Comment by chrissnell
7 years ago
As a truck guy who has owned a lot of trucks and currently owns a 2017 Ram 2500 CTD 4x4 and a Land Rover Defender 110, I'm telling you right now: this is going to kill it. This is the suburban status item of 2022.
I want to buy this right now. This has nearly the towing capacity of my Ram and will smoke my wife's Audi on the track.
> As a truck guy who has owned a lot of trucks and currently owns a 2017 Ram 2500 CTD 4x4 and a Land Rover Defender 110, I'm telling you right now: this is going to kill it.
We'll see.
If it does kill, the looks won't be a problem, they'll be an asset - a more extreme version of the Prius.
But if it doesn't, a lot of people will blame the look.
This demographic will love the look. Have you seen pickups lately? The Big 3 have been chasing an industrial aesthetic for years. This was a very bold move and I feel very strongly that this will shake up the market.
The specs are a truck lover's dream. Most pickups are driving office dudes like me to our office jobs every day. We hate the gas mileage but we love the look and we want something powerful enough to tow the boat or ATV hauler on the weekends. This truck claims it can do that AND beat a Porsche off the traffic light AND never have to visit a fuel pump again.
Have a model Y on order... was waiting to see what this would look like as I've got an older truck I'm kind of sick of maintaining and I fall square into "the demographic" you speak of. This is maybe the ugliest truck I've ever seen in my life. I desperately wanted Tesla to come out with a 3/4 ton frame and a semi-normal looking truck. Instead... this. This is 100% NOT what the big 3 have been chasing, and this isn't shaking up the market. I just hope it doesn't bankrupt Tesla in the process... Here's hoping the final product looks a LOT different than what they had on stage tonight...
This thing is Pontiac Aztec bad.
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Can I ask where you are located, or what kind of truck owners you know? I can't see anyone, like 0% of the rural owners I know, thinking this truck looks good. It's crazy, I would be embarrassed to be seen in it.
There are other electrified truck companies bringing up their models. Maybe even faster than Tesla can get this thing out. Ford is already testing their electrified F150's. Current owners will just buy their same brand when it becomes electrified.
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The Tesla truck thing has always surprised me a bit since it feels like a misreading of the audience.
When I think of the people that like big trucks, I think of the people blocking super chargers or blowing black smoke out the back onto Teslas. People that hate EVs because of a tribal political affiliation. This is the group that cares about status and argues over Ford vs. Chevy.
Outside of those people are the ones just doing regular work and I think they just want a regular looking truck to put things in (not the market).
Honestly don’t know the market for this one. I love my model3, but I’m unsure of this.
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> Most pickups are driving office dudes like me to our office jobs every day.
Given the price of that thing, you should just buy a second, smaller electric car (maybe even a Twizy). If you care about your CO2 emissions, it's better to give up looking manly and driving like a madman at traffic lights.
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Every time Musk starts taking pre-order $ on a new model, it comes out ultimately at least a year later, the low priced option gets scratched, and the specs get curtailed some.
Not trying to rain on your parade or anything. But be real. The $49k model S never materialized. The $35k Model E never materialized. This thing won't either. Unless you got the $$ to blow on a top-end model, don't expect much.
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This is a truck designed for people who don't need a truck but would like to appear as though they do. It's like a fake status symbol of being working class for someone who buys 40k plus vehicles but wants to downplay their wealth. Basically for the Range Rover crowd except they put a bed on it to show how serious they are about its truckness.
Can't really see anyone who relies on their truck for actual work wanting something like this and the product page is clearly geared towards more outdoor recreational types (Eg. Pics of the camping top extension and towing a weird looking camper or futuristic dirt bike). Compare to Ford and Chevy marketing.
I wouldn’t be so quick to assume the Cybertruck look is what most pickup owners are going for. Maybe eventually...
In the near term Bollinger Motors[1] has electric pickup and SUV models that look a lot more like rugged high end trucks. Granted they cost nearly twice as much, but these are all luxury vehicles and people already spend 100k on a Ford Raptor.
1: https://bollingermotors.com/
> This demographic will love the look.
You must hang out with some very atypical truck guys. Most would not be caught dead in an electric vehicle, and certainly not in something that looks like this.
Do people in the rural/suburban US really tow that much that often? Seeing the number of trucks just doesn’t make sense (especially given how few are towing anything). Is there a little measure of lifestyle signaling or macho involved in truck ownership, or towing capacity comparison?
Car companies don't limit themselves to selling people a car based on what their life is like now, people have already got something that lets them do the things they currently do.
They can market it based on what their life could be like if they brought the car. Perhaps in vague, emotional terms.
You too could be kayaking/mountain biking/skiing through picturesque countryside with your pretty, athletic friends... if you buy a Brand X SUV. Be confident in any situation. Whatever, wherever, whenever. Adventure starts here. Built tough. Driven by dreams. Past the pavement. Built for city roads and no roads.
Spot on, this is also while many people back in the early 2010s were so turned off of laptops without CD drives, they might not ever use it, but they want to know they can. (ev dn through they didn't realize the tradeoff was battery)
There is an exceptional explanation of this in the Adam Curtis documentary "The Century of Self." In the 20th century, advertizers pivoted from marketing on the basis of need to the basis of identity.
Its like asking if people in US really shoot to defend themselves that often?
Nah I think that’s a more valid “I don’t know when I might need it”-situation. I never felt that “who knows, I might need to tow a sailboat any day now”-feeling though.
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I know several people with campers, horse trailers, car trailers, boats, etc. Most aren’t maxing out their towing capacity, but if you’re driving through any mountains, you’ll want to be well within those limits unless you want a white knuckle experience.
I have a Silverado diesel truck which I inherited. I don't tow often, but I do use it a lot for landscaping work -- hauling mulch, brick, and lumber in and yard waste out to the recycling center.
I do that with my small car and a trailer (Granted, I can only do around 500kg/1000lb on it, but it's usually enough). It's at least definitely worth the economy given how far I drive between every time I need to dump/tow.
Its going to sell well, like every Tesla. I suspect that it won't sell well to people who buy trucks for their actual utility, but you're right that this thing will totally be a status symbol; just not among people who would utilize its capabilities.
Just look at the success of the G-Wagon among white LA uurbanite-types. No one cares about the utility. It just looks weird and gives off this vibe of "I work! Trust me! Look at my utilitarian car!" That's who this will sell to, and it will sell well.
The G-Wagon is a very high end luxury SUV with a huge profit margin. As such, MB can afford to sell only a handful. But at the advertised price, the Cybertruck offers no such margin. It'll surely will be a money-loser for Tesla which they'll have to sell like F150s for a decade just to break even.
The Cybertruck isn't about profit. It's about making Tesla's name synonymous with shock and awe.
Wow, really? I feel the completely opposite.
I also consider myself a "truck guy". In my entire life, I've owned a single car. I had it for about a year when I got up one morning, drove to the dealership, bought a new Dodge (basically the same as yours, except 1500), and told the girlfriend she could have the car (hers had seen better days).
I would not be caught dead in one of these.
(Disclaimer: I'm a Harley riding country boy from the midwest, probably not Tesla's major demographic anyways!)
So you're going to downgrade from a 3/4 ton frame to something that falls between a dodge dakota and ram 1500...
In other words you overbought and don't use the diesel or the 3/4 ton frame? Because this is definitely NOT a replacement for that.
The vast majority of SUVs and trucks are bought to signal some sort of status or affiliation to a group. Just look at how clean these vehicles are. And some of the brands. Porsche SUV. Mercedes pickup.
The people who actual use these class of vehicles for real have mud splashed over the vehicle and extra cans of petrol. They aren’t going to buy an unproven vehicle that you can’t refuel.
They’ll probably make a killing with the Cybertruck.
>In other words you overbought and don't use the diesel or the 3/4 ton frame?
I think you just described 80% of truck owners.
99%
95%. Myself included.
Let some reverse marketing lose:
Cybertruck: Not Your Urban Cowboy’s Truck
The trimotor version claims to tow 14000+. A 2019 Ram 2500 tops out at around 19K, but my 2017 is a little less. The 2019 F150 tows about 11K.
This truck is no Dodge Dakota. This sits between a half-ton and 3/4-ton truck.
I suspect the electric motors will - in practical terms - tow vastly more than gas or diesel trucks.
and they will get the energy back going downhill.
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The single motor version is 7,500 lbs - almost exactly the same as a Dodge Dakota.
The Tri-motor is 14k lbs, a 2019 F150 is 13,200 lbs. https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/2019/features/capability/f1...
I stand by my comment, this thing falls between a dodge dakota and a ram 1500.
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I am not sure if this will become a status symbol, but I 100% agree that that is the market it is going for.
I know three people who own a pickup (one in commercial construction, one who is a big animal vet, and one who has a horse farm). This does not appear to be designed for those people at all.
However, I think it could appeal to the same people who wanted a hummer. Driving it is just overtly confrontational. It will be fascinating to see whether there is a market for exactly this though, because Tesla is supposed to be environmentally friendly, and the people who bought hummers clearly didn't care about that (at the time, at least).
Re: Hummer H2 and H2 Truck, except it has an option with 2.9s 0-60!!¡ It will be a staple.
By track you mean drag strip because mass and high C of G are going to make this thing difficult to corner/handle.
Why would it have a high centre of gravity? Wouldn't the battery pack be most of the mass and live right at the bottom?
The model S has a ground clearance of 6 inches and a center of gravity of 17.5 inches. This thing has a ground clearance of 16 inches. Assuming similar weight distribution, that's a center of gravity of 27.5 inches. Compare that with:
BMW 3 series: 20 inches Subaru BRZ: 18.1 inches Porsche 911 GT3: 17.9 inches
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Your wife drives an Audi that can't do better than 0-60 in 6.5 seconds?
Also.. tracks have turns. Low center of gravity helps, but this thing will probably weigh 3-4x as much as a sporty car. Even the Model S has weight comparable to a minivan. My guess is a Subaru BRZ could beat this around many tracks.
This is a cool truck and all, and I hope Tesla makes more exciting designs like this, but I'm tired of people thinking that Teslas are performance cars just because they have torque. Tesla has yet to make anything that interests me at the prices they charge.
>>Your wife drives an Audi that can't do better than 0-60 in 6.5 seconds?
How is that surprising? Unless you go for the really expensive ones with top-spec engines, you're normally looking at 7-8s to 60mph. As an example, the Q3 can be had with 6 different engines, and only the range-topping 45 TFSI breaks the 6.5s barrier at 6.3s to 60mph. All other engines are slower.
A1 can be had with 3 different engines, and the fastest one does 0-60 in 7.7s.
Really, the only Audi where <6.5s to 60mph is "standard" is the A8, with the slowest engine being the 50 TDI that does 0-60 in 5.9s. The second model in line, the A7, starts with a 40TDI that does 0-60 in 8.3 seconds.
>How is that surprising?
It's pretty surprising because the comment seemed to imply that the same Audi might also end up on a track.
> Your wife drives an Audi that can't do better than 0-60 in 6.5 seconds?
Not too surprising. According to [1], the A3 and A4 mostly have 0-60 times worse than 6.5s. You've got to get up to the recent A6's to beat that.
[1]: https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/audi-0-60-mph-tim...
The A1s and A3s I see on that list seem to beat 6.5s.
Also it’s a bit weird to compare super entry level 1l audis to this. They’re in a weird segment with lots of compromises.
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At 6000 pounds and a high CoG, this thing is going to handle worse than most ladder frame trucks. And that's bad.
It's also going to have truly awful front and rear visibility. Long windshields are invariably difficult to live with, creating a hothouse interior on any day without clouds. Once you add appendages to make this legal (side mirrors, rear center brake and tail lights, headlights and turn signals) much of the bold charm of the original concept truck (which is all this is) will be lost.
I agree the design is refreshingly bold. But lots of concept cars in the past initially took fans by storm only to fade into the mainstream by the time they shipped. I'll be very impressed if a design this striking can maintain its visual impact all the way through production.
The tri motor does 0-60 in <2.9
Fair enough, but that still doesn't make it a track car.
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Love it or hate it seems to be the case here - not many fence sitters. Been reading TMC and FB Tesla Owners group the past hour and reactions are I’d estimate about 80% negative.
Also a truck guy here, and totally concur. I reserved mine within 30 seconds of seeing the site.
I agree and think this could possibly replace many SUVs in suburban areas. 6 person seating is another great selling point for many, just look at all of the third row vehicles like the Honda Pilot. The base price of the Cybertruck is similar to a Pilot. Which would you rather drive?
Agree. I'm in love.
isn't the electric-grid dependency completely antithetical to the ownership of an off-road, off-civilization vehicle ?
(also, honestly this design is a fugly tin can. Elon musk is generally going through a tin can phase (starship etc)). I wouldn't bet on many sales for this, but it's still interesting to see something so different
Mad Max notwithstanding, you can only store gasoline less than a year, so it's not like the alternative is really any less reliant on civilization.
People who truly care about that will likely be using diesel instead.
500 miles is fairly substantial range. I can see this being useful for a very wide variety of use cases, but obviously not those longer-term multi-day excursions into the wilderness.
That said, it is a truck, and maybe someone (perhaps even Tesla) will develop a modular LNG/propane/diesel generator unit you can put into the back of the truck for purposes of range extension. I realize this is inefficient, not environmentally friendly, and going in the opposite direction of what the electric car is supposed to do, but its also only applicable in those extreme edge cases where you need to be away from the grid for days or weeks.
You can also easily google that photograph of a Mitsubishi MiEV being charged on the roadside by a Honda gasoline generator. That needs to be scale up a little bit, but it's possible to charge electric cars like that - inefficient, but enables driving out of the range of the electric grid.
However, 99 % of drivers of a "truck" like this will be commuting between a suburban home and an office.
For the one lap until it overheats, or until this pig needs to hit an apex.
It looks like something my son would have designed when he was 5.
As someone looking at a Tacoma TRD Pro or Ram Power Wagon this thing just shattered my midsize vs 2500 internal debate.
Your wife races her Audi at a track?
Really weird if you read that post and that was your only take-away.
> This is the suburban status item of 2022.
Yeah I don’t think so. Trucks are not suburban status items. This is more like the El Camino of 2022.
> Trucks are not suburban status items.
Have you ever been to Texas?
Or pretty much anywhere outside of urban centers... and even there, many in the South, West, and Midwest US have giant trucks (big enough they don't fit in a standard garage) in their urban centers.
They're definitely a suburban status item in much of the West of the US.
> suburban status items
I have found the single stupidest thing in this thread.
Only thing that is missing from this comment is a disclaimer about you holding TSLA stock.
Hacker News never fails to amuse.
Will they be able to survive until then with this though? Because I seriously doubt it.
$100 initial deposit is to show wall St demand. That will keep borrowing costs down.
Oh boy, you aren't going to make friends here. Upvoting you just to mitigate the damage.
Is this satire or are rich car people really this insufferable? This may be the best/worst comment I've ever seen here. The level of status projecting and suburban truck guy cringe is through the roof.