this truck will be manufactured on Mars at some point?
Yes. I suspect that production line will be designed to be built on Mars. Design of the car also looks like it is built for high dust environments (non-flat rooftop). Solar charging, shell with same material with Starship also supports this thesis.
I bet one of the key factors for this thing to be on the road safely was the development of some kind of unbreakable glass for the huge front window, so they "had to" make this new type of resistant glass. Some "yes man" at the upper management level must've decided to skip constrained material testing (Glass dissipates energy much differently when it is in a frame rather than just loose... pay close attention at the ball drop demo and you'll see the glass jump a few inches)
Yep. Also they were constantly tightening the screws holding down the glass in the demo which I though stood out.
Better utility than a truck? Excuse me? 6.5' bed and you can't even reach over the sides to get stuff. No stake pockets or any apparent affordance for installation of racks in the bed either. However, I am a fan of a factory tonneau cover and what looks like a built-in ramp in the tailgate.
But there's no avoiding that the thing is just ugly as can be.
Frankly I'm just waiting for an all-electric replacement for the bigger Tacoma / smaller F150 niche. I don't want or need an 80s stainless steel wedge that can tow a 747. Rivian doesn't appear to be interested in that segment. Toyota isn't going to do it until 2025 at best. I was hoping Tesla might, but I'm not surprised that their first foray barely qualifies as a truck.
It's more powerful than a truck, better for the environment, has the capability of running tools without a generator, and is actually appealing to non-truck people -- you're right, it barely qualifies as a truck. And that's a good thing -- we need FAR less trucks in the world.
Not withstanding the grandeur of the truck, its unique look, and specs; I love Elon's composure following the somewhat failed glass test that broke both windows on the vehicle during the live unveiling.
After announcing the prices, I was really hoping he'd say "..and that's without broken windows."
Well, the steel ball didn't go through which is pretty amazing still.
That's a truck only if you consider a Subaru Baja a truck. If you want a real crack at the F-150's market share, it has to be usable for work. If you can't put a stack of plywood or drywall in the back and still have room for tools and a ladder, it's useless as a work truck. Will this thing even accept a ladder rack? Has a single person on the design team ever spent a single day working a blue collar job that requires a truck?
My first thought was where the hell I'd put my ladder, and then how I'd fit a sofa on there. What even is this thing
I don't know about the car market in the US enough but Tesla seems to be in the premium segment - are the trucks people buy for this kind of work in the price range of this thing ?
100% absolutely. See [1]. People spend an absolutely stupid amount on trucks - basically no one gets the base model and the average sale price for an F150 is north of $45k. It's one of the reasons Ford is focusing on the truck segment - the margins are way higher than for mass market sedans.
[1] https://www.kbb.com/car-news/pricing-your-next-ford-f-150-it...
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Have you seen the work trucks some guys have? $40,000 doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
Elon walked off stage to kill the guy who designed the glass.
ye, Elon was sweating like crazy right after the blunder. I also thought the presentation could have been rehearsed a little bit better as the slides seem to be off most of the time (I assume Elon is just way too busy to rehearse these things).
This is how every Tesla presentation goes. It's never been about Steve Jobs level presentation polish, it's always been about the quality of the product.
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He’s the CEO. It’s his job to represent the company. It’s his job to rehearse the slides.
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I'm pretty sure Elon doesn't rehearse these presentations at all. He's had trivially-correctable wrong info on slides before, and had to explain it away during the presentation.
Hahaha... probably. I think it actually made the thing look a lot more bad-ass while he gave the rest of the presentation. I own a Tacoma (and have owned a few) and I've had my truck broken into quite often. Some places you don't even want to park because they're hot spots for getting your windows broken into (I'm looking at you Lombard Street). This will be a bit of a deterrent to thieves which is nice.
Does he kill the guy who designed the glass or the guy who suggested trying it again on the rear window?
You mean Tesla's chief designer Franz von Holzhausen? I'm not so sure. ;)
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And the web team
> 429 Too Many Requests
Order page eventually went up, and my down payment went thru.
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Context?
Here's the timestamp of the presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwvDOdBHYBw&t=7m22s
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During the demo of transparent metal glass Elon invited Franz to hit the glass with metal ball and it broke. It wasn’t supposed to because it is extra hardened or something.
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they broke the armour glass on stage, maybe accident? maybe not?
Half-joking aside...
I trust the glass will be fully bulletproof by end of year, if not some time next week.
You think they will edit the glass demo out of the version they post?
Failed demo is a 100% totally intended publicity trick.
I’m surprised to see the positive comments about the design.. I saw this and the first thing I thought was: that’s the ugliest vehicle I’ve ever seen. No exaggeration.
If it makes you feel a bit more sane, HN is the only website Ive seen so far where most people aren't ridiculing this.
I for sure can't believe anyone would ever build this or that anyone would ever like it.
What about that "Cybergirl" that introduced Elon?
She called him her "creator". Just an actress (Grimes) on video with weird almost-flailing gestures or was it an animated AI from a secret Elon project made in the likeness of Grimes?
https://youtu.be/0y3wE0pgXcM?t=131
For real. When she's done talking her expression just goes full neutral like she's waiting for input.
edit: this is not criticism, I loved it, I am genuinely curious if that introduction was artificial. Felt uncanny valley.
Though the delivery could have been better, to me it feels like a "Welcome to Thunderdome" at https://youtu.be/0y3wE0pgXcM?t=201 where Elon is just living out his Mad Max dream. Love it.
She's an artist and Elon's girlfriend, it was probably her idea to appear like an AI hologram.
Wait are they really still dating and is that really Grimes?
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All of the cyberpunk extras in the background during the presentation were super cringe too. The whole thing was just cringe on top of cringe.
I'm worried about being on the road with these. If they are as indestructable as suggested/demonstrated, it seems like everyone else on the road becomes the crumple zone for both vehicles. Perhaps the anti-dent is different from crumple zone considerations, but definitely a bit intimidating to share the road with.
And does it only come in one color (stainless)?
I'm guessing the crumple zone on this is going to be better than a vehicle with an internal combustion engine! That and the fact that semis are everywhere. This being on the road doesn't worry me in the slightest given the other vehicles already out there.
There might be a practical reason it's not painted: https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/1/18291091/tesla-epa-fine-ha...
So you think a $31,000 fine matters more than a $200,000,000 paint shop? That isn't even counting the cost of painting the cars (paint, labor…).
Source: https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pi...
Who would have thought that the comically ugly renders of a few weeks ago would turn out to be spot on? This was jaw dropping.
Would like to see a render that looks like this did.
What kind of design would you have gone for?
So, from the comments here and elsewhere, it's a Marmite thing. A majority seem to hate the design but a significant minority absolutely loves it.
That doesn't look bad for sales. I'd rather have a group of enthusiasts that love the product, and a group of haters, than have everyone going "meh". Firstly because many of the enthusiasts will probably buy the product, and secondly because controversy is free advertising.
Personally I do like the aesthetics, although I'm not in the demographic that buys trucks.
The price point is incredibly low for the capacity and performance. Go price a high-end Ram/F-series/Chevy and be amazed that you can easily spend 65K on something you'd feel comfortable taking a date to dinner in. I was shocked by the first look, but the practicality is there. I'd buy one, if I wasn't in the "post-payoff" period of my SUV. If the incentives are there and fuel costs rise, I think I could convince my spouse.
The tall, angled side fins above the bed are a dealbreaker for me. Makes it too hard to reach in, also more awkward to climb into from the side by standing on a tire. It sucks that you wouldn't be able to rest anything horizontally on them without having it slide off. I'm curious as to how well it'll hold a rack: https://www.autoaccessoriesgarage.com/Truck-Racks-Van-Racks/.... I wonder if this will be another form > function, like with the Tesla Model X whose gull wing doors make it impossible to hold a roof rack.
This is nearly April fools joke level. Ignoring the individual aesthetic, it just stands in such stark contrast to the rest of the curved, sleek vehicles in their fleet.
Surprising.
I literally checked my watch to see the date.
Yes, the year must have been of some cyberpunk future, because the look is right from there.
I can't but notice how the "futuristic" car designs from my childhood are now pretty common in mass-produced cars. I suggest the recent sci-fi movie esthetics are going to be common soon enough, and this truck is an example.
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I'd buy it. In Rocket League.
Well, trucks aren't usually meant to look curved nor sleek. Those who drive trucks probably wouldn't want one that looked that way.
Those that drive trucks want it to show masculinity/power. This is just a triangle on wheels/kids toy.
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An April Fools joke.. in November.
This is possibly the ugliest car I have ever seen - its less lovable than the Aztek.. somehow.
While I generally think Tesla cars are pretty ugly and boring I can't understand the criticism for this one that much.
Finally something that looks a bit different than all the VW and Audis you see on the street, reminds me of the Countach or brutalist buildings.
Do you honestly think both the S and 3 are ugly?
Yes, but taste is subjective so I know I'm probably not in the majority with that opinion here.
Watching this was... cerebral. The impression I get is that Tesla made this truck because they wanted to, and they don't really care too much what people think of it.
They made it to erase any doubt about an electric truck being tough.
Or practical. That bed is insanely bad.
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I was kind of hoping the Tesla pickup was going to be a reality. I was thinking of a cross between A model 3 and an F150 and was legitimately excited.
If this is the "Tesla Pickup" count me as bitterly disappointed.
This [0] is the Tesla pickup.
[0] https://youtu.be/R35gWBtLCYg
I've got a truck (an older Tacoma) and too many hobbies that make it hard to give up, so I'll likely always have a truck.
If Tesla had introduced a factory version of Simone's, I'd be screaming at them to shut up and take my money.
This thing...I'm sorry, I can't get over the styling. I love the numbers, and don't even find the pricing to be too horrible, but there's no away I'll have something that looks like that. Maybe Tesla truck 2.0 will be worth looking at.
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Because of the design or functionality?
The branding and aesthetic of this truck is so untesla it is alarming. Trucks are very expensive nowadays so this could be good market for them. Especially if people buy them for the novelty. As far as actual work is concerned I feel that this will be roughed up very badly in no time, and being a unibody of sorts will present some problems and expense to repair. It’s pretty much the opposite of what you would want from a pure work standpoint. Something that is built more like an overgrown UTV would be better for Real work.
Interesting, the no rear-view mirror design is already approved by regulations and being deployed. Roadster shouldn't be far now +.+
No side-view mirrors, you mean? Or is this lacking a rear-view mirror?
The rear-view mirror is a display that shows the back camera feed. In the prototype at least.
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Thoughts on towing. (I like to RV.)
* Its capacity of 7,500+ lbs isn't too shabby. Not F150/1500 class. But Jeep Gladiator territory, which is another much-awaited domestic truck getting some attention.
* I'm assuming the 250+ mile range drops significantly when towing.
* When camped at sites serviced by electricity, it's often 30/50 amp service and unmetered. Good for recharging!
I'm unlikely to jump on board yet, but this is a beautiful experiment and there will be many trucking niche users watching!
If you're willing to drop 70k there is apparently a version with 14,000 lbs towing and 500+ mile range.
Please don't be that EV owner that mooches off of "free" sockets. Or at least ask first. RV parks aren't expecting people to use $5-10 of electricity overnight, and they'll get upset at EV owners.
Just get the 200kwH model (my est for the 500 mi range), plug the RV into the truck, and go boondocking for a week with A/C, fridge, induction cooker, and no propane. Extra bonus if the truck supports charging from the 2kW array on the roof of the RV.
It is tax detectable to donate directly to a public government, if you feel uncomfortable about it.
The 8x4 sheet is the question for me about this. If I can get 8x4 inside this flat, then I will absolutely buy one no questions.
Maybe this is controversial, but I really like the aesthetic. It definitely has a futuristic, industrial cyberpunk vibe. I wouldn't call it "pretty", but it's distinctive.
Ok. Not sure what to make of this line:
> With the ability to pull near infinite mass
That's the opening line from one of the slides on the slide show...
That seems a like a bit of an overstatement... Just a tad.
This looks so fucking good, like a fuck you to traditional car manufacturers, I think it's bold and very very unusual.
I would rather see these type of cars in the future than what Chevy Bolt, Prius look like. Really looking forward to seeing this on the streets.
This is the first mainstream security truck at an affordable price. The sales on this are going to be higher than anybody expects. Every rapper, drug dealer, and dirtbag politician that doesn't want to go out like Tupac will buy one. The weekend warriors who had to give up their Hummers will buy one. The Mexican/Colombian cartels will all drive them because it's already bullet resistant but with that power, it can easily be modded with an extra 1/4 inch plate. The regular folks who live in places where carjacking is common (Brazil, Venezuela, South Africa, etc.) will buy them. It's going to sell very, very well.
Elon, is that you?
So additionally to "Bioweapon Defense Mode" this will also be invisible to radars?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_technology
As an automotive engineer my mind is unable to process this as real.
Are they being serious?
Very very risky move on styling
I’m unsure what to think. Kudos for breaking the mold, I guess.
I wonder what it will look like when it is actually produced, doubt it passes US standards in it's current form. Needs some mirrors at the very least, although maybe at the time of release cameras will be a legal replacement.
All those sharp edges must make running over pedestrians even more fun than with a plain SUV or truck. Looks easy to clean, too.
Not sure why I would buy a Model Y. I love this thing. It feels safer, carries 6 people and is a full utility. And all of that with gorgeously edgy styling. Can we please move this up before the Model Y Tesla?
That thing looks like it would do a lot of damage if it hit a pedestrian. Aren't there regulations that are supposed to enforce designs that increase the survival chances of people hit by cars?
Quote from the website "You will be able to complete your configuration as production nears in late 2021. Tri Motor AWD production is expected to begin in late 2022."
Ya right, production starts in 2 years. I would guess 4 yrs and I know nothing about car production. But I do know that just getting the subcontractors in order will take more than a year even if you have an assembly line in place already. Why is Tesla so optimistic about timelines? It just hurts it's reputation when they are years late.
They are literally ahead of schedule with their next vehicle; the Model Y.
I'm not the one who would buy this as I live in Boston and drive a tiny car. But I thought it was really cool. Reminds me of futuristic cars from 80's action movies.
Finally. A 1980's videogame car. The future really is now.
Is it a good idea to make it so shiny? Coupled with the slab sides, you get quite strong reflections. Could be annoying at best to other drivers and potentially dangerous.
Eccentric billionaires, got to love em.
I was looking for an electric truck to buy and was hoping this Cybertruck would be a replacement, but I think I’ll stick with my gas sipping sedan for awhile longer after seeing this announcement.
I’ll wait for the next iterations or a better alternative offered by the competition. I just can’t see myself driving this “box.” Reminds me of those early 90s SUVs, but like 10x uglier.
Specs are impressive but I just can’t get over the aesthetics.
What did I just watch?
You watched them appear to accidentally break both side windows then do the rest of the event with shattered windows.
I guarantee the flux capacitor will be extra.
I love the new look and am curious about if the exoskeleton has crumple points to reduce the kinetic energy imparted to the passengers during a collision.
Yeah by the way which is the biggest news, the truck or the ATV? Or both? Personnally I would by wildy interested by the Tesla ATV and less by the truck
Personally I like cars with rough edges like this. But there's a reason no one except for Lamborghini is building low-polygon cars: It's pretty inefficient aerodynamically.
But this looks like just an early concept. Those always look much more spectacular than the final, real-world version where physics and laws need to be respected. We can probably expect it to end up looking a bit more round and less exciting.
I definitely want to drive this truck. But never want to be seen driving this truck
I would. Ignoring sports/concept cars, this is arguably the most futuristic looking car in a long time.
I think this product, tesla cybertruck, is a good display of "function is form". Usually people preface "function over form" or "form over function". But in this case, the functionality of this truck solves the reason to have a truck REALLY WELL. The form of the truck comes from being a very practical, efficient use of a truck.
Form has been getting seeping into "aesthetics", which is good and all, but is that really where it should go? Sure, it's nice to look at something pretty, but why not have some cases where form fits the functionality perfectly.
I think this is a good implementation of mending the two practices into one harmonious product where function and form balances each other out.
Function: strong outer body, powerful, and everything serves a purpose.
Form: tesla's well-known low-drag design, probs makes manufacturing simpler (not easier per say, but simpler), etc.
I can't think of all the reasonings of functions and forms, but I just think this cybertruck would be super useful to have in particular blue-collar jobs.
"Order Now" ->
Too Many Requests
Guru Meditation:
XID: 2262329
Props for an error page that tickled my nostalgia in a most geeky way.
That's from Varnish, a proxy server.
Anyone else think this looks awful? Especially compared to BMWs i series, which is unashamedly futuristic but also, well, nice
Live streaming of people trying it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTDztHFa0_Q , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoutN_Ezs8w
I feel like we're going through a similar phase as the 50's where all American cars had huge flarings that had no purpose, but they had aesthetic value. This thing is too much style for the sake of style. In some ways, it is cool - use aesthetics to market to masses, change the world - one gas guzzler at a time.
I'm reminded of top gear's Geoff [1]. It's that concept car angularity that makes you believe that it could be manufactured in a shed, if only it had a frame.
[1] https://pics.imcdb.org/0ge20/206146-Geoff.jpg
I think the main point here is that electric cars (being simpler and having few parts) also cater to extremely versatile designs. I wonder how far they could gog away from the classic truck design within allowed regulations (like, a shorter front, different positioning etc). Clearly aesthetics are not a concert here.
The design might be intentional. Knowing that they would not be able to fulfill all orders of a beautiful Cybertruck, this might be a smart move. Reduces number of potential orders, proves a EV pick-up truck point, and sets an extreme price baseline, which for other manufacturers could be very hard to reach.
I suspect that over the next 6 months to a year, everyone will want this truck. They think it is awful right now. They are shocked. This will change. People are going to start asking the automotive industry for the future. I was disgusted yesterday. I'm interested in this vehicle today.
I can't be the only one who sees the design similarities to the Delorean, right? And to top it off it's stainless steel...
For me it is reminiscent of TARS from Interstellar.
Any chance this is the chassis of SpaceX's inevitable Mars Rover being tested on Earth first?
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It also looks like the cars in the original Total Recal
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2010/02/03/the-futuristic-cars...
Yeah, it's like they took a Delorean, added an El Camino style bed and made the whole thing more rugged... and electric.
Gas stations? Where we're going, we don't need gas stations!
I thought this was the car from Moonwalker. Was expecting it to turn into robot Michael Jackson. There's no way this wasn't modeled after that?
The unpainted steel of the DeLorean made it a pain in the ass to repair. You can't pull dents, apply body filler and repaint, you basically need a whole new panel if you want to restore damage.
The part of the demo that was actually impressive was the part where they took sledgehammers to the body panels and didn't leave dents. I think it'll be fine.
Unlike a DeLorean, I don't think a few rough weld marks would ruin the aesthetic of the Cybertruck.
Was thinking the same thing. Sounds expensive to repair. Leading to higher insurance premiums
reminds me of the Aston Martin Bulldog concept from '79 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin_Bulldog
A Delorean Hummer love child.
My first thought as well.
Same here, though the DMC car looked futuristic for its time. This is simply hideous, a meme of itself.
Any idea what the curb weight is?
It looks like it was designed by a guy who makes rockets — and it was. I admire the chutzpah to make something that looks so different than what is selling, but it seems like the kind of "futuristic" that would be made from cardboard in a sixth-grade "back to the Future" theater performance. It's easy to see what's cool about it, but it's somehow very immature.
Though I admit the longer I've looked at it, the more neutral I feel about it, but maybe that's just a personality defect.
Elon said in advance he doesn't care if people don't like how it looks, so clearly he anticipated some negative feedback about the look. I can see it in a lot of scenarios, but just not in my driveway.
Entirely flat metal panels tend to be rather disappointing mechanically... Tap on them and they'll sound like a drum... I forsee major issues with noise from the body panels fluttering in the wind at high speeds, or just being noisy as rain hits it.
I am so excited by the Cybertruck. I drive a Toyota minivan now and my lease is up in the fall of 2021 so the timing is perfect. To me this is the perfect minivan alternative and my husband is thrilled with the hauling capacity, plus the specs. Fun to drive, big range and looks cool (but I could not care less what it looks like since I drive a minivan now!)and the price is the real hook. No gas needed six seater electric truck that drives like a Porsche? Sold. So you can get the truck market but also the minivan market. That’s huge. And my family skis and snowboards so it’s perfect for going to the mountains. Total all purpose vehicle for an active family. What is not to love?
I absolutely love this truck's design. I really wonder (and worth noting because no one else has yet) how much the aerodynamics played into the aesthetics. The coefficient of drag on this thing is probably great because of the truck's profile. The trailing edge comes to a point to reduce vortices / separation of flow (and thus drag), which would have a significant impact on range. I find it funny because the profile is very similar to that of an older Prius, which actually had excellent aerodynamics compared to any other car at the time. Obviously this thing would eat a Prius for a snack, and I wouldn't be surprised if cybertruck has a better Cd.
I've been waiting for this announcement so I could decide on the next truck I buy. In terms of specs, it's pretty good. In terms looks, it's terrible. I was hoping Tesla would put out a vehicle to be top of the list, they failed.
From the side, the pickup initially looks downright weird. But I think in three dimensions, it looks astonishing and brilliant. But the thing that really gets me is the 3+3 seating. We've got two sets of twins, and I drive one of the very few cars on the road with 3+3 seating, a Fiat Multipla. It just works for big families. To some it's the ugliest car on the road, but to me that car goes all the way around to beautiful, and no one denies its practicality. Whenever I see another one we almost always wave to each other. Hey, beauty is all in the beholder, and the Tesla looks great. I'd love an estate/Station wagon even more.
Regardless of its power, that is the ugliest car design I’ve ever seen. Seeing it in the stage in video after the renders on the website made it even worse. Nerds may think it’s cool, but I doubt you’ll catch many people riding around in it.
From a distance you can sort of see what the were going for, but looking at it up close it's dumb ugly. I imagine they thought they were being clever and minimal with the straight lines and utter lack of subtlety, but the result is just clunky and inept. It's like a child's crude drawing, and the fact that adults actually made this is absurd. It reminds me of TARS from Interstellar, which is another design people inexplicably praised.
I probably hate this even more for the fact that I adore the angular Fiero/Lambo/DeLorean/Blade Runner aesthetic. This is such a poorly botched, cluelessly literal interpretation of that.
Looks like they want to win some military contract ...
I really like the dent free exterior and the color.
I'm not a car or truck person.. so forgive the ignorance.. but is it rear wheel only? The `Drivetrain: REAR-WHEEL DRIVE` section has me perplexed for a number of reasons.
1. I thought Teslas where all wheel? Ie, the nature of how they work is such that each wheel was a motor. Is that not the case for this one?
2. Isn't all-wheel a valuable offering? This doesn't seem to be an off-road focused vehicle.. but nevertheless I personally value all wheel. Am I wrong in this?
I find this weird. I can't afford it anyway, BUT, I have often joked that I need a small Tesla truck to replace my Prius. However, strangely nothing about this interests me. Even if I had the money.
There are other motor options which have AWD. There's also an option which tows 14,000 lbs, which is a very large load, double the load an F-150 tows.
Looks like they have a AWD and AWD (triple engine) package.
The base model is RWD, the higher specs are AWD
It’s gonna cut any pedestrians it hits into half
Sure, but the pedestrian will cut the window in half
But this looks like a prototype. No windshields, no side mirrors. Is this even legal?
That roof will not work very well in areas with snow. You're going to spend an hour cleaning off the snow and ice. In my region a hefty fine is in store for anyone who does not clear snow and ice from their vehicle roof.
Why do you say that? With the slope and adjustable suspension I'd think it'd be easier-- you just lower the truck and brush the snow down in a few swoops.
Snow sticks it's not always like magic light fluffy movie snow. And ice can seem like it's been welded on. Plus it looks like a very long reach to get to it.
I drive a Dodge 2500 4x4 and my roof is 1/3 the size of that beast. And it's 6'6" high which makes it awkward to be able to remove ice. If ice flies off and hits another vehicle while I am driving I am in big trouble, and rightly so.
Form over factor = endearingly ugly. I can see the narrative for a simple aerodynamic wedge eventually changing public sentiment. Basically the modernist argument against decoration. If this actually ends up being a solid workhorse, the same energy efficiency and fragile masculinity arguments that shamed humvee owners might also work against frou-frou status symbol pickup trucks. That said the bedrail is high AF so I don't even know if this design is practical. I assume there's some sort hood and winch int he front, and mounts for lights / accessories that would ruin the profile.
You can pre-order with a down payment of only $100 today for delivery in late 2021.
Does that guarantee a purchase spot?
I wonder how a design like this stacks up when taking pedestrian safety into consideration. Of course, with self driving safety features you could argue it should never hit a pedestrian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedestrian_safety_through_vehi...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedestrian_safety_through_vehi...
The video link stopped working halfway through for me, but that design isn't final, right? Looks like an early prototype for integration testing- that angular look can't be what it'll actually ship like?
That's the final look, what i'd like to see is more about that new ATV!
20 years late but finally it started to feel like we are living in 21st century.
Most people who have trucks rarely use them for things a car or suv couldn't do. I think the range limitations when towing and other limitations probably won't hurt sales because people who have to do serious long distance towing wouldnt consider a tesla anyway. The cybertruck will be used as a big car by most people most of the time. As long as it is able to maintain the aspirational marketing properties of other trucks it should do well in the US. Plus it has the chicken tax on its side.
... and I'm just sitting here wondering if the rims really are not round (as it's interlock the tire design seems to indeed indicate), and why on earth one would do that?
Inspired by https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokedex/porygon
I wonder if the motor is 1.21 gigawatts.
John Delorean is back!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-77xulkB_U
I'm not up to speed with US regulations, but the design seems very dangerous for pedestrian collisions. A sharp and hard shell must be very harmful, even at low speeds.
"What does this monstrosity cost?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPc-VEqBPHI
Who wants Simone's Truckla instead ? https://twitter.com/SimoneGiertz
Let's hope these trucks are more reliable than the Teslas that are in use as electric taxis at Amsterdam Airport: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl&sl=auto&tl=en&u...
Ugliness aside, I wonder if the onboard electrical outlets will allow it to be used as emergency power for a fridge / sump pump in case of a power outage.
This seems to be the electric version of the hummer. Not a practical replacement to actual pickup trucks, but a lot of coolness factor for people who want it.
For some reason, immediately reminded of Knight Rider[0]. I hope the lights strobe[1].
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Rider_(1982_TV_series) [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj80Kwenh6I
I'm not crazy, right? This thing is totally hideous.
I'm impressed, honestly, I want one. I imagine this is going to become a cool collectors item some day. I never want to be seen driving it though.
Ya'll joke, but I don't suspect they are going to make/sell a lot of these and if Tesla goes under in the near future these things will skyrocket in value.
If you really want to bet against Tesla, buy one of these and wait for Tesla to fold. No one will ever make anything like this again.
I could even imagine them only making a few hundred of these and them all being worth a million dollars after the company collapses.
Wow. This thread is going to be one of the most commented of the year.
Tesla has been really bold with the design, I love it, and I hope Tesla will be rewarded for it.
I don't think this is a legit new model by Tesla. Do you really think they wouldn't have properly tested their "shatter-proof" windows before a global unveil? And fail twice?
This is a really well orchestrated publicity stunt designed to boost the stock price. They calculated that even the failed shatter proof windows wouldn't matter much in public opinion because the car itself is so ugly.
I wonder if this video will be erased from the internet
There was a video? Didn't see anything on my phone just now.
Assuming these ever make it to production, the will absolutely be the vehicle featured in the eventual inevitable Back to the Future reboot.
Is it just me who is a bit wary of the sports car claims?
Acceleration is going to be impressive and CoG will be lower than for similar vehicles but likely much higher than say for a BMW M2 or similar sporty car, so cornering isn't likely to be anywhere near as good which coupled with the extra weight, it seems that this will be good for a pick up truck but no competition for a car in a circuit.
Given how homogenous the last 20 years of automotive design has been I'm really impressed by Tesla's willingness to do something so radically different.
Jobs understood the power of great design: Conceiving a product that people don't know they want until you show them. Not normally a big fan of Musk or Tesla, but this feels like one of those products. It feels like the future.
It will be interesting to see just how useful the bed is. Angled sides are usually a non-starter for a work truck. Also, if this is supposed to be a bug-out vehicle, how do you charge it when it’s bugged-out?
Anyway, the design is certainly getting people talking. We’ll have to wait and see if Ford and Chevy have any response to this in terms of how their design language changes.
Nobody noticed, that besides Armour Glass they also sold a Dead blow hammer as a Sledgehammer.
These are categorically opposite things in terms of impact force. How gullible must they think, their audience is?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_blow_hammer
Even worse the first trials against the conventional door were partly sideways, where the dead blow hammer just functions like a regular hammer or worse depending on area size of impact with P=F/A.
The renders on their site are exceptionally bad. They don't even look quite like renders, rather hand-made sketches with textures applied on top. The design of the truck is not that bad and I bet the car would look fantastic in real life and on real photos, with all the minor detail, reflections and the feel of the real material, that is now missing.
Most are not renders, just heavy photoshop.
So weird that people take the design here personally. This thing looks FUN. It seems just as ridiculous looking as an F-350 to me, and more practical than a Hummer.
This is what I imagine a luxury vehicle looking like post zombie apocalypse. Most of the world falls apart, but the 1% create disconnected suburban paradises and this is what you drive to get between them.
Everyone in this comment thread is referring to a video of a live event, but I can't find any such thing on the linked site.
It was at livestream.tesla.com. Looks like the stream is no longer up.
Something I haven't seen mentioned much is that this is going to be one of the only cars on the market that you can fix the exterior on with plate-steel and a welder. In terms of apocalyptic vehicles, this is amazing. Also, in terms of me fucking hating curvy bullshit that nobody can work on without special tools... I really like it.
This design is just strange. When the Model S was introduced, Tesla specifically stated that it was designed to look like high-end luxury/sports cars instead of following the funky/future design that hybrids always had until.
Interesting that they reversed it with this truck, and I wonder how it'll affect the market of potential truck buyers.
It looks like Elon ordered a little too much stainless steel for his Starship fleet and wants to put it to a more earthly use.
I kind of love it. Seems to hit the mark on price, range, capability, size.
Would personally only want a van version, or possibly just the ability to take out the second seats and barrier. Would be great then for urban travel and camping.
Also would love to learn more about the engineering trade-offs in their exoskeleton structure over traditional frame on body designs.
Very militaristic design. In fact it looks like the russian Zil Punisher: https://www.topspeed.com/cars/zil-punisher/ke5011.html Maybe Musk is planning to sell his vechicles to the military, also?
Ever since that cement bridge collapsed at Florida International University a few months ago on top of cars, I've been wondering if any type of car could withstand the force of such a scenario.
Anyone know if this truck could withstand the scenario? Hopefully someone smart with the Physics or Engineering can help me out with an answer.
I can't believe how cheap this is. They could charge 10k more for each, at least for 1-2 years. What am I missing?
Anyone knows how the laser lighting works on stage. The effect looks like the light beam has a start/end and can move, similar to a lightsaber. e.g. around -44minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZbVixSkgu0
The cab/bed ratio is off IMO, should have a bigger bed to look more truck-like regardless of the future styling.
Does anyone else see a problem in giving virtually indestructible (or at least much more so than any other car) in the hands of typical "truck driver" or is it just me ? I can just picture a dumbass in this truck on the highway not giving two shits about other cars around him. I dont like this picture.
It certainly doesn't fit in with current car aesthetics that try to mimic something like a bulging piece of muscle with a face. It's like straight out of the future we were hoping for in the 80's, where machines were cold, hard steel and not mushy plastic. Has Arnold Schwarzenegger preordered one?
It looks like it was designed in Minecraft.
looks like a low poly design.
I really like the design. It seems like the sci-fi car designs from my childhood are finally here.
I just found this! https://www.motor1.com/photo/486061/1980-citroen-karin-48606...
Reminds me of an old game I used to play where you drove around a blocky vehicle with a similar shape. Now I can't stop trying to think of the name of it.
EDIT: Was the link changed right after posting? Everyone's talking about a failed glass demo with Elon and all I'm seeing is photos of an odd looking truck.
It reminds me of the walrus (https://www.google.com/search?q=carrier+command+original+wal...) in the original carrier command (https://www.myabandonware.com/game/carrier-command-m6)
Kinda reminds me of the ships in the Descent series.
Oh yeah, the Pyro (GL?) looked absolutely awesome.
This looks extremely dangerous. It looks like it could mow down a whole sidewalk full of people if the driver made a wrong turn.
So I guess this one won't be marketed for its safety and its ability reduce traffic deaths, like the Teslas with Autopilot. Or will this also have Autopilot? That sounds even worse somehow.
Which feature allows it to mow people down better?
From Tesla's website:
EXOSKELETON
Cybertruck is built with an exterior shell made for ultimate durability and passenger protection. Starting with a nearly impenetrable exoskeleton, every component is designed for superior strength and endurance, from Ultra-Hard 30X Cold-Rolled stainless-steel structural skin to Tesla armor glass.
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck?redirect=no
The steel exterior coupled with the flat square front seems to me like a perfect combination to kill in a collision with a person.
By the way, visiting the website I can confirm that the word "safety" is nowhere to be found.
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I appreciate the vaporwave aesthetic. I like that it was given space to be designed by someone passionate and not a design by committee - appeal to the masses blob. Unfortunately what they came up with is crap. I'm worried this will kill off any further vaporwave designs because it is so bad.
Angular vehicle
Stainless steel body
Smaller auto manufacturer with potentially dubious finances
Charasmatic founder with a host of drug use
I feel like I've heard this story...before...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeLorean_Motor_Company
Could you live in one of these cybertrucks? Put in a sofabed in the back, small kitchen, work table, router...
Alright.
So I just wanna step aside and stop drooling over how handsome/ ugly it is and ask a real question.
Has a prototype been created, and shown at any expo?
Or Elon is just gonna squeeze money out of starry eyed buyers now and only then start design + production?
In the past he has been late by months in delivery after making customers shell out money.
I can't see why I'd buy an ugly truck like this instead of an F150. Talk about ugly and expensive
One part Nova Sterling [1], 9 parts hideous. They should have used a CAD system that supported more than straight lines.
1. https://www.google.com/search?q=nova+sterling&tbm=isch
If you like such unconventional design, take a look here: https://www.peugeot.co.uk/concept-cars/e-legend/ unfortunately this one is only a concept car.
The 90s have called... They want their Cyberpunk 2020 font back into something more legible.
I suggest he hires Hasselhoff for the promotion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTidn2dBYbY
The included air compressor and security lock on the bed does mean it could be quite popular with contractors especially given the competitive price.
It does have way too much of the "in case I need to flee the mob to my private jet to flee to New Zealand" flavor to it though.
Most of the features of this truck are things that we should have already gotten in our pickup trucks 10 years ago when they started breaching $50k.
Hopefully this will light a fire under Ford/Chevy to actually giving us some tangible value.
In fashion nothing is new and everything is born again. I love this..
Elon prefaced it best by stating the inspiration was early 007. How amazing a large-scale mfg can do such a thing. How dare Ford, Cadillac, etc waver from their aesthetic. It's possible for Elon and he does it.
So the inspiration is the Lotus Esprit S1 from the Moore era, is my guess: https://jamesbond.fandom.com/wiki/Lotus_Esprit_S1_(1976)
Just emphasizing the fact that the top end has a 0-60 in sub seconds is INSANE. My model 3 is just a base model and is crazy quick, this is 40% faster than that! Imagine being in a 2019 Porsche and get smoked off the line by this giant industrial crazy hunk of metal.
Is no one else wondering why there are no rear view mirrors on the thing? Looks really cool though!
Probably cameras instead.
Extend the roofline back, add a third row of seating and charge +$10k... I’d buy it in a heartbeat.
This announcement eclipsed the previously-announced Bollinger Motors products (https://bollingermotors.com/). These were intriguing but the price ($125k) is a bit eye popping.
So... it looks like they stuck a solid steel shell on a passenger vehicle.
Many of the safety gains that cars have shown in the past few decades come from strategic crumple zones and the like.
So how does this stand up in terms of actual safety? This seems like it reverses many of our advancements.
So basically Tesla is starting products for military and police (armored offroad vehicles). Cool.
It’s kind of cool and I like that it looks very different. But do we really need more super heavy, huge and expensive vehicles on the road? It would be much better if they put their efforts into something small, efficient and affordable and made that cool.
Like a model 3?
Much smaller. We need smaller cars.
This looks a lot like the M577 Armored Personnel Carrier from Aliens.
https://alienanthology.fandom.com/wiki/M577_Armored_Personne...
Does a general public really needs bulletproof cars with unbreakable windows? What if there's a traffic accident and passengers are caught inside, how do you get them out? (assuming you don't have a handy metal ball laying around somewhere :P)
For me, if it can't hold a 4x8 sheet of plywood flat in the bed, it's not a truck.
It's a pick-up truck, so... why isn't there a single clear shot of the cargo bed?
Put a new ski-doo in the back and that’s a sick rig! After living through so many rusted out car bodies I was in to the aluminum f150s but stainless steel is even better. No paint to worry about scratching up on narrow deactivates logging roads.
It would be super cool if the cover of the back truck is a solar panel: https://www.tesla.com/xNVh4yUEc3B9/06_Desktop.jpg
I find this looks goofy, but other than the lack of physical buttons inside, this is a dream vehicle for me. Most weekends I want to drive 4 people + 4 mountain bikes a 120 mile round trip including fast highway and rough mountain roads.
I quite like the Paul Verhoeven '80s angular action movie aesthetic in general, but this just looks bad. The proportions are all off. I thought it was a joke and they were going to bring out the actual truck at some point.
The Citroen Karin[1] concept car has come to life.
1. http://www.citroenet.org.uk/prototypes/karin/karin.html
Probably smart to wait for the second generation model with way better vertex count.
Oh and now the order page can't handle the traffic… Error 429 Too Many Requests
so assuming Elon launchs one of these into space heading for mars in the near future, will this thing drive on mars? Does the air pressurization system, super rugged shell, and ATV make this thing ideal for life as a martian?
Love the design. It's a vehicle, specifically a truck. A simple geometry is practical and applausable for most of cases.
Those who can't accept the anesthetic couldn't accept current iPhone design in if they are in 2005 either.
The video seems to have been taken down from official Tesla spots, so here's a mirror.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwvDOdBHYBw
The overall feeling of this truck's design transports me back to when I was a small boy dreaming up my ideal adventure vehicle and drawing it out in my school notebooks.
It makes me want one just to satisfy my inner child. :)
Two things just occurred to me: 1) The built in air compressor is so it can maintain cabin pressure in space. 2) The shape might have some optimum cylindrical packing arrangement for starship's cargo bay.
I've seen this vehicle before, in the 2018 film 'Upgrade': https://www.imcdb.org/v001169007.html
The car looks like the car from a B or C level scifi direct to DVD movie :)
Looks cooler than the FJ Cruiser and the Wrangler!
Now if only my wife will be seen in one, we'll be able to tow a travel trailer and drive on the beach guilt-free!
(But how do we back into a super charger while towing?)
Happy the GPU which will have to render that in the next Gran Turismo.
Late 2021 delivery of the dual motor, late 2022 of the trimotor model
For some reason it strongly reminds me of the drop ship tank from Aliens.
https://www.imcdb.org/v040477.html
Curious why there isn't a Founders Series on this car -- full prepayment (on a loaded config) for first-in-line position, which helps them with cashflow (a major issue for Tesls).
What is the visibility like from that angular cockpit, I wonder?
It would be cool if military vehicles looked like this though.
I'm getting a strong "Homer Simpson's car" vibe from this. I'm rooting for Tesla but this... I wouldn't even want to ride in it.
Everyone thought this thing was a joke and waiting for the real truck reveal esp after all the laughing and smashing of the windows. Next day all of us wants one.
Rumours are this will be folded rather than pressed...
Is there a source for this? I'd press parts if I were designing it - unless you want welds showing at the corners!
Motortrend are saying this (They had access to it back in September).
It's going to drastically reduce production costs.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pi...
I don't agree - as soon as you need to make more than one fold in a bit of steel, then pressing becomes cheaper in volume.
People fold prototypes because the press dies are expensive to make, but when made, a press can fold all the edges at once.
Even cheap washing machines are all pressed steel.
Reminds me of a Syd Mead design or something from Car Wars.
Looks like that RV prop "Ark II" from that 70 s scifi show ... ex BMW flame surfacing car designer Chris Bangle would be proud of so much ugly.
Cybertruck's target niche market = thugs, gangs, & drug lords. Why? 9mm bullet proof, faster than a cop car. Can carry everything and hide it.
It’s the frikkin Batmobile! I want one. I will never actually buy one because a) $$$ and b) I live in a city with small roads. But it looks awesome. No
Throw in Delorean-style gullwing doors for good measure. It's already stainless steel. And vertical takeoff and landing. SpaceX can do that too.
Reminds me of the “Homer” upon laying first eyes on it.
I've seen that meme floating around on Twitter, but I don't get it.
The "Homer" was a car with a million little crazy details added onto it. It was bubbly and green.
This thing has all the details removed from it (it doesn't even have side mirrors!), and it's flat and black and gray.
There's zero resemblance? Is the joke just that "it's different from other cars"?
Cybertruck you say? and that font? Let me guess, release date somewhere around April 16 2020? Is this a Cyberpunk 2077 cross promotion gimmick?
I think the most underrated part of the presentation was the Tesla ATV - I think that might end up being Tesla’s most successful product yet.
their demo of it reminded me of some of Apple's product demos when things didn't "just work" like Apple likes to brag that they do. Steve Jobs actually made them funny to watch. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-50513294
That design looks like straight from the Tron movies, which perhaps is just the aesthetic and associated nostalgia Tesla is aiming for here.
I like to imagine the name is a homage to Cyberduck.
I’m so glad they went with a unique design. This looks so crazy it will likely be talked about for days and months to come. And I want one!
Elon: "... and its bulletproof!"
Hardware Eng #1 turns to Hardware Eng #2: "Wait... where does it say that in the spec we received..."
Looks horrendous to me, but I guess many people love it.
Also, "truck" doesn't seem appropriate at all, maybe "tugcar" would be?
I didn't even realize there was an announcement event. Don't care. Take my $100. This is the beast-mode version of a Model S.
I don't really own a car, I don't really consider myself "a car guy" but I want this truck, it's beautiful and awesome.
Bravo.
They are going to sell an insane amount of these.
Even if the target market fails, they’ve got a fallback. These things are going to be on Hollywood sci-fi sets for years to come!
> near infinite mass
What is "near infinite"? Ten?
I'm not a fan of this marketing faux pas. Also, the carousel moves too fast for me to read it.
Not a huge fan of the design. But, it just seems like it would be a horrible truck. How are you suppose to get to the bed?
I sense a disturbance in the force, like the voices of millions of inner nine year olds howling in ecstasy (myself included)
This is dystopian future car, how many sci fi movies have we seen with cars looking like this? I.e. Ghost in the Shell
It is amazing how weird and poorly produced these things are. The cheesy outfits, the terrible lighting, the window demo failure. Its like they go out of their way to cut corners and look unprofessional to strike some kind of authenticity note. Like, obviously they're not faking the demo, or the windows wouldn't have broken. And the mumbling fumble/botched-transition to the ATV...
VH1 interns could produce a better event than this.
Sure would be a shame if the Internet reacted to this like they did when screenshots of the new Sonic movie came out.
Pity HN doesn't support polls, I would loved to have seen a number on the people who love/hate this design.
Given Tesla has axed their capex to almost nothing due to their liquidity crunch it is highly unlikely this ever gets built. Same with the semi truck.
These “Product” unveils are designed to pull in cash deposits to fund current expenses and massive cash incineration, not future development.
This will likely never be built and if you are thinking of giving Tesla a deposit for anything they currently are not producing I implore you to look at Tesla’s balance sheet.
$100 pre-order would be a rounding error in their balance sheet.
If I could only make one goofy comment on HN every week, I'd probably say this looks like a giant lego truck.
If it's really made out of stainless, with those angles wouldn't it fail on pedestrian collision tests?
The 80's called, they want their truck back.
Jokes apart, what is the target demographic and what about the unusual aesthetic?
Let's be honest, Cybertruck (CYBERTRK) is one hell of a name, compared for example to Model T or Model B.
I'm sorry, but this looks terrible... I can't imagine seeing the average person driving this at all.
I cannot imagine buying a truck without racks for lumber or ladders or paddle board. I use my rack so much.
Speaking of stealth, how well will self driving autonomous cars be able to detect a Cybertruck on the road?
I really dislike how trucks look, but this one actually looks pretty cool.
Not something great for our European roads though.
This looks like something out of Total Recall, which maybe makes sense since Musk is obsessed with Mars.
I love it. It looks like the future, but also reminds me of Johnny Cab from Total Recall. Still love it.
I’m excited for it, though I guarantee the end result will look a lot different than what is presented.
Is there any country other than the US where people see a truck as a viable option to drive around in?
Where on earth does one get tires for septagon wheel - I wonder how much those will cost to replace.
Most likely, those are just aesthetics and are more like large hubcaps over a round tire.
Terminator, Mad Max, Robocop, Batman.
It's no coincidence the hull of the Starship will also be made of cold-rolled stainless steel.
I wonder if part of the motivation for this design is to test components for future mars rovers...
The design is such that it's hard to tell if the video on the website are real or animations.
The tent/camping mode looks cool. I’m excited to make an autonomous truck + RV my next home.
The best thing about this is you can put your gas powered generator in the bed to recharge. :)
I really do wish they had a landing page for the ATV. It was the best part of the presentation.
When I was a kid I had a phone that kinda looked like a car. This car looks like that phone.
This is what happens when you let Elon binge watch James Cameron movies and then StreetHawk.
We know Elon is worried about AI. I think the plan is to blend in when Skynet takes over.
Anyone think the window breaking in the demo was done on purpose - for the media points?
Not really a fan of the design - too rough for this world and too fragile to survive Mad Max ;)
Plenty of Tesla design concepts online that were way better: https://www.behance.net/gallery/78909965/TESLA-Pickup
Get into my Cybertruck with my Cybiko to take a trip through Cyberspace. Whoosh.
The tri motor version will go from 0-60mph in under three seconds. That's insane!
$100 preorder seems.... quite low? I wonder how many serious buyers are reserving one.
The first thing i thought of...its the Delorian. I want one and i want this to succeed
It looks like a bullet proof DeDelorean and that's not intended as a complement.
I think I have to change my graphics card, I see very few polygons on this website.
It looks like it was designed by someone who saw an 80s movie set in the year 2019.
loving the very ugly, but so different design. But are those LED headligths legal?
Is it just me, or does that thing not look like a rip off of Paloma from Megarace?
I need to drive one of these around Dallas, Texas with truck nutz on it.
Low-poly car from the 80s' sci-fi :D
I didn't expect future to materialize like this...
Where do I hang the back plate?
Also, the ugliest car ever. Worse than the latest Batman car.
GMC just got pwned with their electric smooshed truck reveal earlier today.
I get wanting something that looks different, but difference just for difference's sake is no virtue.
I think if I had to render the term "alt-right" in vehicular form, it would look something like this. It seems to me an disturbingly accurate reflection of our polarized times.
So you're saying it's "too alt-right", right? Isn't the alt-right also the group that doesn't believe in climate change? So they'd never adopt an electric vehicle based on its virtue of being electric. What if the vehicle is made specifically to appeal to them, though, and just happens to also be electric?
I don't know whether your premise is correct or not, but if it is, this might be genius.
I think you've got it precisely right.
> "alt-right" in vehicular form, it would look something like this
Strange, I thought the alt-right meme was that brutalist design was a Marxist demoralisation psy-op; surely an alt-right design would be more akin to the Beetle (as partly conceptualised by Hitler).
Beetles? Heck no, those are for hippies!
I'm thinking they go more Futurist than Socialist. And if they did fall for a style they previously claimed to despise, well, it wouldn't be the first time they were caught in a contradiction.
That being said, as this truck is not made out of concrete, I'm not sure the brutalist label applies. ;-)
Apparently Blade Runner was set yesterday.
Well, we're there folks. Just needs VTOL. ;)
Anyone got a link to the original video of this event?
Seems to have vanished from the net.
It reminds me of the robot dogs from the Black Mirror episode Metalhead.
I like the car but it seems really dangerous to pedestrians in a crash.
the car would look 70% better if they remove a triangle of steel between the bowl and the end of the roof. i think i am warming up to the design after seeing more pics in better lighting.
I'll stick with my 50 year old cars thanks - this looks shite.
I would rather buy a Bollinger Motors truck, this is just too ugly
So weird and terrible looking that I love it. My pre-order is in!
Designed to appeal to all the people who grew up playing Elite.
All of the aesthetic stuff aside, the high sides next to the bed make it completely useless as an actual pickup truck. This is what it looks like when a bunch of people who have never done manual labor in their lives designs a truck.
I have mixed feelings right now, but this thing is going to grow on a lot of people. It just looks... badass.
EDIT: It's like the first time I saw The Rock. I thought his head was too small and his face was stupid. Now I love Dwayne Johnson.
What. Seriously. WHAT. Also, RWD? This thing breaks my brain.
What is the name of ailment which makes someone buy trucks?
tsla down almost 7% i told you it was ugly. How hard would it have been to make it not ugly. Just use some sweeping lines, add some more polygons!
Looks like a stainless steel origami opression vehicle.
is this safe? modern cars are designed to absorb impact and not transfer it to passengers. this sounds like it is a rigid metal car like a vw beetle
As a pickup it looks worthless, as a futuristic military transport that checks off a bunch of my childhood fantasies I wish I could afford one but at more than a year's gross income... sigh.
The opposite aesthetic direction from the Roadster.
i don't think i've ever seen a car that's hideous from every single angle. did something happen to the tesla design team?
Is it me or it looks like a proposal for US Army ?
I laughed at the Model Y unveil, but looking at this I am experiencing "Sam Neill 'In the Mouth of Madness' " paroxysms of laughter. What an ugly hunk of garbage.
Woah. I think it it's actually pretty cool!
I don’t even need a truck, I am driving a Prius Prime (32 miles battery + gas tank) today and I want to buy this. The look, the specs, the design of the website, I love it all!
This looks like the result of a bet gone wrong.
there's no way this is what the production version will look like. US still requires side-view mirrors, for instance.
Whats with that logo? Is tagging cool again?
This thing is so fucking quirky I love it.
> With the ability to pull near infinite mass
Wait, what?
The edges are way too sharp for EU regulations I guess. Don’t think this model will be allowed in the EU. Sharp edges like these do more harm on collision.
I absolutely love the design. I want one.
Suddenly, it feels like the 21st century!
I feel like I just arrived to the future
Suddenly it feels like the 21st century!
flat surfaces, no curved panels.. i wonder how much of that design decision is to reduce production costs?
i wonder if this truck car will be just as bad for the other guys it hits as it would be hitting a truck.
Its not a truck its the new mars rover.
The best car design since DeLorean! :)
A distopian car for a distopian world.
Back to the Future reboot incoming...
Can someone with more 3D skills than me please make a video of the Cybertruck smashing though a normal truck ICEing a supercharger bay.
How many of you actually preordered?
Ugly, but cool. That's perfect.
Stealth bomber on wheels. I love it
The design reminds in style old project Boomerang by Ital Design from 1972
https://www.italdesign.it/project/boomerang/
BTW, it is the same company that design famous Back to the Future car DeLorean DMC 12.
https://www.italdesign.it/project/dmc-12/
This will date me, but it reminds me of the vehicle from "Damnation Alley"
Reminds me of the Christian Bale batmobile.
Paint it black and I’m in.
I think US Army will be the main contractor for the pickup replacing Hummer in many cases.
I've read Cyberdrunk, sorry.
If they can get the glass breaking issue figured out, this might be the first truck to make an appearance in SF.
It's so ugly, I want one.
My disappointment is palpable.
This is so ugly i don't even know where to begin. I think it's worse or on par with the pontiac aztek
I can't believe there are so many people in this thread that actually like the design. Just goes to show how insanely nerdy the denizens of HN are.
You can also add that to this type of audience which pretty much sums up what the technical bias of a typical HN reader/commenter really is.
So far it is more like all things:
Linux, Rust, AMD, ThinkPads, Elon Musk, Rick and Morty, Stanford, MIT, Web-Tech, Stripe Design, Mr Robot, Space Travel, Kubernetes, Data Structures and Algorithms, and now Telsa.
Reminiscent of the Delorean
the aluminium surface won't it reflect all the sunlight to others?
What is the shipping date?
Is this even legal to sell in Europe? Looks like it is designed to slice objects on collision.
Looks are often quite misleading when you actually start to investigate collision safety.
With a 6.5s 0-60 time, it won't be smoking too many sports cars on the track.
The tri motor will do sub 3 sec 0-60.
Who buys a truck for this reason?
Apparently you've never heard of rolling coal or proud boys
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I'd love a nimble truck personally. I drive a sporty car but need a utility vehicle so often that buying something I like to drive becomes a regret.
That is the low-end version.
there's a 2.9s configuration option
I love it. Brave step!
This design is so ugly it makes me question my investment in Tesla.
What are they thinking...?
Where is back mirror
Trucla was better.
Looks like Tesla has no clue who the people are that buy trucks
tsla down almost 7%, i told you it was ugly
It looks straight from a 70s sci-fi movie.
love the retracting bed cover
Lots of interesting comments and perspectives in this thread, from the judgmental "trucks are stupid" group (typically outside the US) to "this thing is ugly" reactionaries and everything in between. This is what I love (and hate) about HN. Yet, if you stop and use it as stimulus for though, HN turns out to be a good way to force you to reevaluate your mental models...sometimes.
My first reaction to this truck was along the lines of "this is the very definition of ugly". From there it moved to "well, that was stupid" (the glass). And, slowly, once past the shock, it morphed into "it seems to have lots of practical features". Now I want to see one in person and explore it a bit.
A few random thoughts:
We are in the market to purchase two vehicles within the next, say, 12 months, with one of them likely in the next four months or less. We thought we would go electric...until the fires here in California caused us to rethink things.
Simple issue: The infrastructure for conventional vehicles is ubiquitous. You don't even have to think about the availability of energy at all. Simple example, yesterday one of our cars was down to 7 miles of range left in the fuel tank. This wasn't a big deal at all. There are easily twenty gas stations within that driving distance, if not more. And topping-off takes ten minutes or less total time.
From my perspective, and some might disagree, at the current time the weakest point of any electric vehicle, Tesla or otherwise, is the --and I think I can use this word-- fact that they cannot be relied upon during emergencies. The infrastructure isn't mature and ubiquitous enough to match the degree of reliance one can place on IC vehicles. If your life and that of your family depends on being able to travel, electric vehicles are a bad idea.
Because of this we went from really wanting to transition in to electrics (we even installed a 13 kW solar system in preparation for this transition) to now thinking timing isn't quite right.
A brief comment for those disparaging the "American obsession with large vehicles". I'll just say you likely lack context. I don't own a truck, I've always been as sports car guy. I've probably owned more sports cars than anything else. However, most (all) US cities are very different from European cities. There are no problems with the size of roads, all the way down to business districts and neighborhoods. I've traveled all over Europe and other parts of the world. And, yes, in a lot of the cities and towns I have visited US-style SUV's and trucks would make no sense whatsoever.
Don't think Americans are ignorant or less sophisticated because they are buying SUV's and trucks. If they were not practical there wouldn't be a market for them. It's the same for what we call minivans --not sure if the same term is used in Europe. We have a Toyota Sienna with 220,000 miles on it. We bought it new. It is incredibly practical in the context of family life, home renovations, dealing with our three German Shepherd dogs, going to the lake, going camping, loading it up with friends and family for travel. Form follows function AND needs, and in the US trucks and SUV --large and small-- exist because they are practical, useful and deliver value.
Sure, it is disconcerting to see just one person effectively commuting in a truck. The perspective here is that not everyone is a software engineer, most people have limited financial resources and they can't buy both an efficient small "green-er" vehicle and the truck or SUV they need for family and home use. So, again, they make a choice based on form, function and needs, and if a truck, minivan or SUV make sense, well, that's what they buy, and that's what they drive every day.
Back to Tesla...
One possible perspective on this is that of what I am generally going to put under the umbrella of fiduciary responsibility.
One could rightly argue that coming out with something like this is a breach of that responsibility to investors. Tesla has excellent technology and could become a massive company. The truck market can support millions of units per year in sales just in the US (about 2.5 to 3 million per year). This radical design is, from that perspective, irresponsible. It will capture a very, very small percentage of the 250,000+ trucks per month sold on average in the US. It's a shocker, like the Hummer, but it isn't going to make a dent on overall truck sales. If anything it might signal that Elon isn't interested in growing Tesla beyond a certain level.
These are not decisions you make if you want to beat the other guys at their own game (or even redefine the game). In an industry where historical P/E ratios are in the 10 to 15 range, Tesla will eventually have to face that hard cold reality. Sure, today investors ignore this but, at the end of the day, when everyone is making electric cars and batteries, Tesla might not be able to escape the fact that it will be just another car company. In that context, I think this truck might be an irresponsible waste of an important competitive advantage.
Two of the worst things you can waste in life are time and trust. This offering is guaranteed to waste a ton of time. Years. And trust also. Anyone who wants a "real" or, let's just say "traditional" truck is going to ignore Tesla and assume they are just crazy. There are 250,000 people making a decision to buy a truck EVERY MONTH, and the VAST majority of them are going to laugh at Tesla and move on. It will be year, maybe even a decade, before anyone looks at Tesla as a serious truck company. So, yeah, time and trust wasted, unnecessarily.
I need to see this Tesla thing (that would have been a good name "Thing") but I don't think I am buying one. Next iteration, perhaps.
Is it April first already?
fucking impressive
honestly i think my 4 year old could design a better looking truck
Autopilot?
So my hypothesis is the people who buy stupidly oversized pickup trucks (which generally speaking aren't going to be the people on this site btw) are either crazy gun people, trailer _____, or people who seriously are trying to prove something. For all of these people it's about making a very large very visible and very obnoxious over the top statement. Really can't see how any of that demographic either wants anything "cyber" (although again this site is the wrong place to be making this argument) or anything that isn't just "in your face over the top MACHO". If you imagine the Cybertruck in wood, it looks like a cheap Pinewood derby car. The design looks like something a 3rd grader came up with. It should be redesigned to: a) have an obnoxiously loud (yet completely unnecessary) ENGINE sound; b) have an incredibly obnoxious front grill that emphasizes absolute dominance; c) a bed in the back that's open to the elements (because no one carries stuff there anyway, and being open to the elements is tough); d) be about 3x the size. Nobody wants a pinewood derby car masquerading as a truck imho. I think this will be a huge flop.
Is this for real? That rear slope looks like it will kill headroom in the back.
Looks like a concept car (truck).
Perhaps they intentionally made it ugly so no one would buy this because they can't really produce that many. In the years to come, they'll have expanded manufacturing plus beta tester feedback so they can release one that looks nice. Genius.
Digital Transformation Services - https://www.einfochips.com/blog/a-blueprint-on-digital-trans...
I was hoping for a design similar to the Bollinger. I thought that box look with Tesla battery could be a big hit.
https://bollingermotors.com/
This thing looks like one of those low-poly svgs used while loading the full thing; I keep expecting an actual truck to appear, but no dice.
"'Cybertruck'?" Musk: Draws five lines on whiteboard and walks out
Wow, a car that doesent look like a suppository with a animal face painted on the front.
This has to be a joke. This is 5the ugliest thing I have ever laid eyes on.
How is it that all ~2000 comments are under one discussion thread?
This is what happens when an Aztec mates with a Delorean. This is the biggest boondoggle, maybe ever. The Reliant Robin has more charisma than this thing.
An iconic car with an almost 30-year production run? I'm sure Tesla would be OK with that kind of "boondoggle" on their hands.
The reliant robin is an extremely charismatic, nay nearly iconic car, especially for watchers of Top Gear
Ugly as an sin
helloguys.club
A lot of people are talking about how it looks awesome. I guess they've done their market research to target the audience that wants this. It's looks like 1980s sci-fi threw up and I think it looks terrible for appealing to most of the general population.
They'll probably make their money off of it (with tax subsidies, which is still keeping most of Musk's enterprises afloat .. so we're all paying for it, sadly), but it's because they target the demographic clearly represented in a lot of these comments.
Personally, I think the design looks awful and terrible. I don't even really like the current Tesla with their terrible UI, stupid "touch-screen-everything" and lack of tactile buttons. But whatever, I'm sure it will sell.
i had to double back and check where i came from, as i said out loud to myself “wait, is this a joke?”.
What pisses me of inexplicably is Tesla / elon cuck intentionally showing failures is this some bizzare form of marketing? I believe it certainly is. They should know the strength of their windows and acting like it was a surprise is retarded
Y’all are hilarious. This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. This is straight up a Delorean. God bless these idiots.
Cringe moment of the year when the glass broke
Twice...
Busted armoured windows on stage, live on TV - priceless.
Are the people commenting that this truck is a good product just delusional or trolling?
Are you delusional or just trolling?
Shocking that people can like different things, I know.
Since nobody else has commented on this, I’d like to address the jackass who kept shouting to shoot the car with a gun:
You want him to fire live rounds in a room full of people. Live rounds that we are expecting to ricochet.
Stop watching action movies and go the fuck outside, you absolute unit.
This is a design abomination and a colossal mistake. Like many, I've been a fan of Tesla from the beginning because of the beautiful and tantalizing design language which was backed up with mind boggling performance. It made you aspire for the vehicle. Why would Tesla mess with that formula? This truck is horrendous, an absolute beast. This looks like a high school science project gone bad. I actually thought the whole thing was a joke and I was waiting for Elon to smash it with the sledge hammer at the end to reveal a prince of a vehicle underneath a frog skin. It never happened and I was speechless. Yes, the features and specs were in keeping with Tesla's awe-inspiring tradition. But, I can't say the same for the design. Elon, we're all human beings and we make mistakes. Please fix and re-do. Your company reputation and survival depend on this. I am utterly shocked and extremely disappointed.
Jay K.